Richard's hi-fi ranting 'Room 101'

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Originally Posted by Marco

S'ok, Daddy. The bad men have been banned, and permanently!!



Me! And I couldn't be happier with my (modified) Chinese valve amp. Mind you, by the time I've finished it will be a South Wales one... :eyebrows:

What will we call it? How about the 'Boyo Acoustics Reference AM-2008'? :lol:

Marco.

P.S Anthony, where's that picture you were going to post for Richard to see? Has Rob not got off his arse yet? ;)

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So what is the point of paying ridiculous prices for UK - EU - US ones?

So where are the weaknesses in Chinese bottle amps, I here the glass is OK but can be bettered and that the weak link is the transformers. I presume the output one as the mains one is quite difficult to bugger up.

So if Anthony does this what is the next step, is it sensible for Anthony to contact the manufacturer of his favorite Chinese amp and buy them in himself modify and put a name on it, 'cos basically that is what Puresound is.

Is this the future for the bottle market?

Reechard,

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So what is the point of paying ridiculous prices for UK - EU - US ones?

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None, I guess, unless they're demonstrably better by a significant margin to warrant the extra cost.

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So where are the weaknesses in Chinese bottle amps, I here the glass is OK but can be bettered and that the weak link is the transformers. I presume the output one as the mains one is quite difficult to bugger up.

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Anthony's probably better answering that one, but my experience so far has been that the valves are no more than of average quality, certainly compared to new stock Russian ones like cryo'd Svetlanas, and NOS ones of any origin are in a totally different league.

The large amount of circuit boards inside them is a sonic no-no, as 'proper' valve amps are wired point-to-point, capacitors and bridge rectifiers are generally of poor quality, output transformers could be bettered, and mains transformers are not suitable for UK voltage, certainly in the case of the Yaqin. You do however get a nice high quality chassis!

What must be remembered, though, is that the Yaqin, for example, is available to buy on Ebay for just over £300 DELIVERED to the UK, which is phenomenal value for money. What valve amplifier could you buy in the UK, EU or US for £300? Answer: none!

And even unmodified, replete with crap parts mentioned, they sound remarkably good. Modify them, as I've had done, and will continue to do, and you've got something very special on your hands, particularly when used as a power amp with a high quality valve preamp (they come as an integrated as standard).

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So if Anthony does this what is the next step, is it sensible for Anthony to contact the manufacturer of his favorite Chinese amp and buy them in himself modify and put a name on it, 'cos basically that is what Puresound is.

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I'll let Guy speak for himself, but I don't think that would be Anthony's cup of tea, no matter how profitable it was. I could be wrong, though! No doubt Anthony will be along to add his thoughts in due course...

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Reechard,



None, I guess, unless they're demonstrably better by a significant margin to warrant the extra cost.



Anthony's probably better answering that one, but my experience so far has been that the valves are no more than of average quality, certainly compared to new stock Russian ones like cryo'd Svetlanas, and NOS ones of any origin are in a totally different league.

The large amount of circuit boards inside them is a sonic no-no, as 'proper' valve amps are wired point-to-point, capacitors and bridge rectifiers are generally of poor quality, output transformers could be bettered, and mains transformers are not suitable for UK voltage, certainly in the case of the Yaqin. You do however get a nice high quality chassis!

What must be remembered, though, is that the Yaqin, for example, is available to buy on Ebay for just over £300 DELIVERED to the UK, which is phenomenal value for money. What valve amplifier could you buy in the UK, EU or US for £300? Answer: none!

And even unmodified, replete with crap parts mentioned, they sound remarkably good. Modify them, as I've had done, and will continue to do, and you've got something very special on your hands, particularly when used as a power amp with a high quality valve preamp (they come as an integrated as standard).



I'll let Guy speak for himself, but I don't think that would be Anthony's cup of tea, no matter how profitable it was. I could be wrong, though! No doubt Anthony will be along to add his thoughts in due course...

Marco.

