Justin & Jerry's Hifi Blog

Hi Jerry,

Nice one... Everyone knows my view on graphic equalizers, but the bottom line is that if using one improves some recordings, and in turn increases your listening pleasure, then all the 'golden accepted rules of audio' go out of the window! :eyebrows:

Having said that, I can't help also feel that some of the more, let's call it, 'difficult' recordings are possibly highlighting the limitations of your (as you know yourself) 'bugdet' T/T. Therefore, the equaliser is acting as a 'bandage'.

In order to try and appreciate where you're coming from, could you provide a list of the offending CBS recordings on vinyl? I'll see if I have any, and then report back on how they sound on my rig :)

As an aside, are the classical CBS recordings you're referring to on the same 'orangey' label as the rock stuff is?

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Jerry,

Nice one... Everyone knows my view on graphic equalizers, but the bottom line is that if using one improves some recordings, and in turn increases your listening pleasure, then all the ' golden accepted rules of audio' go out of the window! :eyebrows:

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Yep, I agree that this graphic equalizer thing is a bit left-field even for me! :lol:

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Originally Posted by Marco

Having said that, I can't help also feel that some of the more, let's call it, 'difficult' recordings are possibly highlighting the limitations of your (as you know yourself) 'bugdet' T/T. Therefore, the equaliser is acting as a 'bandage'.

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Hmm. Yeah.
But that does pre-suppose that all recordings are to a high standard and all you need is a good enough playback system to hear it. And I am darn sure that all LP recordings ain't that good, pardner! ;)

To be fair to me, the CBS classical orchestral recordings of the past are reknowned for their thin and bass-light tonality.

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Originally Posted by Marco

In order to try and appreciate where you're coming from, could you provide a list of the offending CBS recordings on vinyl? I'll see if I have any, and then report back on how they sound on my rig :)

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The 2 LPs mentioned so far are the Wagner on CBS 61263 and the Tchaikovsky 6th symphony on DG 2530 774.

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Originally Posted by Marco

As an aside, are the classical CBS recordings you're referring to on the same 'orangey' label as the rock stuff is?

Marco.

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No. The Wagner CBS LP has a red label.

Hmm - can't help but think that the Yamaha 'Natural Sound' logo on that equaliser is a bit of a contradiction in terms - however if it makes an otherwise unlistenable recording palatable then more is gained than lost, I suppose. I think I would have to have one with the spectrum analyser too. Not that it is much use but all those flashing lights going up and down has a sort of seventies retro cool:)

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Originally Posted by Macca

.... I think I would have to have one with the spectrum analyser too. Not that it is much use but all those flashing lights going up and down has a sort of seventies retro cool:)

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Yeah, that's the Akai I have at the moment in the photo - it looks seriously cool! :smoking:

Sadly, the Yammie "Natural Sound" equalizer that is even now making its way Jerry-wards hasn't got any flashing lights at all, as far as I know. :(

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I've just played a lovely Mint LP of the Bach Goldberg Variations performed on a harpsichord - that needed no equalizing at all. :)

I dunno you guys, the number of analogue (and some digital ones as well in the analogue domain) that have been through a Klark Teknik equaliser on its way to the vinyl cutting session or final CD mastering..... Each track on a mixing desk has eq too amongst other things, so a half decent pro equaliser (the KT ones were universal at one time I think) should be pretty transparent to the signal given half a chance :)

Hi Jerry,

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Hmm. Yeah.
But that does pre-suppose that all recordings are to a high standard and all you need is a good enough playback system to hear it. And I am darn sure that all LP recordings ain't that good, pardner! ;)

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I completely agree, and experience proves that, but what the best T/Ts do is both allow one to hear differences in recordings, some of which are better than others, but make all of them at least listenable.

We all have recordings in our collection which sound pants, compared to what the best ones achieve, me included, but none of the former have prompted me to use a graphic equaliser in an attempt to fix the problem.

Good luck with Yamaha - I really do hope that it's the answer, matey. However, if it had been me, I'd have probably gone down the route of buying a phono stage which compensates for the response of the RIAA curves of different record labels, such as the Graham Slee Jazz Club:


http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4413/jazzclub365.jpg


Read more about what it does and the effect of different RIAA curves here: http://www.phonostagepreamp.com/jazz...tagepreamp.htm

Let's make no mistake, what you're describing (and genuinely hearing) is a very real issue (although it annoys some more than others), but in my view, not one which will ever be totally cured by the use of a graphic equaliser, as the nature of the issue you're experiencing is more fundamental.

