Marco's cleaning process with new vinyl, using an RCM

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Originally Posted by doom2112

The problem is to find Tergitol™ 15-S-7 i have found it in USA but not in europe.
Mabye someone else can find it.

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Give a look bellow. Put Tergitol in search.
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/european-export.html

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Originally Posted by Marco

Thought I'd move this to a separate thread of its own, should anyone wish to refer to it. Cheers! :)

Marco.

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l would just like to add l feel a valid point- leave the solution for 5 minutes then vacum off, gives the cleaning solution more time to do it's thang.:eek:

That's a thought...
Always assumed leaving the solution for a while gave the gunk time to sink back into the groove?

Not sure, been hoovering it up pretty much right away.
Hope I'm not wrong, spent most of this weekend cleaning records and I'm over half way through!

Yep I usually let it sit for a few mins too so it can soften it up the a little more added and a second brush b4 vaccum. been cleaning a few of late and using a a mix of my own and Pauls cool and a drop of emzyme added to help with old greasy marks etc

Aye i always leave it standing a while.. When you think about it what's the rush when your spending hours talking utter shit on here im sure an extra five mins wont hurt :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by The Barbarian

Aye i always leave it standing a while.. When you think about it what's the rush when your spending hours talking utter shit on here im sure an extra five mins wont hurt :eyebrows:

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True 'dat!

I'll let it sit for a couple of mins and give it a second brush before letting suckage commence.
Earth shatteringly important stuff as always! :D

Suckage :D

here's what i do,its a deep clean mind and you can only do a couple of lp's before you loose the will to live!
i use A.I.V.S 3 step cleaners.
1st is the enzymatic solution,i let that sit for 20 mins,then vac off and rinse twice.
2nd is their isopropanol based cleaner,i brush clockwise and anti-clockwise for 3 mins then vac off and rinse twice.
then i use the disc doctor's miracle cleaning solution repeating the brushing as above.vac off.
lastly 2 rinses.
if that lot doesn't give you good results your records fu*ked! lol

No way on earth would i let any form of Meths near my records. No way.

sorry i didnt mean meths i meant isopropanol,meths is what i drink after the cleaning!

O right, ok but never us Meths on records it's a solvent & will destroy your records long term.

+1 on not using meths.The additives that denature them can destroy plastics and such. surgical spirit is a no no too. pure isopropyl watered down is ok.

Guys calm down I don't use meths.it was a slip of the tongue. :)
I was mearly indicating what was in the cleaner.

Was cleaning again today. Meant to say I use an old cd to protect the label.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...aaed0373c8.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...f46a19bf99.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...03099178c4.jpg

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Originally Posted by jamie123

here's what i do,its a deep clean mind and you can only do a couple of lp's before you loose the will to live!
i use A.I.V.S 3 step cleaners.
1st is the enzymatic solution,i let that sit for 20 mins,then vac off and rinse twice.
2nd is their isopropanol based cleaner,i brush clockwise and anti-clockwise for 3 mins then vac off and rinse twice.
then i use the disc doctor's miracle cleaning solution repeating the brushing as above.vac off.
lastly 2 rinses.
if that lot doesn't give you good results your records fu*ked! lol

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I did not want to comment on this, because as you know I make and sell a record cleaning fluid and I don't want to be accused of "Shiling" However, there seem to be so many misconceptions about what should go into a good RCM fluid and how it should be used that I want to clarify a few points.

1) If you are having to brush for 2 or three minutes, the wetness of the fluid is wrong and no matter how long you brush, you won't reach the bottom of the groove. The wetting agent has to be of a seeking type that causes capillary action to draw the fluid into the groove and soak the detritus trapped there.

2) Soak time, it takes a maximum of 10 second for the capillary action to cause the fluid to get as far down the groove as it will get, after that, about 10 seconds soak time will loosen the crud as much as possible WITH EACH APPLICATION, it may be that it more than one go, but leaving the fluid longer makes no difference, once it's done all it can, it's done all it can, it becomes saturated and you need to use some more.

3) Enzyme cleaners are detrimental to your records if not rinsed off and to your RCM, especially the point nozzle type, rinsed or not. I've lost count of the number of machines I've had to strip down and clean out because the growth many people have seen in the bottle with fluids such as L'Art du Son, occurs in the pipework of you RCM and when it dries out it leaves a black powdery residue that jams the machine. The best degreasant is Isopropanol anyway. It also kills mould and bacteria if mixed with water, so why would you need anything else?

4) Ilfatol as a wetting agent. As a photographer, I used Ilfatol for years, but it's not anti static, that's why Ilford sell anti stat film wipes. Part of the formula has to be an anti stat, Oh and by the way don't use Kodak Photo-Flo if you can still get it as it contains products which are anti stat, but are also de-vinylising.

