The discrete TC-7520(SE)(+) line output

From what I've read, I think the gator update makes the Caiman a better universal DAC. The passive output mod loses the headphone and variable output facility, and it appears the correct value cap has to be calculated for each application for correct maching. In the real world, rather than "ours," this just isn't sellable, so developing a better quality active output buffer which is nigh-on as good as the passive option, but retaining all the usability of the standard article, MUST be a good thing in the wider scheme of things I reckon.

Hi Dave,

You don't lose the variable output only the headphone use. You don't really need to worry about caps either. Most power amps appear happy with 10uf caps.

Regards

Chris

My Gator board arrived today - thanks for the usual swift response and service Stan.
Initial impressions are very good -there seems to be greater air, space and detailing in the music.
Bass is good too, although a little "tight", which should improve with useage.

As I said it's just an initial impression - I'll post up my thoughts in a week or so, but at the moment it's sounding very good:)

Just to remind everyone, I am using a 7520 with the Wolfson chip, Elna caps, Murata regs and a 15v Super Teddy Regged linear power supply. I didn't bother with the passive mod as I wanted to retain the headphone capability.Initially I tried the Gator with some Nichicon caps and whilst they were good, I thought them a little dry and uninvolving, also the bass was a bit lacking.
Stan, nice chap that he is, kindly swapped the board for the standard Gator which I have had running for a few days.
I will come right to the point and say that my listening experience is now as good as its ever been. The Gator is the best £30 I have spent on an upgrade and I really think it moves the Beresford brand into another league. The level of detail is breathtaking at times; the only downside to this is that poor quality recordings are revealed for what they are. The lower notes are full and rich but well controlled, mid and upper just right without any predominant areas and the soundstage has a better sense of depth.
For the first time I have become a bit dissatisfied with internet radio; Radio Paradise at 128aac is ok but higher resolution recordings reveal the Gators quality.
So why have so few people responded with comments? Am I imagining all this?
Stan deserves a bit more encouragement otherwise he might abandon the Caimen Mk 2 project!

I've only had my Caiman nine days and the Gator only two, so I had intended to wait a while before commenting, but the improvement made by the Gator is so obvious. Biggest gains seem to be in treble detail and 'air and space '. I've not really noticed any major changes in the bass, but my current speakers are pretty bass-light in any case.

It's a no-brainer and a steal at 30 quid. Great stuff Stan.

Sent from my HTC Tattoo using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Covenant

So why have so few people responded with comments? Am I imagining all this?
Stan deserves a bit more encouragement otherwise he might abandon the Caimen Mk 2 project!

---

I just ordered Gator and waiting for it+burn in hence I could comment on it, but based on my previous experience with Passive mod with 7520 with upgraded DAC chip, I HOPE that Mr Beresford never abandons Caiman Mk2 project and comes up even with better sound quality.
Thank you Stan

There's no sinister reason for my silence on the Gator - it sounded very good, but unfortunately the inputs on my amp are too sensitive for the output of the board, and so for the moment I'm back to the passive mod - may have a play with it as a preamp into my Audiolab over Christmas.

I got my Gator today :).

I have just put it in, and I must say that it is a great improvement to an already excellent DAC. The bass is much tighter and more dynamic, the midrange is "sweeter" and the treble has more air and details.
The overall impression is that instruments and voices sounds more natural and are much more dynamic than before. I am impressed... Stan's the man!

I had the music on most of Sunday but not listening critically. I am too busy gushing over and preparing the house for new kittens in Feb ... :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter Galbavy

. I am too busy gushing over and preparing the house for new kittens in Feb ... :)

---

Ooh. You know we will require pictures?:)

Slightly (OK, very!) off topic, but here they are as of Saturday (CATurday!) when I drove an 8 1/2 hour roundtrip in the chaos to the breeder's to visit. Three boys from a litter of 6 - 4 boys, 2 girls. Maine Coon giants on the way...

Just listening to The Beatles "Help !" album in 24 bit, via the Caiman/Gator and my latest toy - a pair of Goldring DR150 headphones, purchased this evening from Richer Sounds for the princely sum of £20.

