PC+Caiman DAC = Clicking noise at right channel output

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Originally Posted by sum1

If you are interested on hearing what the click is like i've uploaded a recording of my caiman output http://www.mediafire.com/?ynninzwlj3j
You can hear the click at around 0:13, 0:15 and 1:01 mark. That recording was done with USB -> caiman connection.

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You're sure it isn't in the (original) recording? With speakers I had to listen close up. The most prominent click seems to be the one about 1 minute in. I decided to go back to headphones to check this. I also reversed the phones as I think my left ear may be more sensitive. I agree that there are clicks, though the piano itself sounds clangy, and there are other noises going on in the recording - maybe pedalling. These are very obvious after the click at about 1 minute. I did wonder if there wasn't a click on the other channel too, and of course there are clicks at the end of the snippet. You seem to find them annoying, and I wouldn't disagree that they are predominantly on the right channel during the music.

Do you only get the clicks during music? I suppose once you know they're there you do listen for them - and, yes, they do start to get annoying.

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Originally Posted by dave2010

You're sure it isn't in the (original) recording? With speakers I had to listen close up.

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It is exactly like what I hear on my system.

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Originally Posted by sum1

Martin,

Did you say that you also have problem playing redbook file in 24 bit output mode e.g 24/44.1khz? If so can you try to use a resampler and set it to 48khz. I dont know why but currently resampling to 48khz fixes my clicking problem.

Oh and i tried my desktop computer ancient ac97 based coax spdif out to the caiman and this works fine as well. Cant try 24 bit file though on ac97 due to incompatibility.

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You're right, it works! Thanks for the tip. But anyway this is curious, and it still does not work with 96 kHz. I wonder if Mr. Beresford will comment on this.

Martin.

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Originally Posted by dave2010

You're sure it isn't in the (original) recording?

Do you only get the clicks during music? I suppose once you know they're there you do listen for them - and, yes, they do start to get annoying.

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Yeah the noise is definitely not in the recording as i can definitely rewind back to that spot and the click noise will come up at a different place.
I dont think the click noise is there when you are not playing a music which i believe the dac will automatically mute itself

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Originally Posted by MaCs

You're right, it works! Thanks for the tip. But anyway this is curious, and it still does not work with 96 kHz. I wonder if Mr. Beresford will comment on this.

Martin.

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Glad to hear that the workaround works for you as well. It would be interesting to hear as well from Stan what the explanation of it would be.

I am no driver and software expert, so I don't know how the PC processes the data, especially at higher data density as in the case of higher bitrate files. What I can say however is if a 0 or a 1 is incorrectly translated or sent from the PC to a DAC, the D to A converted waveform at that moment in time is going to sound different. It is more likely to sound as a click.

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Originally Posted by sum1

I dont think the click noise is there when you are not playing a music which i believe the dac will automatically mute itself

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How about playing white or pink noise to stop the muting, then hear what comes above the noise floor?

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Originally Posted by dave2010

How about playing white or pink noise to stop the muting, then hear what comes above the noise floor?

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Also try generating a silent .wav files in Audacity or some other audio editing software at various sample rates etc and try playing them. It sounds daft but I think this will cause the DAC to un-mute as it should actually be receiving data, just a very small amount. If you still get clicks over this then at least you know it's not a bandwidth issue.

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Originally Posted by StanleyB

I am no driver and software expert, so I don't know how the PC processes the data, especially at higher data density as in the case of higher bitrate files. What I can say however is if a 0 or a 1 is incorrectly translated or sent from the PC to a DAC, the D to A converted waveform at that moment in time is going to sound different. It is more likely to sound as a click.

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Does a DAC usually have some error correction or something in it to handle these data anomaly? i'm thinking of maybe the reclocking module inside the caiman doesnt like spdif signal generated from certain devices.

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Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy

Also try generating a silent .wav files in Audacity or some other audio editing software at various sample rates etc and try playing them. It sounds daft but I think this will cause the DAC to un-mute as it should actually be receiving data, just a very small amount. If you still get clicks over this then at least you know it's not a bandwidth issue.

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Thats a good idea. i might try that once i figure out how to create the silent .wav :)

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Originally Posted by sum1

Does a DAC usually have some error correction or something in it to handle these data anomaly?

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No. Error correction is done at the CD or PC side. Look up Reed-Solomon error correction.

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Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy

Also try generating a silent .wav files in Audacity or some other audio editing software at various sample rates etc and try playing them. It sounds daft but I think this will cause the DAC to un-mute as it should actually be receiving data, just a very small amount. If you still get clicks over this then at least you know it's not a bandwidth issue.

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I manage to create a silent.wav file and when i try to play it back i hear no clicks at all. I am not sure if this silent.wav file actually bypasses the dac mute mechanism as i dont seem to hear the small chirping sound that usually comes out when you start/stop/change music tracks.