I'm not saying you're wrong but that doesn't apply to Zanden, unless you have evidence to the contrary?
Marco.
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I'm not saying you're wrong but that doesn't apply to Zanden, unless you have evidence to the contrary?
Marco.
Hello Ashley
I have read some of your comments on DAC technology and while I have not read all of your posts some of the points you have raised on modern DAC’s are interesting. The Wolfson DAC’s are amongst some of the finest DAC’s available today but as I am sure you appreciate it is not all about numbers and figures. For example, compare the datasheets on the WM8741 to the PCM63P-K or TDA1541 S1 or S2 and I would expect the WM8741 to win on specification. But measurement performance can only give you an outline of what to expect in terms of audio performance, the sound quality of the DAC is not entirely reflected in the measured performance. There are many DAC’s that companies believe are sonically superior to the WM8741 that are now several years old or obsolete, the TDA1541 S1 and S2 are amongst some of them, to stress the point we are not talking about measured performance here but sound quality. There are several manufacturers that have chosen to use older DAC technology as preference, AMR CD-77 http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/Templates/cd77.htmutilised the TDA1541, the CD-77 is has received several glowing review and awards and established performance benchmarks at its price.
Then consider Zanden, a company with serious resources and the choice is the TDA1541 S2, another award winner. Also Audio Notes’s DAC 5 uses the AD1865 an 18-bit DAC from 1999, another reference product for many. Technology has moved on, but the TDA1541 S1 or S2 remains amongst the best DAC ever made, period.
Regards
Mark
I don't agree. We used TDA1541 Crown S1's in a DAC we designed before we started making CD players in '94. We moved to 20 Bit Burr Browns because there were audibly better, not only in the two Hi End Machines that I owned that used them (Yamaha and NEC) but also in properly conducted comparisons, therefore our CD player used them too. They also measured better by an appreciable margin and Burr Brown were World leaders in Digital Convertors at the time. Since then, we've produced six more CD players, each carefully evaluated by us and selected others to make sure that the sound quality had improved. By comparison the TDA1541 sounds muddy, slightly harsh and dull.
As an aside Geoffrey Horn was also using a Sony CDP555ES with the TDA1541 in it and he was so impressed at how much better the Burr Browns were in our CD player that he built a DAC to go into his Sony. Martin helped him with it.
In the past, we never used anything other than DAC manufacturers Demonstration PCBs for comparison, because very few hi fi companies do as well and it's a waste of time trying to find one that's been done properly. Now things have changed, many more DACs are up to standard including some very cheap ones that I've already mentioned. The only problem that remains is there are still amplifiers around that don't like the out of band hash and so give unpredictable results with different DACs.
There are an increasing number of 24 bit recordings available too and 24 bit DACs are a must for professional use.
LOL. Somehow I didn't think you would! ;)Quote:
I don't agree.
I think you're too obsessed with measurements, Ashley, and don't do enough listening. Clue: ears often detect things oscilloscopes don't - and they're not always imaginary, either.
I think we should settle this with a simple listening test. Forget about measurements; I'll bring my Sony transport and DAC down to your factory and we can compare it to any CD player or computer audio source in a system of your choice, and then see what happens. Your top AVI CD player would be good. We can use the ADM9s, too, and kill two birds with the one stone.
Are you up for it?
Marco.
Marco, not only do we listen extremely careful to all the changes we make but we have loads of friends and enthusiasts as well as Pro Audio people who we invite over to do the same.
I'm terribly sorry but the TDA1541 Crown S1 DAC was discontinued many years ago and replaced by Philips with the Bitstream thingy. In Philips CD players (Quad CD66) is sounded pretty Naf but it was OK in others, especially when used with Sony's vastly better digital filter. That was 14 years ago and the things have moved on by a considerable amount. I guarantee that the not only will the twin Wolfsons be better but also the analogue circuitry too. Look up AD797's and compare them whith was was available when your Sony was made. They cost much more than the DACs and there's more of them.
Listening on its own is hopeless because your ears are so easily confused or deceived, the only way to design anything is to back up measurement with listening tests and with comparisons, all done in properly controlled conditions with exact level matches.
Measurements mean everything and we've never ever seen anything that measures wrong and sounds good. We have seen things which haven't been as bad as the measurement suggest though.
Why?Quote:
I'm terribly sorry...
And that automatically makes it better, does it? :lol:Quote:
...but the TDA1541 Crown S1 DAC was discontinued many years ago and replaced by Philips with the Bitstream thingy.
You are under the misapprehension that newest is always best. Also, given your commercial interests, it doesn't suit you to admit that both Mark and I have a valid point.
Let's cut to the chase, Ashley... Are you up for what I suggested? Because it's the only way you'll ever convince me (and other knowledgeable people reading) that you're right. And if I come down, I'm not interested in measurements, because as Mark correctly points out, they don't always tell the whole story - just what you and I think of the results, subjectively.
Anything else more written here on the subject is just froth.
Marco.
Marco - you're welcome to bring your CD player down here and do a comparison, just make sure that I have about a week's warning because we're always quite busy.
I'll even buy you lunch!
Don't expect huge improvements, just more clarity, a little smoother and a bit more space round things. I'd keep your CD player anyway because it's good enough, what you need is better amp/preamps really.
Ok I'll contact you soon and we can arrange something :)
Interesting. Can you tell me where you heard ECS EA-1 monoblocks and the Croft Charisma-X preamp, and in what system? A breakdown of the components used would be good.Quote:
what you need is better amp/preamps really.
Marco.
I've not heard any of it, but I'm willing to bet!
If a 30 watt Valve power amp beats 200 Watt Monos, there's something wrong somewhere. Provided they are properly designed, bigger amps always sound better.
We've got a little 30 Watt Class A amp here we use for sine wave tests and it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as our Amp-Paks which are well over 100 WPC but Class B.
That was bloody obvious! :lol:Quote:
I've not heard any of it...
How much? :eyebrows:Quote:
but I'm willing to bet!
Marco [now planning his next upgrade on the proceeds]
P.S The reason the Yaqin 'won' is because I now like the presentation of an all-valve amplifier combination. You would have undoubtedly preferred the EA-1s, which are without doubt superb solid-state designs.