Sounding very nice, although I've heard that the Goldrings take a while to loosen up.

I found the 'phones through the clearance section on the Richer Sounds website, and they are only available for collection from stores that hold stock.

I'm rather pleased with my purchase, to say the least:)

Looking forward to giving this Gator board a try in my Caiman.

Recently bought a pair of Denon AH-D5000 headphones, and using the passive mod for normal Hi-Fi listening. Since something is wrong with my headphone out stage (some kind of weird distortion/interference audible at certain times within songs) this should allow me to run my Denon cans straight from the Caiman rather than through my integrated amp. Bring on the full potential of my new cans....oh yes! :eyebrows:

Got the Gator now for a week burning in, after using my Trends audio with the passive mod (rubycons). -3dB is too much for the tiny Trends, so went on with the Gator. Volume is what it was before now. Got the idea that there's more space en definition, more then with the passive mod. But possibly my ears are disturbed by the extra dB's the Gator delivers. But overall very impressed with it's brillant non fatique sound!

grtz

Ron

Ordered my Gator after Christmas and got it today.

Just fitted.

Easy to fit: Stan's web instructions could not be clearer.

Initial impression? Better piano sound.

Will leave it for a few hours. Other things to do.

Listening in my Southampton flat so with a Quad 77 Integrated Amp and AVI Neutron 4s.

I would expect the Gator to have more effect in Nicosia when using the Caiman-Gator directly to drive a Quad 405-2.

Have you Stan, or anyone made any objective measurements to compare the Caiman with and without Gator?

Good stuff Brian..

did you try out the Passive Mod beforehand or go straight to the Gator?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gazjam

Good stuff Brian..

did you try out the Passive Mod beforehand or go straight to the Gator?

---

No passive mod. Need phones and vol control. Didn't know how DAC without buffer would drive power amp direct.

Just back in. Will have another listen.

My Caiman got its Gator mod nearly three weeks ago, and has burned-in enough for some initial evaluation.

First off, it is definitely a worthwhile upgrade. The Caiman already had the full slew of Tirna mods, and still revealed a noticable improvement. There is more detail in the lows, while excessive brightness has been trimmed off the highs. I also noted a marginal improvement in soundstage on some tracks, but the most significant improvement comes with headphones. Not only are there the previously mentioned detail improvements, but also a much better sense of space between voices and instruments, considerably closer to what my speakers produce.

Stan's service was excellent as usual, and it would certainly seem logical to expect this upgrade on the next incarnation of the Caiman. I'm waiting with eager anticipation Stan! :eyebrows:

Done a bit of listening now, and the Caiman-Gator has been powered up seven hours.

As I said, better piano tone.

With the Gator the Caiman seems to have more clarity and is less aggressive, though it was neither clouded nor abrasive before. I am always wary of subjective descriptions (my engineering background!), but the 'picture' projected by my little Neutron 4s seems bigger, deeper and more convincing. I look forward to hearing what the Gator will do on my big system in Nicosia.

I have now listened to the news and a Feature Film with energetic soundtrack. Speech is better, and the film soundtrack seemed to have more life and more size.

Verdict: An improved sound - a worthwhile purchase.

Edit: I have just read what Stan himself said

Quote:

---

The sizeable improvements from both the fixed and variable outputs are noticeable within the first few seconds of playing music through the Gator. Speaker output is far more extended, with a more energetic and punchy bass. Treble is also less edgy and more natural. Soundstage is wider and open, with no hint of a veil.

---

It's true.

I would like to see some data: how does the DAC measure with and without the Gator? Stan? Leo?

Got My Gator board in a T7520 with an AD826 opamp + Caiman psu , hadn't tried the passive mod due to needing volume control, had tried cutting the MLC5 & 6's but after initial extra detial lovelyness ,was far too harsh so reconnected.
Also put in LM4562NA's and liked what I'd heard.