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I built a point to point wired sand amp once, a complete pain in the arse and completely impossible in a production senario. Did it sound better, well marginally but nothing to make up for the ag. Anyway it made me look at what it was in PCB material and manufacture that caused this loss of quality and the changes I made took the process even further than hard wired. BUT that work probably wouldn't help bottle circuit PCBs. High voltage low current field propogates completely differently to low voltage high current field.

Ricardo- Como esta? Is the term "sand amp" commonly used in the Queen's english? I believe it was Harvey Rosenberg who coined that term. Would that be right? Cheers.

The Pure Sound A30 is based on a valve amp available from China, however I order them configured for Class A operation which involved re-speccing the mains and output transformers, changing the bias applied to the output stage, changing the feedback applied and having certain passive components fitted. When they arrive here I qc check each one, carry out a further minor modification and then supply them via retailers. I could have chosen to sell directly via ebay or a website but I'm old fashioned in the sense that I think that there is a place for a competent dealer giving a proper demonstration. I see too many people who buy things 'blind' and without advice ending up with very poor sounding hotchpotches of components that frequently don't suit each other. Many people do need advice & guidance in choosing equipment and a good dealer can provide that.

Incidentally the transformers fitted to the A30 are of a very good quality and give a better performance than any we were buying in the UK 15 years ago when I worked for another valve amplifier manufacturer. The A30 is better specified, better built, better sounding and cheaper than the equivalent amplifier we were making & selling in the UK back in the early 90's. I'd say that was progress. (at least from the consumers viewpoint)

The Phono stage (pictured in the avatar) is entirely my design and made in the same factory. Other products will be coming via the same means later this year.

I feel these items offer decent material value for money, can be heard around the country at reputable dealers and most importantly reflect the way I like music to be reproduced. I'd be the first to acknowledge that what I like may not be liked by everyone else, but it would be a dull old world if we all shared exactly the same tastes.

Sorry to barge in on your thread Richard. I'll leave it alone now.

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Originally Posted by pure sound

The Pure Sound A30 is based on a valve amp available from China, however I order them configured for Class A operation which involved re-speccing the mains and output transformers, changing the bias applied to the output stage, changing the feedback applied and having certain passive components fitted. When they arrive here I qc check each one, carry out a further minor modification and then supply them via retailers. I could have chosen to sell directly via ebay or a website but I'm old fashioned in the sense that I think that there is a place for a competent dealer giving a proper demonstration. I see too many people who buy things 'blind' and without advice ending up with very poor sounding hotchpotches of components that frequently don't suit each other. Many people do need advice & guidance in choosing equipment and a good dealer can provide that.

Incidentally the transformers fitted to the A30 are of a very good quality and give a better performance than any we were buying in the UK 15 years ago when I worked for another valve amplifier manufacturer. The A30 is better specified, better built, better sounding and cheaper than the equivalent amplifier we were making & selling in the UK back in the early 90's. I'd say that was progress. (at least from the consumers viewpoint)

The Phono stage (pictured in the avatar) is entirely my design and made in the same factory. Other products will be coming via the same means later this year.

I feel these items offer decent material value for money, can be heard around the country at reputable dealers and most importantly reflect the way I like music to be reproduced. I'd be the first to acknowledge that what I like may not be liked by everyone else, but it would be a dull old world if we all shared exactly the same tastes.

Sorry to barge in on your thread Richard. I'll leave it alone now.

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Why? I mentioned Puresound so it became your business. This post of yours is largely trumpet blowing and I dissagree with lots of it, but it does put the case for this method of creating and selling product. Completely dissagree about retailers contributing they add nothing for the customer they add *for you*. Without them you would have had difficulty getting anyone to buy as you started on the lee side of the cusp of this process. Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't make your customers happier by charging them 50% of the present retail price! really it is a no brainer, plus the many methods and processes I have talked about in this thread and others for making up for the miniscule amount of benefit (apart from to their pockets) that retailers provide which involve the expansion of community. Retailers are not interested in choice and service, they are interested in profit for minimum choice and service, and basically they just want you to buy what they tell you - all ego based, which is why so many of them develop the *attitude* they are largely famous for. They are less and less likely to get away with it now, which is largely part of the industry changes I am observing and voicing.

