Richard's hi-fi ranting 'Room 101'

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Originally Posted by pure sound

Suppose an individual wants to buy a new turntable. Supopose this person isn't confident enough to fit an arm or cartridge to it. But they want something good to make the most of an existing record collection. Are you suggesting they buy such a thing over the internet? A dealer can help them choose an appropriate arm and cartridge and set it up/install it for them. Suppose they want to buy some large speakers to go with it. We all know that Tannoys sound different to Pro-acs or ATCs, Spendors, ARTS whatever. Are you suggesting that people just choose based on a picture they see on a website? Maybe you are. Personally, I think it'd be a very poor way to choose a system but each to their own. While there are still dealers with the facility to play these options to people then they should be used. I wouldn't expect any such dealer to hold these items as demonstration stock and pay for the building in which they are kept out of the kindness of their hearts. I wouldn't expect them to give their time for nothing either.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion about this but I don't think speakers (in particular) are something that should be chosen from a picture. What's your alternative? Is it better to have to arrange to borrow 2 or 3 large sets of speakers to try at home (incurring all the risks of shipping via couriers) or to be able to go somewhere, hear them and perhaps borrow the preferred pair for a home trial. I know which method I (and most people) would still choose. However, it would seem that in your 'brave new world' such a facility will no longer exist. I suppose the person should just slap some drivers into a box until they find a combination that sounds nice. (I seem to recall that you suggested this as an approach to speaker design elsewhere on this forum!) Sadly, in the real world, most people have no inclination to DIY their hifi, just as most people have no inclination to DIY their cars, cookers or washing machines. There is a place for dealers. They can offer a useful service. I'd agree that many don't but there are some that still do.

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You are supplying an enthusiast market, not a mainstream market, are you telling me that the members here are incapable of making choices and decisions without a retailer telling them what to buy. That is what it boils down to - a retailer can set up a dem to sell what he wants.

You obviously haven't followed the points of my argument over many many posts. This is an enthusiasts market, we now have community that wasn't there in the past so they are now not isolated and just potential victims of the ego and greed that retailers are famous for, and the bullshite of the magazines and reviewers. You lived through the latter period I am talking about and I *know* that you know what I am talking about even though it doesn't suit you to admit it here.

Community can provide all the supposed benefits you put on retailers, which are only in theory and in reality are largely sadly missing. These are the changes I am espousing and have been for a long time and are here in the archive for all to read. Base line we either wake up as manufacturers or on cost tweekers and smell the coffee or we go the way of the dinosaur / retailers.

I see your method as a sub strata in the process that only applies to the conditions and posibilities available now. The Chinese love people like you, they will just copy and undercut you until they kill you. So you have to be ahead of the game to survive. Rely on others for your kippers and they will dry up the supply of your herrings :scratch: :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by Steve Toy

Richard,

When I read your posts I like to think you are playing Devil's Advocate but the one above confirms to me that you are just bitter and twisted. With your rather volatile temperament, it would seem that you have managed in your time to fall out with a lot of dealers/distributors to the extent that direct selling is pretty much your only option. Thus your (jaundiced) views amount to nothing more than soup grapes.

I know exactly how much the A30 would have cost me without the dealer margin but I am very reluctant to buy anything that I cannot listen to first. I received excellent service from Mr. C who travelled the 50 miles from his place to demonstrate the product in my home after I had already spent a few hours down there in theMlvern Hills a couple of weeks earlier. I needed to be sure that it could drive my speakers in my room and work with my system.

I love this amp in stock form as does my wife who told me only yesterday that now CDs she buys no longer go straight to the car, they get played in the home system first. She is not a hi-fi person but in her own words the system is now "involving and enjoyable to listen to." Her initial reaction on setting eyes upon the amp was that it was rather ugly. I'm thus pleased to confirm that she really doesn't judge things solely on appearances...