All I can sat now is WOW, extra bass definition , a more 'realistic sound' to instruments and voices,silky smooth with fantastic detail and a more open soundstage. I've only had about 30 or so hours through the board so will probaly try the LM4562NA opamp in about a week , by then I should have put around 100 hours into it.:cool:



If anyone has a T7520 I can honestly recommend the £50 ish upgrade, I'd love to hear what a Caiman sounds like with this in if it can make mine sound this good .:stalks:

Just wondering what opamp you are all using ?

Cheers
Paul

The opamp is only needed for the headphone stage. If you don't use headphones then the choice of opamp is only important for the correct operation of the PCB.

Hi,

After a massive palaver with headphones, I finally got to fit the Gator and listen to it..And I've got a problem. :(

I'm only listening to headphones but there is a lot of noise/crackle coming through. It's weird because it's not constant and only on some frequencies (such as the same word twice in Adele's "home town"). Some tracks it only comes through a 3rd of the way through, or not at all..

I'm listening to FLACs from my Music server via coax. I still have the stock PSU, and otherwise I'm totally unmodified..

I was literally about to send it off to Tirna for the Caps and other upgrades, but I can't really send it like this..

"You know I'm no Good" by Amy Winehouse does it as soon as she starts to sing, but the next tracks "Mr and Mr Jones" and "Just Friends" don't do it at all (I've just gone back and played them again, same result). It also does it if go anywhere near the volume control..

Forgive me if I've missed anything obvious, but I did follow the instructions..

What have I done wrong? :scratch:

Edit: I'm using the Stan supplied & fitted AD826 rather than stock op-amps..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

The opamp is only needed for the headphone stage. If you don't use headphones then the choice of opamp is only important for the correct operation of the PCB.

---

Thanks for clearing that up Stan .:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kendalbeefcake

Hi,

After a massive palaver with headphones, I finally got to fit the Gator and listen to it..And I've got a problem. :(

I'm only listening to headphones but there is a lot of noise/crackle coming through. It's weird because it's not constant and only on some frequencies (such as the same word twice in Adele's "home town"). Some tracks it only comes through a 3rd of the way through, or not at all..

---

The pins on the original PCB have widened the socket clamps in the connectors on either side of the headphone socket. You can lift the black covers off those connectors on the bottom board and CAREFULLY bend the clamps a minuscule bit inwards. That will restore proper contact between the pins on the Gator and the clamps underneath, and get rid of the intermittent noise.

If that's a bit scary, send the board back to me and I'll coat the pins with a slight dab of solder, which will sort out the crackle. Even if you have a soldering iron, don't attempt tinning the pins yourself unless you are very skilled. Tinning those pins is not as easy as it seems. A bit too much solder, and the pins won't go into the socket underneath..

If you need pictures on the first suggestion, let me know and I'll drag myself out of my sick bed to the workshop. Yep, I got a bad flu for weeks now, but luckily my staff are taking care of business for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

The pins on the original PCB have widened the socket clamps in the connectors on either side of the headphone socket. You can lift the black covers off those connectors on the bottom board and CAREFULLY bend the clamps a minuscule bit inwards. That will restore proper contact between the pins on the Gator and the clamps underneath, and get rid of the intermittent noise.

If that's a bit scary, send the board back to me and I'll coat the pins with a slight dab of solder, which will sort out the crackle. Even if you have a soldering iron, don't attempt tinning the pins yourself unless you are very skilled. Tinning those pins is not as easy as it seems. A bit too much solder, and the pins won't go into the socket underneath..

If you need pictures on the first suggestion, let me know and I'll drag myself out of my sick bed to the workshop. Yep, I got a bad flu for weeks now, but luckily my staff are taking care of business for me.

---

Hi Stan, sorry to drag you out of your sick bed! To be honest, now you mention it, the fit wasn't that tight, but I guess this is a side effect of fitting X circuit into Y space.. My soldering skills weren't that great 15 years ago, and I'm guessing that 15 years of non-use won't have helped! I'll take it back apart and see if I can sort it.. It's all a bit academic now as my newly "repaired" Denon D2000s have just fallen apart after 2nd use :steam: I might have to give Tirna a call and ask them if they wouldn't mind doing the honours rather than shipping it all over the country!

