My 2019 Update Thread - My final system I think.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Thanks for the update mate. Interesting how your TT has gone to the extreme in low mass and produces such an amazing result. Just show how different ways of thinking can be so effective.

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Aye,
totally agree it’s an interesting one Jim.
Really does go to show;
More than one way to get the groove, out the groove...and it’s good to hear the different approaches, see what works for you.

Weirdly, the more right the equipment is, and don’t get me wrong having the gears cool and all, but if done right the less you think about it and the more you focus on the music you love.

Musical engagements where I’m at, and totally buying into Rega’s philosophy here.

Turntable done, MAYBE a new phonostage in the future, know I can do better and hear more of what the P10 can do.
Just need to pick my stepping off point.

Glad it's doing the biz mate, like to have a listen sometime.

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Originally Posted by Tim

As a Rega fan and lover of simplicity, that's gorgeous Gaz

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Reminds me of how the original RB250/300 arm was, at the time, the limit of extruded alloy technology.

Rega’s definitely pushing the technology with this one.
I always trust a Hifi company that states their goals, sticks by them and pushes what can be done.

I’ll buy into that, Roy Gandy has had the same design ethos since 1973.
Works for him, works for me.

If it makes my favourite Albums sound great, I’m in.

The games afoot...again. :)
And just the thing when stuck at home too.

I run a Pre/Power amp setup, and recently moved on from my 300B SET power amp, so needed something to fill the gap.
Whilst saving up for it's replacement, to fill the gap I brought through the Ebay special solid state power amp from the 2nd system.
Hadn't given it much thought when I bought it, just needed really that sounded OK for a second system.

But hey, best laid plans and all that?
You get an idea in your head where you want to go with your system then something throws you a curve ball.
Colour me shocked, turns out this wee Amps a bit of a "Sleeper".

Hooking it up to my main preamp I was taken back by how great it sounded in the big system.
Mids and top end...perfect.
Hadn't heard extension and focus like this in my system before. Very impressive.
Maybe could have done with just a LITTLE bit more low end meat on the bone and grunt though...?
The synergy with my speakers and Preamp is terrific, just needs that boost at the low end.

So got to thinking... and hatched a cunning plan.
Given how great this thing sounds hooked up to a 'proper' system, what about it's bigger more powerful brother, would that add the low end I'm after?

From reading around online, it's bigger brother, (a late 90's "giant killer"...it says 'ere...) should do just that.
A properly built power amp: BIG toroid transformer and caps, Damping Factor of 500 able to provide a constant 30 amps and 33 amps for dynamic peaks.
130 wpc into 8 ohms, into 95db horns, should be plenty.
If I want more, down the line have the option later to pick up a second identical power amp and after adjusting a few jumpers on the PCB convert both to bridged monoblocks pushing out 360 wpc.
:eek:
Not into massive volume just want that low end solidity and grunt that drives the music and has plenty in reserve for those big booms when you need them.

On paper though...
The big brother amps only a temporary stand in power amp whilst saving for the 300Bs "final" replacement, but given how good it's baby brother from the 2nd system is sounding in the system at the moment...this might just be "good enough" to call it done.
I'm in a place nowadays where care less about the kit and more about the music, if it sounds "good enough" I'm happy to call it done and enjoy the music so...maybe.

Amps being delivered tomorrow.
Will enjoy listening this week with it - good stuff when stuck at home.
(Never thought I'd miss going to work so much though!)

Stick up a couple of pics when its in place.

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

The games afoot...again. :)
And just the thing when stuck at home too.

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Amps being delivered tomorrow.
Will enjoy listening this week with it - good stuff when stuck at home.
(Never thought I'd miss going to work so much though!)

Stick up a couple of pics when its in place.

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I will be interested to see what it is that has taken you over to the dark side of amps. :D When I was waiting fo Amy new Allnic I had a Vincent on loan from a friend which shocked me in a similar way and if it had not been for the fact I had done the deal with the Allnic might have settled down to the Vincent long term, and for 1/5 the price.:doh:

I know Adrian,
sometimes this hobby has a way of surprising you.

Monday was a Bank Holiday, just just found out the Company I bought the amp from DHL’d it Monday, not Tuesday.
Quelle surprise...Its just been delivered! :eek:

Didn’t expect that.
Once I get the Hasmat suit on and hose down the box with bleach, I’ll take a look see what it’s all about.
Might do a bit of housekeeping on it first before switch on.

Its a 1 owner amp with full box etc traded in, so expect it to be in great nick like the photos in the Ad.

But it’s an older amp and wouldn’t do any harm to clean up and deposit the sockets, make sure everything internally is tightened up and maybe strip back the mains cable to fresh copper and fit a new plug.

Once I’ve checked it over and powered up, I’ll leave it burbling away for a couple hours before I sit down to listen.
Happy days.

Oh,
it’s one of these. I had it’s baby brother RB-971 in the 2nd system.

https://i.imgur.com/fpctCaO.jpg

Sometimes you just get that synergy.

I have had some experience of checking over the really hi-end Japanese amplifiers of yesteryear, they are quite impressive.
Also updating some of the phono amps with modern capacitors.

Good stuff Gaz :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Firebottle

I have had some experience of checking over the really hi-end Japanese amplifiers of yesteryear, they are quite impressive.
Also updating some of the phono amps with modern capacitors.

Good stuff Gaz :thumbsup:

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Aint they just Alan,

I've a real soft spot for the high end Sansui's in particular :)

Cheers Alan.

Did some housekeeping on it before plugging it in and leaving it to warm up.
Exposed fresh copper on the mains cable and fitted a new silver plated 13A plug with a decent fuse.
New speaker cable connections too, don’t think it’s been switched on in Months since it was tested as working in January.
So a couple of days before I make up my mind on it.

From first test at switch on though, quite different sounding than before, much better at the low end.
Which is what I was after, great.

Some pics:
Compared to the smaller amp from the 2nd system, showing the difference in size.
All about the power supply in the amp, in comparison a lot bigger and higher rated.
https://i.imgur.com/1Olphlb.jpg

After a Bit of a clean up the amps almost like new, been lucky with this one.
Can tell its been well looked and was handed in as a Trade in.
An older amp though, so wanted to open it up and check for any swollen caps or brown outs on resistors.
Clean as a whistle, a good result.
Massive transformer, beefy power supply caps and the thing weigh’s a ton. Exactly what you’d want in a power amp.
https://i.imgur.com/uGGLWuc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L6nz9eL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FHiXDJW.jpg
Is this 10K uF rating indicative of a strong power output? I’ve read the amp can punt out a constant 30 amps.
Four internal glass fuses...Some room for improvement then.

Dual Mono construction, and able to bridge it to a monoblock with a lot more than it’s 130 watts in stereo mode.
https://i.imgur.com/vusIQlC.jpg

Looks the biz in the system rack, sounding good so far, a big jump in quality particularly in the low end over its little brother the RB-971.
Just let it do its thing in the background for a couple of days then I’ll sit down for a proper listen.

https://i.imgur.com/X6Zgm9G.jpg

So a good result so far, think it’s been a good punt!

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Originally Posted by Firebottle

I have had some experience of checking over the really hi-end Japanese amplifiers of yesteryear, they are quite impressive.
Also updating some of the phono amps with modern capacitors.

Good stuff Gaz :thumbsup:

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Hmnn..
Bit more background hiss than I’m used to.
Think the old gain structure with efficient speakers Scenario is kicking in.
My Pre has a valve input stage, wondering if I’m hearing tube noise...

Do Rothwell attenuators work to lower amp gain? Thinking -10dB or so.
Wondering if they affect Sound quality or just lower amp gain.

Anyone any direct experience of using ‘em to lower background hiss?

thanks. :)

Great looking amp, should do the business, these old beasts were well respected when new. I suspect your hiss may be coming from what’s in front of it, maybe time to do some front end swaps to try and find the cause , if you can.

If the gain of both amps is the same you could bridge them and then the fun really starts! Any difference in WPC is irrelevant.

Front end swaps...you mean everything from the Preamp backwards Adrian?
Suspect its the Pre, as even with nothing connected Im still getting the hiss on all inputs, RCA and XLR.

Thats why I was thinking attenuators, reduce the gain between Pre and power.
Never had to tackle this before an interesting problem!:scratch:

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Originally Posted by AJSki2fly

Great looking amp, should do the business, these old beasts were well respected when new. I suspect your hiss may be coming from what’s in front of it, maybe time to do some front end swaps to try and find the cause , if you can.

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Cheers Rob,

So you saing if the gain in the same one channel wouldnt be quieter than the other given ones quite a lower watts per channel?
New to me this stuff!

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Originally Posted by Puffin

If the gain of both amps is the same you could bridge them and then the fun really starts! Any difference in WPC is irrelevant.

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You using the PS Audio as a pre?

Does it not have adjustable gain?

Its a PS Audio Preamp I use Ali yeah,not the Dac as a digital volume straight into the power amp.

Volume at zero onPre still hiss, but of course gain and volume are different :D

Rather than use external attenuators why not reduce the gain of the amplifier itself?

Alter R651 and 652, 18K, I suggest tacking an additional 18K in parallel with each one.
Don't use in monoblock mode unless you do the same with R561.

Whoa...

way above my paygrade Alan!

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Front end swaps...you mean everything from the Preamp backwards Adrian?
Suspect its the Pre, as even with nothing connected Im still getting the hiss on all inputs, RCA and XLR.

Thats why I was thinking attenuators, reduce the gain between Pre and power.
Never had to tackle this before an interesting problem!:scratch:

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Why not try a simple passive pre like a Tisbury foe £130, I had one and it was great. As long as you have .5 to 1v feeds you should be fine with an amp like that I used mine with a Meridian 557 and a pair of 308 mono blocks

Thanks Adrian,
Sure its gain will maybe eliminate the hiss, but loath though to discard my current Preamp it brings a helluva lot to the table.
So keeping my Pre, may change out the input valves as an option?

Hi Gary, Personally I have mixed views on pre-amps, in my experience if you can loose it and manage with the pure signal to the power stage then you get closer to reality. It’s a difficult one.

I'll sound "sanity check" again a direct connection from my Dac to power amp tomorrow, given I have a completely different power amp.
Didn't make sense when I had the 300B SET, see what happens with a Beefy solid state.

Makes sense to try.

Ok,
In this mornings fun I swapped out the Premp and connected the Dac direct to power amp.
Slightly less hiss, but sound quality dropped away, sounded flatter and more like a recording of a song rather than people playing instruments in the room.
So back in went the Pre.

Funny thing...
I’ve kept the Rotel amp powered on since I first hooked it up, either my brains getting used to it or there’s less hiss from the amp with some hours on it now.
If it hadn’t been switched on since January this might make sense?

Maybe the amps stabilising a bit after being off for 3 months...
Anyway, whatever the reason I’m happy to say I don’t really notice the hiss anymore.

Cool.

That's excellent Gaz.

With regard to being above your pay grade that's crap. If you can wire in balanced mains you can attach a couple of resistors in an amp.
I am making the assumption that there is a silk screen on the PCB showing the component references.

What position is your volume control at, to judge the level of system gain?

The service manuals online Alan, which is handy!
https://www.vintageshifi.com/reperto...ice-Manual.pdf

Balance volume between setting on the amp with digital volume setting on the Dac.
Pre at 53
Dac between 20 and 40 depending on music.

Took a different tack looking at the slight hiss I'm still getting with the Rotel power amp?
My Preamp has a valve driven input stage, and there's quite a lot of adjustability built in with it - so had a look at that.

You can swap out valves so the sound is tweakable, can be set to use either 12V 12AU7 tubes or 6/7 volt tubes.
Additionally you can set the bias current to be 4 or 5ma, so a few different permutations to try and see if it has an effect on the hiss.

From the Manual:
https://i.imgur.com/T2k6iNH.jpg

If I was running less efficient speakers it wouldn't be an issue, but at 95dB...
Ordered some different input valves coming today, see how I get on.

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

If I was running less efficient speakers it wouldn't be an issue, but at 95dB...
Ordered some different input valves coming today, see how I get on.

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I'm in the same boat Gaz . . . except my speakers are over 100db! I've actually managed to all but eliminate the hiss using certain tubes . . . but not the ones I want of course.

The ones I want to run are new(ish) so may quieten down a little I'm hoping. The preamp is also very high gain for the power amp anyway. I tried -10db attenuators but it murdered the sound. A sound which I'm very happy with bar the hiss between tracks.

I'm considering putting a higher value resistor in the output path too.

Always a compromise somewhere I feel . . . some adjustable gain and volume in our preamps would be darn useful right now.

Hey Chris,
Yup, more times than not there's always a trade off...

Have a set of Tungstram ECC-82's which when ran at 5ma sound amazingly transparent and dynamic, literally perfect.
Apart from increased hiss.
Knock the bias current back to 4ma, hiss drops a lot...but so does the "magic".

Some brand new valves to roll in, my other ones are NOS and have a fair amount of time on them, so will see what happens.

The JJ 12AU7 pair are thought very highly with other guys with the same pre-amp, so fingers crossed.
Glad to hear your experience of Attenuators, that was maybe a road I was going to go down.
The higher value resistor is a good shout from Alan, in the queue if different valves don't sort it.

TBH unless I put the ECC-82s in at 5ma, all other combo's are liveable, but want that magic without the hiss - if possible!

Currently keeping me busy.
Updates to follow...

https://i.imgur.com/smdLycs.jpg

what u done;)

Demolished my speakers!

Major refurb of the H2’S, mostly cosmetic but perhaps some internal wiring and crossover updates too. Maybe.
Love the sound, but in my room they look out of place and old fashioned.
So...a modernising makeover, freshen ‘em up and hopefully make them less imposing in the room.

Basically the H2’s in svelte crisp modern white, not 70’s church organ teak.
Brought through the wee Dali’s from the 2nd system, gives an idea of white speakers in the room - much better I think.
https://i.imgur.com/Raokjsw.jpg

The side panels weren’t solidly fixed to the “chassis” any more, so off they came for repaint and reglue.
Other stuff like fitting better outrigger feet, replacing all the old black speaker cloth with something much nicer.

Couple of other things too, keep me busy for a while.

Nice work, I like white speakers, blend into the room better with lighter coloured walls.

Great photo.

looking good mate.. nicely taken too

Something that's just occurred to me looking at that photo.

Why is Nipper facing away and not looking at the record player...?
Now sorted. :D

27/05/20

Been asking about recently on ways to get more from my turntable?
Considered getting a Rega wall shelf but with a stone floor consensus seems to be stick with the table it sits on.

From what Rega peeps DID say, was it would be good to better isolate it from the glass surface...so ordering some stuff for that.
Couple of things today:

# The Rega rubber feet ?
Ordering a set of IsoAcoustics isolation feet to try under the deck. By all accounts extremely good and I have a set of their studio monitor stands in the bedroom and they work great.

Feet look good on a P10 (Not my photo)
https://i.imgur.com/aiRE3wl.jpg

Also,
Its worth looking at substituting out the stock white felt mat?
Lots of buzz about this one online, Collaro Audio precision mat.
My Rega dealer stocks them and mentioned it when I was demo-ing the P10.

Review HERE:
http://www.the-ear.net/how-to/collaro-lp12-mat

Getting a loan of one to see what I think from my Dealer.https://i.imgur.com/ED7SlSS.jpg

See what happens, by all accounts both will let the Rega strut more of its stuff. See what happens.

indeed, i did find isolating well from glass is a big bonus

good to know Grant thanks.

Feet arrived, a nice improvement.
https://i.imgur.com/CenXIZC.jpg

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Feet arrived, a nice improvement.
https://i.imgur.com/CenXIZC.jpg

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What feet are those, might look good on my Panzer Plinth when it arrives.

What fitting m6/m8?

nice quality feet as i'd expect of you:)

And fitted.
Feel like I’m letting the turntable stretch its legs a bit better, quite a substantial improvement with better isolation from the glass shelf below.
Want to get the best out of the deck, so more to come on this front...

https://i.imgur.com/UohCcsU.jpg

Mike,
IsoAcoustics Orea Graphite.

No screw thread (see my pic above), rubber cap on top and bottom.
Fits into area under plinth where stock feet were screwed on.

Happily, the chrome ring where the Stock feet sat is part of the plinth, so blends in nicely with the IsoAcoustics feet.

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Originally Posted by mikeyb

What feet are those, might look good on my Panzer Plinth when it arrives.

What fitting m6/m8?

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Mike,
IsoAcoustics Orea Graphite.

No screw thread (see my pic above), rubber cap on top and bottom.
Fits into area under plinth where stock feet were screwed on.

Happily, the chrome ring where the Stock feet sat is part of the plinth, so blends in nicely with the IsoAcoustics feet.

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Great, thanks [emoji4]

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Originally Posted by struth

nice quality feet as i'd expect of you:)

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cheers Grant!
https://i.imgur.com/UJUBgwP.jpg

Bit minimalist. Not even a bit of varnish?

:eyebrows:

:lol:
not on a Sunday...

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Originally Posted by Firebottle

Bit minimalist. Not even a bit of varnish?

:eyebrows:

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