The added distortion created by a graphic EQ (the integrity of the signal will almost certainly be adversely affected, going through all that extra circuitry), I also feel will be highlighted in a high-end system like yours, especially by your superb, highly revealing, speakers.

Therefore, in attempting to cure one problem, you're more likely just creating another (although I hope for your sake that this is not the way it works out). Far better, IMO, to tackle the problem at source, and IMO the likes of the Graham Slee would do a far better job of that than any graphic equaliser.

You should try and get hold of one and report the results! I'd be very interested to know what happened! ;)

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To be fair to me, the CBS classical orchestral recordings of the past are reknowned for their thin and bass-light tonality.

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I will see if I have any of the recordings you mention, or failing that any other classical recordings I have on CBS, and report back on my thoughts :cool:

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

..... Good luck with Yamaha - I really do hope that it's the answer, matey. However, if it had been me, I'd have probably gone down the route of buying a phono stage which compensates for the response of the RIAA curves of different record labels, such as the Graham Slee Jazz Club

..... Let's make no mistake, what you're describing (and genuinely hearing) is a very real issue (although it annoys some more than others), but in my view, not one which will ever be totally cured by the use of a graphic equaliser, as the nature of the issue you're experiencing is more fundamental......

Marco.

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Yep, a thoughtful and insightful response, as ever, Marco. :thumbsup:

That Graham Slee gadget does look interesting.
:hmm: Part of the issue here is a fundamentally different approach to hifi - and possibly life in general!
I am having, and will continue to have, an enormous amount of fun playing with my equalized LP playback system. It's cost me about £40 for that shnazzy looking Yammie. And I didn't really have to spend anything at all as I already had the kool Akai equalizer.

I shan't obsess about it being the philosophically or technically correct way to go about correcting the recording deficiencies that I hear.
I'll just tweak the knobs and sliders and get an enjoyable sound out of my system.
And you know summat? - I will be really happy with that for quite some time. It really has been a bit of a revelation already.

Damn, if I was exhibiting at Scalford this year I'd have a ball showing off this system!! :D

The only technical aspect that does bother me a mite, is playing back my quite hi-rez LP source thru what is almost certainly crappy 1980's Japanese budget electronics.
Will this degrade the signal? Probably. Have I heard it yet? ... yeah, the bass has lost a little tautness and control. Do I care? Nah, not with the majority of my music choices, especially from my LP collection, deep taut bass really isn't an issue with a lot of classical choons. :)

I'm like the girls in that pop song ... girls just wanna have fun! :carrot:

Jerry

I know exactly where you're coming from. Having taken the time to plot the differences between IEC standard and other vinyl equalisation curves, I created different DSP settings in my Lyngdorf TDA-2200 so that I can, in effect, apply any of the more common corrections from the remote handset, to rather good effect. One day I will find a pre-owned Lyngdorf Millenium ADC, which does the job rather more properly.

It's interesting about the different EQ curves used for vinyl.

As I mentioned before, CBS were (in)famous for the thin and forward sound of their classical LPs for decades.
I wonder if this obviously deliberate 'house sound' was a result of such an EQ choice, and with correct playback the sound would have been full and wholesome. Or perhaps the producers/sound engineers just liked the sound to be that way?

Does anyone know the background to this?

Hi Jerry,

I totally get where you're coming from, so no worries! In that respect, I think you'll really enjoy the Yammy :)

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As I mentioned before, CBS were (in)famous for the thin and forward sound of their classical LPs for decades.
I wonder if this obviously deliberate 'house sound' was a result of such an EQ choice, and with correct playback the sound would have been full and wholesome. Or perhaps the producers/sound engineers just liked the sound to be that way?

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The bit in bold is I believe closest to reality, although I haven't heard it myself. I tend just to accept recordings as they are, be they superb, good or less good, as none that I own are unlistenable.

Perhaps Hugo could expand more on his experiences in this area? :cool:

Marco.