Get well soon Stan!

Stan, get well soon!

Read the complete topic and this mods sure seems kike one I would like to get for my 7520!
Send Stanley an PB to ask how and what:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

It's the best I have heard my D7000 and HD800 sound to date. I managed to pick up some detail in musical passages I thought I had explored to the full.
Time for a retake on all my test tracks :guitar:.

---

Finally managed to join the fray and now it's time for reevaluation and the retake on my entire music library.

Before I jump to any premature conclusions, wanted to ask the forum what's the realistic burn in time for the Gator board? I wanna give it full justice, so I need to be sure that I've given it a fair fighting chance. (although, judging from the first impressions, the gatorized Caiman has no reason to fear any competition)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by magiccarpetride

what's the realistic burn in time for the Gator board?

---

About the time it takes to switch on and sit down.

I am a newbie but thought I'd give my Gator experience.

I got my Gator last week but the output was just too high and causing clipping in my pre-amp (the standard Caiman board is fine with it). Stan very kindly allowed me to return the board and will refund.

Meanwhile, I have gone passive since I do not use the headphones but use both fixed and variable outputs. The variable output still works and is, err, variable (despite suggestions otherwise). The Rubycon caps cost 2 quid and sound excellent, certainly the cheapest and one of the best upgrades I have done...

Cheers

Alastair

Got my Gator mod yesterday and installed it last night.
Must say it sound very very good, quite a bit better than the original board with THS4032 OpAmp I think.
Stan kindly included a LM4562NA OpAmp with the board and I like it!
Bass seems more controled and the soundstage appears a bit wider and very full.
back-to-back testing is a bit hard so I won't attempt that, but this mod seems a very good one right from the box:)

Thanks Stan for this great mod!

Hi Guys / Stan,

Long time lurker on the forums but have just joined up (and said hello on welcome hall). Im interesting in buying a caiman and the gator board as the basis of a 2nd system.

I already have a TC-7520 with THS4032CD in the line out and OPA2132 in headphone. Its a fantastic bit of kit but always thought it would be better if the Line out and headphone opamps didnt influence each other (i believe this to be the case). Ive spent hours trying different op amp combinations and although its quite fun, the process is a bit like brewing a potion :)

Anyways I'd like to give the caiman/gator combo a go due to the discrete line out circuitry. Im just now wondering how i go about ordering a caiman and a gator board as i cant buy the gator board yet on the website.

Thanks in advance

Probably best to drop Stanley Beresford an email at info@homehifi.co.uk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by keiths

Probably best to drop Stanley Beresford an email at info@homehifi.co.uk

---

Thought i read somewhere about a link he would send. Email sent anyways - thanks Keith :)

Been listening to the TC7520 + Gator mod setup for some more time now and it realy starts to grow on me.
It sounded so great even straight from the box and it continues to sound better as the LM4562NA opamp burns in.
Great and wide sound stage, super tight and controlled bass, loads of detail and nice balance.

Never could imagine my old Onkyo TX-SV535 receiver with AR Status S50 speakers would sound so good as the do now:)
Makes me wonder what would happen if I decided to upgrade my receiver to something like a Cambridge Audio Azur 740A amp... :cool:

Got a gatored caiman and another gator for my tc-7250 on its way. Will post some comments once its gone through a good burn in and given it a few flacs to chew on. Should be a good week :band: :)

Daft question mode again.
Would the Gator work with the old TC7510 ?
(I know the answer would be a No)

Anyway, I'm going to order one for my Caiman too.
Hope you still got them in stock, Stan.

I have about two dozens left. But many people have asked me if I can make a new batch and maybe even sell it already fitted to the TC-7520 and Caiman. So I might do just that in a month or two.

Fitted the gator to my 100% stock (apart from op amps) tc-7520 last night. Ive had it in its stock state for about 18 months so i think im familiar with how it sounds vs the gator. In short, IMHO its a VAST improvement over any of the op amps ive tried before, and ive tried a few. OPA2132, THS4032, LM4562NA and NE5532P were all put to shame. Im going to be brave and say that it doesnt need any burn in time as it sounded so good out of the box. Listened for about 2 hours last night and was very impressed. Soundstage, detail and timing were all improved and sounded very natural and non-digital.

