Does speaker size matter!

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Originally Posted by Marco

Perhaps in some cases that's true, Dimitri (again one must be careful not to fall into the trap of abolutes), but I can assure you that the midrange on my Tannoy Monitor Golds (along with sheer scale) is one of their major attributes. Like anything else in hi-fi, it's all to do with implementation.

The Tannoys in Lockwood cabinets are superior in that area to any other 'conventional' speaker I've heard so far. Indeed, they are miles better in that repect to the 3-way Spendor SP100s they replaced - one of the BBC designs for broadcasting/monitoring purposes famed for its midrange neutrality, or indeed any other 3-way speakers I've heard so far :)

Marco.

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Marco, I'm sure your amps are truly wonderful, but they're still *only* 30WPC, which means that the Spendors you had were probably clipping the amps on peaks at the levels i expect you listen at. The Tannoys of yours have several db more sensitivity at least, so I suspect your amps are far happier with this and never straining at high levels..

Dimitri, sorry to disagree with you, but so I've been told by speaker designers I knew, the dome ISN'T the best form to use. In fact, the best tweeter form would be a sort of cone/dome with the coil about half way along the profile I understand..

Mid domes, I think, have a very narrow operating range with severe breakup outside of this "ideal." making the things out of beryllium may improve things in the passband, but the supposed Hi-Q resonances outside of this don't bare thinking about, if the doped fabric ATC mid dome behaviour is anything to go by.

Another huge can of worms and it would take a properly experienced speaker drive unit designer to explain it properly with facts to back it up. My sources for countless conversations were Elac/TDL/Musical technology's Clive Gibson and the legend who is Epos/Mordaunt Short/MA/Audiomaster's Robin Marshall..

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Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo

Active amplification doesn't need to take place inside speaker cabinets - surely you know that as an ex-Naim guy?

Get yerself another copper amp (or three!) & get Anthony to wack together a valve crossover for your Tannoys- that would be something to hear wouldn't it?

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I think this potentially could raise the bar even higher if that is possible:lolsign:

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Originally Posted by Marco

Ali,

Believable scale and 'musical realism' (read as: truly extended dynamic range and the highest level of resolution possible from a system and loudspeakers within my financial and room constraints) are as important to me as imaging ability (and other recognised traits of electrostatics) is to you.

I don't often listen really loud, but when I choose to do so, I enjoy the ability to create the (near) effect of a live gig (or acoustic musical performance) in my room without things running out of steam, or worse, sparks flying from the partnering equipment or speakers! ;)



That's it in a nutshell, matey!



Could you expand on this a little? That sounds very intriguing! :)

Marco.

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Yes sure,I've talked about it before.Nick made up a breadboard prototype using 813 valves.This amp drives the electrostatic panels directly from the anodes of the output valves,avoiding the need for either output transformers in the amp,and also step-up transformers in the speakers,as using the right valves will give enough voltage to drive the panels directly.The fact that the prototype was just made up from what he had to hand,and a lot of it was not really suitable,yet the resultant sound was nothing short of amazing,at least in the mids and highs.Bass suffered a little due to using a pair of output transformers from a PP 6550 amp as chokes-the problem being they had far too little iron in them,so were running out of flux when bass notes were called for.I will be having some bespoke chokes made for the amp,probably by Sowter.These will be neither small nor cheap,but will allow the amp to give of it's full potential.

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Originally Posted by DSJR

Dimitri, sorry to disagree with you, but so I've been told by speaker designers I knew, the dome ISN'T the best form to use. In fact, the best tweeter form would be a sort of cone/dome with the coil about half way along the profile I understand..

Mid domes, I think, have a very narrow operating range with severe breakup outside of this "ideal." making the things out of beryllium may improve things in the passband, but the supposed Hi-Q resonances outside of this don't bare thinking about, if the doped fabric ATC mid dome behaviour is anything to go by.

Another huge can of worms and it would take a properly experienced speaker drive unit designer to explain it properly with facts to back it up. My sources for countless conversations were Elac/TDL/Musical technology's Clive Gibson and the legend who is Epos/Mordaunt Short/MA/Audiomaster's Robin Marshall..

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I understand, and your post deserves an accurate answer that I can't give right now. I promise I will detail my arguments soon. ;)

ATC's Billy Woodman would disagree with me as well, but it would be interesting to discuss what we can about these things ;)

The only problem with active valve setups is cost perhaps, power consumption and loads of heat. otherwise I'd say "Go for it..."

One thing I never did hear was three sets of EAR509's driving active 'Briks. One set did very well with the passive ones and Jimmy's three Krell KSA50's also sounded great used this way with the Naim crossover. I'll go as far as to say that by the time Linn mastered the active crossover slopes late in the day, their amps had gone off big time - IMO... By the time I thought Linn had sorted their amps out, the 'Briks were history!

The bottom line...

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there's no such thing as a free lunch

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Well designed and implemented, the small monitor, particularly the active one with a well-integrated sub, offers its advantages. But there are some things it simply can't do, that more speaker surface can. Personally, I prefer multiple small drivers (5 - 7") over big ones, as the big ones don't play as well into the critical midrange. And even when small, excellent midbass drivers are used, I've yet to hear a passive system that has quite the midrange clarity and imaging precision of the best two way actives. On the other hand, I've yet to hear a two-way/sub system, including actives, that had the sense of breadth in the mids that multiple midbass drivers can deliver. It all comes down to choosing your compromises, especially when it comes to transducers.

I realize I've just made a terribly subjectivist argument. I'll leave my credentials at the door...

Tim

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Originally Posted by tfarney

I realize I've just made a terribly subjectivist argument. I'll leave my credentials at the door...

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:stalks: :lol:

Welcome back Tim!

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Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo

Active amplification doesn't need to take place inside speaker cabinets - surely you know that as an ex-Naim guy?

Get yerself another copper amp (or three!) & get Anthony to wack together a valve crossover for your Tannoys- that would be something to hear wouldn't it?

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Hey Marco,
Did you see the above?
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Personally speaking this configuration is what I have had in mind for years as my final goal - transistors on bass & treble, valves on midrange & a valve crossover into some big expressive three-ways.

Hi Chris,

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Get yerself another copper amp (or three!) & get Anthony to wack together a valve crossover for your Tannoys- that would be something to hear wouldn't it?

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Haha - I laughed then as I'm laughing now... Are you gonna treat me and foot the bill, like? :lol:

Nice idea, and I'm sure that it would be possible with some sort of valve amps (as Anthony is no longer making the Copper amp) but I doubt that I'd go there unless I moved to a house with bigger rooms. Trust me the results I'm getting now are more than 'adequate'! ;)

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Personally speaking this configuration is what I have had in mind for years as my final goal - transistors on bass & treble, valves on midrange & a valve crossover into some big expressive three-ways.

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Go for it, baby! If you do it right and get everything to synergise properly, the results could be pretty spectacular :)

Marco.

Marco, the pleasure's all mine shall I write the cheque to you, or direct to Anthony?