So if Anthony does the same thing and goes direct and promotes via forums as he is already then he has a serious advantage. In your case the base amp you work from is less than a third of the price of yours direct from China, what is to stop others doing the same thing. The process of changing and improving is available, in the open, and published on the DIY forums.

This is a valve marketing possibility you have that doesn't apply to transistor amps, much harder to tweak as far more complicated (nod to Anthony) and difficult to access and less cost effective process. Much easier a la MF and others to get the manufacture done there to your specs and design.

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Originally Posted by jimdgoulding

Ricardo- Como esta? Is the term "sand amp" commonly used in the Queen's english? I believe it was Harvey Rosenberg who coined that term. Would that be right? Cheers.

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It is term I have used for over forty years since the intro of silicon devices, sand amps v glass or bottle amps (should really be vacuum amps). Sand and glass made from the same sand - Silicon. Though silicon is just one components of most sand.

So I really don't remember if I invented the term or not :confused::smoking:

Suppose an individual wants to buy a new turntable. Suppose this person isn't confident enough to fit an arm or cartridge to it. But they want something good to make the most of an existing record collection. Are you suggesting they buy such a thing over the internet? A dealer can help them choose an appropriate arm and cartridge and set it up/install it for them. Suppose they want to buy some large speakers to go with it. We all know that Tannoys sound different to Pro-acs or ATCs, Spendors, ARTS whatever. Are you suggesting that people just choose based on a picture they see on a website? Maybe you are. Personally, I think it'd be a very poor way to choose a system but each to their own. While there are still dealers with the facility to play these options to people then they should be used. I wouldn't expect any such dealer to hold these items as demonstration stock and pay for the building in which they are kept out of the kindness of their hearts. I wouldn't expect them to give their time for nothing either.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion about this but I don't think speakers (in particular) are something that should be chosen from a picture. What's your alternative? Is it better to have to arrange to borrow 2 or 3 large sets of speakers to try at home (incurring all the risks of shipping via couriers) or to be able to go somewhere, hear them and perhaps borrow the preferred pair for a home trial. I know which method I (and most people) would still choose. However, it would seem that in your 'brave new world' such a facility will no longer exist. I suppose the person should just slap some drivers into a box until they find a combination that sounds nice. (I seem to recall that you suggested this as an approach to speaker design elsewhere on this forum!) Sadly, in the real world, most people have no inclination to DIY their hifi, just as most people have no inclination to DIY their cars, cookers or washing machines. There is a place for dealers. They can offer a useful service. I'd agree that many don't but there are some that still do.

Well said :gig:

Richard,

When I read your posts I like to think you are playing Devil's Advocate but the one above confirms to me that you are just bitter and twisted. With your rather volatile temperament, it would seem that you have managed in your time to fall out with a lot of dealers/distributors to the extent that direct selling is pretty much your only option. Thus your (jaundiced) views amount to nothing more than soup grapes.

I know exactly how much the A30 would have cost me without the dealer margin but I am very reluctant to buy anything that I cannot listen to first. I received excellent service from Mr. C who travelled the 50 miles from his place to demonstrate the product in my home after I had already spent a few hours down there in the Malvern Hills a couple of weeks earlier. I needed to be sure that it could drive my speakers in my room and work with my system.

I love this amp in stock form as does my wife who told me only yesterday that now CDs she buys no longer go straight to the car, they get played in the home system first. She is not a hi-fi person but in her own words the system is now "involving and enjoyable to listen to." Her initial reaction on setting eyes upon the amp was that it was rather ugly. I'm thus pleased to confirm that she really doesn't judge things solely on appearances...

The mods Anthony will be performing on it in just over a week, all being well, will be fine tuning to add refinement without compromising musicality. The amp will then also become a unique and bespoke item.

With really good hi-fi the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts unless you've got agendas/axes to grind.