I noticed 2 things which i hadnt noticed with op amp changes which was very controlled left and right channel steering (stereo imaging??). Im not talking about soundstage here its something to do with how the left and right channels are seemlessly integrated. However, it might have been the track itself that had good stereo mixing so will do some more listening. The other thing which is readily apparent yet quite hard to understand myself is the sheer grunt thats available now. Music can go from quiet to loud effortlessly (more dynamic) without breaking a sweat, everything's more composed when the music gets demanding. My amp is no slouch at 150w into 8 ohms / 95w into 8 and i can only conclude that the power is now being properly utilised. :scratch:

Getting into the details a bit more my stock tc-7520 had a bit of trouble with busy rock music such as metallica and stone sour (think slipknot singer) and was also a little coarse when reproducing smooth female voices (norah jones/adele). With the gator installed I played various genres including norah jones, adele, classical and electro and it all sounded superb...and very realistic. It was quite late so didnt attempt any metallica/stone sour for the sake of the neighbours but will probably give that a whirl when i can. Its probably worth noting i was listening to the dac with the source direct button on the amp turned on therefore bypassing any "colouring" the amp might add.

As for the caiman, its undergoing its lengthy 24/7 burn in process so that will have to wait for now. However, once its ready i hope to do A/B testing on the 7520 vs the caiman. As you can probably tell ive well and truly got upgraditis! Hopefully will be cured soon though :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Audioslave

The other thing which is readily apparent yet quite hard to understand myself is the sheer grunt thats available now. Music can go from quiet to loud effortlessly (more dynamic) without breaking a sweat, everything's more composed when the music gets demanding. My amp is no slouch at 150w into 8 ohms / 95w into 8 and i can only conclude that the power is now being properly utilised.

---

Lossless digital audio can have a tremendous amount of dynamic range embedded in it. The old vinyl was only good for about 70dB, whilst digital audio can muster 96dB or more.
The Gator unleashes that dynamic range by careful avoidance of unnecessary feedback in the signal path. Opamps rely on a lot of feedback, which can flatten dynamic range.

Thanks Stan.
You just got another order.. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

I have about two dozens left. But many people have asked me if I can make a new batch and maybe even sell it already fitted to the TC-7520 and Caiman. So I might do just that in a month or two.

---

Any chance of being put down for two Gator boards please?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Heady

Any chance of being put down for two Gator boards please?

---

I can, but stock is now critical. Someone just bought 6 pieces in one go for himself and a few members on a Polish audio forum, bringing my stock level to below 20.
I am going to have to make a new batch at this rate if interest in the Gator continues.

Emailed Stan last Sunday and expected to find a reply Monday morning but no...

He replied some 20 minutes later.

Ordered late Wednesday night, goods here with me today!

I will be going straight home tonight for an evening of tinkering and listening.

Top marks for customer service as usual Stan!

T

Hi "tizer",

Welcome to AoS :)

Could you do me a favour please and pop into the Welcome area at your earliest opportunity and introduce yourself, giving your real first name, basic location, system details and music tastes, as this is now required of all AoS members.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

I can, but stock is now critical. ...

---

Thanks - how do I order and pay?

I can see a Gator button on your website but I get redirected to a missing page.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alex_UK

There's no sinister reason for my silence on the Gator - it sounded very good, but unfortunately the inputs on my amp are too sensitive for the output of the board, and so for the moment I'm back to the passive mod - may have a play with it as a preamp into my Audiolab over Christmas.

---

Well, here's my update. As expected due to my usual procrastination, the Gator board went in the cupboard, Christmas and New Year came and went, and that is where it stayed.

I got an email from Stan last week to enquire how I was getting on - and to offer me the "gain mod" which would resolve the issue I have with my amp. I duly recovered the Gator from said Cupboard, and despatched via the Post Office back to Beresford Towers on Monday lunchtime.