The mods Anthony will be performing on it in just over a week, all being well, will be fine tuning to add refinement without compromising musicality. The amp will then also become a unique and bespoke item.

With really good hi-fi the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts unless you've got agendas/axes to grind.

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Human nature - no person who has been largely conned or ripped off likes to admit it - IMO.

You may be supplying an enthusiast market. I'm not. I don't mind who buys the products I'm selling. They should be something anyone can buy & use.

You actually dodged the question. How should 'normal' people choose & buy large loudspeakers? By going to bake-offs? Are you serious? Have you been to any? I have. They are fun days out but hardly conducive to good decision making. Ditto HiFi shows. You might become more aware of the available options but they aren't that helpful in forming valid opinions.

With regards to your last paragraph, ...whatever. It's starting to sound like the ramblings of Eric Cantona. (When the seagulls follow the trawler... etc)

Richard, as I said, b&t. There is no way I'd feel comfortable buying hi-fi equipment without at least having the facility to go to really good dealers who genuinely add value to your purchases. Bake-offs are for the privileged few who have been able to network on forums for a few years. I'm one of those few now but I guess at most we could account for around 2 percent of the diminishing hi-fi market.

Direct selling is for those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing or for seasoned enthusiasts who definitely know what they are doing, are in the bake-off loop and who may or may not be into dabbling with DIY. The latter are a tiny minority that could not possibly sustain the industry.

The approach I take has some elements of this mindset else I wouldn't have got into valves in the first place. I guess I'm in the half-way house between the two extremes being one given dealer's disciple and a go-it-alone or networking DIYer. I'd like to think that my own system is unique and yet still able to deliver the musical goods without costing a fortune.

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Originally Posted by pure sound

You may be supplying an enthusiast market. I'm not. I don't mind who buys the products I'm selling. They should be something anyone can buy & use.

You actually dodged the question. How should 'normal' people buy & choose large loudspeakers? By going to bake-offs? Are you serious? Have you been to any? I have. They are fun days out but hardly conducive to good decision making. Ditto HiFi shows. You might become more aware of the available options but they aren't that helpful in forming valid opinions.

With regards to your last paragraph, ...whatever. It's starting to sound like the ramblings of Eric Cantona. (When the seagulls follow the trawler... etc)

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Once again - we are on the cusp but now just over it, the process has not worked through yet. BUT community is changing via the web, look how much change in the last couple of years. Then this conversation would not have been possible, so what is likely possible in a couple of years. This is like going back to the very old days where advice was asked of mates in the pub or conversations with neighbours and friends. Community died in the 70's and is now coming back via the web, it will encompass all things, and the only losers will be the slurpers who rely on information staying secret and only for insiders - the changes are not all here but they are coming.

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Sorry to barge in on your thread Richard. I'll leave it alone now.

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Guy,

Carry on barging. This thread needs balance.

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Originally Posted by Steve Toy

Guy,

Carry on barging. This thread needs balance.

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Balance in this case is relative, it largely depends on how intelligent and grown up you are. (Post, like all my posts, to you and the forum but not directed *at* you, just in case you decide to become hot).

I have never decided I am omnipotent, if I thought that I would become a retailer of reviewer. I am participation in a debate (hopefully).

Richard,

Unlike a couple of uindividuals, your posting rights here are pretty safe (as long as you don't become threatening/abusive) because you at least stay within your designated thread.

This forum does however exist to support the industry and excellence in the reproduction of recorded music. Dealers, even if only a few really good ones remain, are an essential part of that process for most if not all of us.

Those dealers who are put off by Richard's ramblings, don't be. His views can generate stimulating debate that enables you to put your valid points across.

Be assured also that his views are not a reflection of those of the Art of Sound.

hi folks,
will get to replying later, off out to have my sunday dinner;)
richard, il deal with you later:lol:
anthony...

off out to have my sunday dinner


Tell em the truth Anthony your off out to SHOOT it arent you:lol: