aaaahhhh ... is that what the little graph in thee review in hfw(?) means?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
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aaaahhhh ... is that what the little graph in thee review in hfw(?) means?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
That's not a Caiman, but yep. As their details reveal, the TC-7520 goes down to 2Hz at -1dB. If that is considered bass shy, then.....:mental:
Ha, I'm quite chugged I can now understand those graphs!
The Caiman has the same printed circuit board as the stock 7520, I believe, but has key components replaced with better and more expensive alternatives.
What is the extra cost of those better components?
If it is not great it would surely be better to make the Caiman the standard production model.
A bit confused by the response, the Beresford 7510 isn't intended for bass boost either is it?
Ah just read that again, so the Beresford 7520 has a lower frequency response than the Caiman? and if so, why
The human hearing is responsive to audio from 16Hz to 20KHz they tell us. All my DACs are flat within the human hearing response.Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyboy
My own test equipment only goes down to 10Hz, so I can say what I measured. HIFI World has equipment that goes down lower than mine, so they quote 2Hz at -1dB for the TC-7510.
Why? Not everyone can afford even the TC-7510, let alone the Caiman costing twice that amount.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Wish mine was. I am about 50dB down at 8Khz in the left ear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
I would settle for a 3dB point of 15KHz!
I should have been clearer. Let the 7510 be, but if the 7520 were to have the better components how much would it add to to retail price?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
No ducking please, Stan.
Certainly not bass shy hereQuote:
Originally Posted by daveyboy
BTW some things may measure the same but they don't sound the same, something I've found when messing about with diy, measure it first to make sure everythings ok and then for the last test use the ears;)
£50 extra, which is what I am charging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Seconded - it's definitely not bass shy here either.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
I've been playing Pendle Coven's 'Uncivil Engineering' through the Caiman. It's a deep bass monster of a CD and it sounds great through the Caiman.
:gig:
Having the Caiman for 3 weeks, I am absolutely convinced that this is the dac for me and my system.
I have a 7510 as well but what strikes me most is that the Caiman definitely has better mids. For example, when I listen to streaming opera, I can actually understandably hear each single German (or English/Dutch or whatever language I understand) words and sentences, which wasn't always the case with my 7510.
I also very much enjoy the bass my system produces with the Caiman. Nice and punchy but not overdone. I don't have to use my (very musical) MJ Acoustics pro 50 sub when listening to CD/Squeezebox.
And then the headphone amp. My Senn HD-570 seems like revived! This headphone is known for its neutral sounds which is why I bought it in the first place. The Caiman tickles its bass region though in a way the 7510 never did before. Just like with phoneless hearing the bass is very much there but not overdone, not booming. I was looking for an audiophile replacement for my HD-570 before I got my Caiman but I decided to keep it.
With my system in mind I think, with the Caiman, the sound can't be much better. I still visit AOS on a daily base to check if Stan finally has been given the CE approval to market his upgraded psu though.
Plus the knowledge that only 2 of 3 dozens of other lucky ones can enjoy the pleasure of a Caiman. :eyebrows:
Well my Caiman has now been installed for 1 week - the new Creek Amp/Silver High Breed I/C's a week tomorrow. First question to Stan - I've never previously turned any components off - my recently retired Audiolab amp having been switched off only ever for 4 house moves, 1 accident by an ex! (she didn't become an ex just because of that!) and the odd power cut in 13 years - do you envisage this being a problem with the Caiman?
Well, initially I bought the Caiman partly for the Roku Soundbridge (I've stopped using it the past couple of years as it sounds so inferior to my CD player) but mainly for Laptop based music - I'm very drawn to Spotify, Last FM etc, as well as looking at other options now bandwidth is no issue. However, as I had a spare Coax input (the toslink is taken up with my Xbox360, and the PS3 is currently connected to the plasma - the hi-fi setup has a monitor shared between the laptop and xbox so I can play games or listen properly to internet music whilst my wife watches her crappy soaps...) I also connected the CD player up, interested to see how the Beresford might put up a brave fight in some A/B comparisons... Well, little did I expect the DAC to beat the onboard one on the KI Signature, maybe naively, I thought a £600 player would have better computer circuitry!
Having directly compared the 2 over the last week, a casual listen would suggest that the Caiman is bass *light* compared to the KI, but in fact detailed comparison has shown that the Caiman is much tighter and controlled in the bass rather than just trying to impress with bags of bloated bottom end. I would agree with some others on here that the amazing difference is in the midrange - separation and clarity greatly improved. I think the biggest difference I can notice is the soundstage - especially with early stero recordings (Louis Armstrong, for example) it seems about 25% wider through the Caiman than straight out of the analogues on the CD.
So, I bought the Caiman to try and bring streaming and Internet music up to the quality of CD - does it do that? I have absolutely no idea, I can't drag myself away from the cliche that I have become, "rediscovering" my CD collection (god I hate that expression, but it is just so damn true!)
I don't switch any of my system off.
I don't want to drift the thread, but it does apply to the DAC - my reasoning has not been as much to sonic performance but to component failure - I argue that the constant heating/cooling/heating cycle is what will cause parts to fail - the initial surge of electricity when you power up being the most damaging - i.e. how many times has a light bulb blown on me an hour or two after it was switched on? Never - they always blow when you turn them on. If you never turn them off, they can't blow? Complete amateur/non-technical rationale, but I bet I'm right!Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Generally, lack of power cycles does preserve electronics. They also sound better :)
I am sorely tempted, the 7510 has no problem producing bass, so if this has better bass, without losing the depth, then excellent :)
I wouldn't swap out your 7510 just on the basis that the Caiman may have better/more/less bass.
If you are trying to achieve the most realistic reproduction of music in your home possible without resorting to spending megabucks then I believe the Caiman will move you closer to that aim.
Regards
Oh I hear you on that score, it's just obviously when words like bass shy are used, my immediate reaction is to think it has no noticeable bass then, whereas the sensible thing to do would be to ask compared to what? Of course bass isn't the only concern, it's a cocktail of things which it sounds like the Caiman has :smoking:
Just seen whf will be reviewing the Caiman later this month
A few people have mentioned to me that some parts of their equipment they had set eyes upon for replacement before trying out the Caiman have now been given a new lease of life and a subsequent stay of execution. So the Caiman could put a damper on your other upgrade plans.Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyboy
Just listening to
Johannes Brahms - Sonata per pianoforte in fa diesis No.2 Op.2 - II
Not a piece I have heard before - absolutely beautiful. Tears to my eyes.
Listening on
Venice Classic MP3 128
http://www.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein...ename=playlist.
So not one of the highest bitrates available, nor yet the best Codec.
Brilliant Stan, Brilliant!
Hi guys,
I thought I'd share with you a very interesting and enlightening afternoon I spent at a friends house with the Caiman yesterday.
The friend in question has been a big Naim fan for many years and has a pretty serious system consisting of a CDS2 CD player, 52 pre-amp with Supercap and 2x135 power amps driving a pair of Dynaudio Contour 3.3s which are monsters. He'd been intrigued about the whole computer + DAC for playback and streaming audio so I agreed to take my Macbook and Caiman down to hook it up to his system.
I ripped a selection of his CDs to the hard drive (losslessly) and we sat listening for a good while. It sounded pretty stunning, so my friend came up with the idea of doing some A/B comparisons against his CDS2. I was in doubt at first that there could be much of a comparison between a CD player and a DAC costing less than 10% of its value, but oh no...
What transpired was that we'd listen for a couple of minutes to a track on the CDS2, then move to the Caiman - and proceed to play the entire track, not daring to stop it half way through like we did on the Naim. In almost every area, the Caiman did things better. Most notably in the timing department which explains why we spent so long listening to that and so little time to the CDS2. Instrument position was better, focus better, separation better, vocal textures much better. In fact, the whole midband was just cleaner and better defined.
The only area that the CDS2 outperformed the Caiman was in the bass, there was just more presence to it and it went somewhat lower. I found this quite strange as back at home in my system, there are no complaints with bass whatsoever, so I wondered whether there was some impedance matching issue with the Naim pre-amp, which obviously the CDS2 would not suffer from, being another Naim product.
Even so... For a DAC to perform so well against one of Naim's flagship products is quite amazing, and for it to perform so well as the front end to 10K worth of amp and speakers is quite frankly mind blowing.
great writeup Rich, pretty impressive I'd say and great to know the Caiman can perform in a revealing system like the Naim surely is.
10K huh?
Guess I wont need to upgrade my source anytime soon? :)
Having a --> b demo'ed my TC-7520 (LM4562NA) up against a Naim CD5i and CD5X in the recent past (April) I can confidently say that both Naim CDP's were comfortably better. (Yes, lossless files were used.)
Purchase of an £895 CD player (or not) was in the balance - with me being £895 better off if the TC-7520 came near enough in performance - so this was not done light-heartedly. There were a lot of other things I could do with almost £900 :)
It would have also been the 'break off' point where I would have finally decided once-and-for-all whether to continue with traditional CD replay or not.
The result is here to see...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3483/...b1c8c41f_m.jpg
I use both but the DAC serves to play Freeview radio, DVD sound, iTunes downloads and internet radio, BBC iPlayer etc rather than replace a CD player.
I am incredulous that a somewhat more modified TC-7520 than mine (in the shape of a Caiman) could be thought better than a CDS2.
I will be interested to see what happens with the WHF Caiman review and if they have similar findings to 'Lovejoy' and his friend.
Maybe I am going to be able to sell the Naim kit buy a Caiman and have nice wedge of change to enjoy!
I have to agree with Lovejoys findings.
My CD5X/FlatCap has been gathering dust since I got the 7520 Wolfsoned.
Has anyone else got anything like the Monarchy Upsampler/Jitterbuster in the loop at all?
That is a serious bit of kit to be collecting dust with, so why not sell it?Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Good question.
There have been rumours of Naim doing an in-house mod for adding a S/PDIF out to the existing players (at a cost no doubt). The new CD5XS and the CDX2S both have these as standard now.
I've been in a bit of a quandry as to which way to go forward. High on the list is to upgrade the 202 to a 282 and P/X the CD.
Are you offering per chance? :lolsign:
The Wolfson DAC really does make the Caiman a very different beast to the 7520. Plus of course what sort of digital signal you're feeding it with makes all the difference.
I suspect the What Hi-Fi? review of the Caiman will count for nothing unless:
a. They've suddenly employed people with a clue
b. They've turned into a proper consumer magazine and won't be giving the award to the highest bidder.
Cynical? Me? Never!
i have to say these comments dont suprise me .. the linn majik ds is suposed to be better sounding the the cds2, and my caiman isnt that far off my majik with a whole bunch of god awfull cables involved
im not so sure about the cd5x/flatcap but when i had my cd5/flatcap i was wholy unimpressed with it as soon as the majik ds came on the sceen
my advice would be to sell the flatcap/cd5x whilst it still demands the cash it does now... i lost £80 on my cd5 in 6 months!
i have just aranged taking the caiman to uhes for comparison with all the linn ds range in a more controlled envrionment than my lounge ... its just a shame im crap at write ups really!!
well worth it!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
my next big upgrade is 82-282 + 180-250
i really like the 282!!
its the problem with naim kit... its good but its not great till its very expensive... good job it holds value eh
I recall a 5* review of the TC-7510 in WHF. (It is still there)Quote:
Originally Posted by lovejoy
Do you think Stanley outbid his competitors on that occasion, or that WHF really might actually have a clue?
There have been many instances of WHF 'ripping' into products from some of their biggest, oldest advertisers and not just on some 'token' basis with obscure 'back of the brochure' items (to allay suspicious minds) but more than once on some quite heavy duty 'strategic' products from big companies.
I glanced at the what-hifi review in Smiths today-wasnt it the bog standard 7520 they reviewed?Quote:
Originally Posted by lovejoy
Yes it was the bog standard TC-7520 reviewed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
BUT it was Hifi World who have reviewed it this month (HFW, current September 2009 issue, group DAC test, page 18) and not WHF.
WHF are reviewing the Caiman soon.
I'm not saying that there haven't been occasions when they haven't got it right, and writing a magazine on what is, at the end of the day a completely subjective topic must be a bit of a nightmare at times, but over 20 years experience of this mag, there have been countless examples of correlations between good reviews for what have been at best, mediocre products and large spends in advertising by the manufacturer in question. What Hi-Fi? never has, and never will be a consumer magazine (like e.g. Which) and should never be trusted as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by chebby
Apologies, I'll get off my soapbox. It's the remaining scars of seeing so many people walk into your shop clutching a copy of WHF and treating it as the bible, with the guy in the shop, the devil.
"Go, go, go, said the bird: human kindQuote:
Originally Posted by lovejoy
Cannot bear very much reality."
TS Eliot
http://www.tristan.icom43.net/quartets/norton.html
Now that I can't wait to hear about. I will probably do the same myself at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish_gill
Just bought one of the last Caiman available (until the next batch??!)
Anyway...It was supposed to be a bit of a stop gap until next year when I can afford a system overhaul, which includes a DS ...(Akurate or Majik - to be decided).
However I have to say that I'm blown away by the quality of sounds I'm now getting. I am using via airport express to play itunes Apple lossless files as well as FLACs via Cog playing wirelessly through Airfoil. I now have two 7510 being similarly used elsewhere in the house, but the improvement with the Caiman is sublime.
Just a thought though..Is there a better way to get a signal from an iMac sited upstairs to the main system other than using wireless to an airport express. Ethernet? In other words, making it more like a DS ?
Come again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Should I need to?Quote:
Originally Posted by lovejoy
I use the quote from Eliot to make Stan's point that reviewers are more interested in a sound that is pretty rather than realistic.
Humankind cannot bear very much reality. Was I so oblique?
Not oblique Brian, perhaps a touch Arch. ;)
And I don't know what "Arch" means, unless it is a contraction of "archaic".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
:)
Arch:Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
–adjective
1. playfully roguish or mischievous: an arch smile.
2. cunning; crafty; sly.
Never seen that usage
http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/cham...Mozilla-search
Chambers definition I know.
Ah here
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arch
Interesting!
every days a schoolday! :)
Tell me about it! :)
:interesting: :interesting: :interesting:
Should "days" have an apostrophe, Gaz?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
You had better start working the weights, if you a going to buy a Quad 405.
:ner:
Back to "arch". What is the etymology? It's not the same as in "Archbishop".
Arch as in Archbishop means 'chief'. So possibly the use of terms like arch-criminal (ie clever and cunning and devious) gave rise to 'arch' itself coming to mean devious, sly, and cunning too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Just an idea.