Imagine my surprise, therefore, when the postman knocks on my door this morning, and I'm thinking "I'm not expecting any deliveries... :scratch:" and then realise the Gator has come home to me, in less than 48 hours! I know we always "big up" Stan's service on here - but really - this is just exceptional - I can't imagine many manufacturers would even have remembered I had a problem, let alone be proactive enough to offer the mod, and then turn it around in less than 2 days - and I don't even seem to be able to pay him for it!

If any of you out there in "lurker land" are looking for a reason to buy a Beresford (other than the exceptional performance and value, of course!) then surely this sort of extraordinary service should surely seal it!

Anyway, enough blowing smoke up you know where - to top it all, it only bloody works! ;) Duly fitted, and only a few tracks in, but I can confirm the gain mod has indeed cured the issue I had with my amp distorting, and I can immediately tell that the Gator is a notch up from the passive mod I was previously running. I'm not going to go into any detail or over the top rhetoric - far too early to tell - but I am one happy bunny now having my Gatorized Caiman up and running, and looking forward to some listening.

Once again - Stan's the man! :)

Hi guys,

As alex has updated ill follow suit. Ive put 100+ hours on the caiman+ gator but my amp was distorting so unfortunately it looks like i too have the gain problem too. :( Stan has offered to do the gain mod, but im also experiencing distortion through the headphone which i would have thought has nothing to do with gain. :scratch: Can someone more knowledgeable than myself please clarify if a gain problem will affect headphones? Im running some Sennheisers HD 25SP, but im not really a headphone user im just doing it just to figure out whats going on.

As i was aware this was a new mod i got stan to include the original caiman op amp board so i could drop back to stock. I briefly put the original op amp board and it still sounded off so immediately concluded a contact issue between the main board and the opamp board.

However, i think i was a little hasty and in order to be fair ill let the original op amp board burn in, then make a decision.

P.S. The TC-7520+gator rocked out of the box but the Caiman being a sensitive soul needs a bit more tinkering me thinks. No pain no GAIN and all that (im sure theres a pun in theres somewhere) :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Audioslave

Can someone more knowledgeable than myself please clarify if a gain problem will affect headphones?

---

I thought I had :scratch:.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

I thought I had :scratch:.

---

Not to my knowlege stan. From the email you sent to me, it just refences the gain into the amp...extract from email as follows....

"From your description it appears that the gain of the Gator is too high for your amp. The Caiman output is about 80% higher than the TC-7520 in stock form as it is.

Send the Caiman back and I'll reduce the gain."

Also stan, i keep getting error messages saying my emails to you are delayed...i hope they are reaching you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Labarum

Done a bit of listening now, and the Caiman-Gator has been powered up seven hours.

As I said, better piano tone.

With the Gator the Caiman seems to have more clarity and is less aggressive, though it was neither clouded nor abrasive before. I am always wary of subjective descriptions (my engineering background!), but the 'picture' projected by my little Neutron 4s seems bigger, deeper and more convincing. I look forward to hearing what the Gator will do on my big system in Nicosia.

I have now listened to the news and a Feature Film with energetic soundtrack. Speech is better, and the film soundtrack seemed to have more life and more size.

Verdict: An improved sound - a worthwhile purchase.

---

Back in Nicosia: Caiman-Gator is driving the Quad 405-2 and the big Quart floor-standers.

Of course it is difficult to make a judgement because I have not listened on this system for six weeks, but yes, tis better. Cleaner, clearer, more controlled.

Judged by listening to some tracks I know very well.

On refurbishment the Quad 405 had its input sensitivity reduced to what is normal for today. The Caiman is driving the 405 with the volume control in the centre of its range. That's fine.

Good work, Stan. It does what you say:

Quote:

---

The sizeable improvements from both the fixed and variable outputs are noticeable within the first few seconds of playing music through the Gator. Speaker output is far more extended, with a more energetic and punchy bass. Treble is also less edgy and more natural. Soundstage is wider and open, with no hint of a veil.

---