Cheers

Here's a question for Okki Nokki users - how do you remove the pads from the suction arm? I could do with a fresh set but rather than going in like a bull at a gate I would prefer a measured approach ;)

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Originally Posted by Tarzan

l would just like to add l feel a valid point- leave the solution for 5 minutes then vacum off, gives the cleaning solution more time to do it's thang.:eek:

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Cleaning process re dux; I am now experimenting with a de- ionised water rinse at the end of the above process.( Although l am not the first.) Do not want that Isopropl Alcohol getting near the Cadenza Black.:cool:

I'm pretty sure the IPA will have vaporized before you had the chance to speak a dirty word of choice! ;)

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Originally Posted by cuddles

Here's a question for Okki Nokki users - how do you remove the pads from the suction arm? I could do with a fresh set but rather than going in like a bull at a gate I would prefer a measured approach ;)

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Just rip'em off, they are made from some form of fabric and can take quite a beating. I actually usually reuse them once, just change their postion (or rotate each one 180 degrees)
You just use a few mm's of the edge, the rest is new!
(And the glue usually works just fine once more)

If you are replacing them, clean the suction tube thoroughly with a gentle glue remover and then a degreaser. Otherwise the new pads wont stick properly...
Atb Mike

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Originally Posted by PaulStewart

I did not want to comment on this, because as you know I make and sell a record cleaning fluid and I don't want to be accused of "Shiling" However, there seem to be so many misconceptions about what should go into a good RCM fluid and how it should be used that I want to clarify a few points.

1) If you are having to brush for 2 or three minutes, the wetness of the fluid is wrong and no matter how long you brush, you won't reach the bottom of the groove. The wetting agent has to be of a seeking type that causes capillary action to draw the fluid into the groove and soak the detritus trapped there.

2) Soak time, it takes a maximum of 10 second for the capillary action to cause the fluid to get as far down the groove as it will get, after that, about 10 seconds soak time will loosen the crud as much as possible WITH EACH APPLICATION, it may be that it more than one go, but leaving the fluid longer makes no difference, once it's done all it can, it's done all it can, it becomes saturated and you need to use some more.

3) Enzyme cleaners are detrimental to your records if not rinsed off and to your RCM, especially the point nozzle type, rinsed or not. I've lost count of the number of machines I've had to strip down and clean out because the growth many people have seen in the bottle with fluids such as L'Art du Son, occurs in the pipework of you RCM and when it dries out it leaves a black powdery residue that jams the machine. The best degreasant is Isopropanol anyway. It also kills mould and bacteria if mixed with water, so why would you need anything else?

4) Ilfatol as a wetting agent. As a photographer, I used Ilfatol for years, but it's not anti static, that's why Ilford sell anti stat film wipes. Part of the formula has to be an anti stat, Oh and by the way don't use Kodak Photo-Flo if you can still get it as it contains products which are anti stat, but are also de-vinylising.

Cheers

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re point 1, i do that out of choice and not because of a weakness in the fluid,if your fluid is the dogs bo**ocks how about a small free sample so i can compare? if its good i gladly buy some.in your defence though i have just re-read the aivs instructions and it does appear that iam going well over the top with the times left on the records so fair play to you.
regards.
j.

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Originally Posted by jamie123

re point 1, i do that out of choice and not because of a weakness in the fluid,if your fluid is the dogs bo**ocks how about a small free sample so i can compare? if its good i gladly buy some.in your defence though i have just re-read the aivs instructions and it does appear that iam going well over the top with the times left on the records so fair play to you.
regards.
j.

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Jamie, I don't need to "defend myself" as "The Right One" record cleaning fluid sells as fast as I can make it, over 50% of my customers are return customers as well. My observations were an attempt to provide you with some information gleaned over years of research, so you did not damage your records, remind me not to bother in future. Still as they say no good deed goes unpunished

CHILL WINSTON.........i think you may have took that the wrong way mate,i thank you for your advice,reading what you said made me look at instructions for my cleaners and change the way i use them,that was down to you.

a clean record is a happy record

thevinylpress.com/cleaning-vinyl-records-my-personal-odyssey/

thevinylpress.com/cleaning-and-archival-standards-of-care/

thevinylpress.com/category/cleaning-care/

Yesterday was a sad day. :eyebrows:
I have almost finished my bottle of "The right one" and I have run out of new inner sleeves.
I must have cleaned close to 40 records yesterday.

Due the problems in shipping cleaning fluid to France, I have ordered some Isopropyl and a litre of Ilfotol. I already have the distiller water, so I am going to have a go at making my own fluid. It had better work out ok, as I have bought 6 litres of Isopropyl.

I just need to place an order for some more inner sleeves and the cleaning marathon can continue.

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Originally Posted by CageyH

Yesterday was a sad day. :eyebrows:
I have almost finished my bottle of "The right one" and I have run out of new inner sleeves.
I must have cleaned close to 40 records yesterday.

Due the problems in shipping cleaning fluid to France, I have ordered some Isopropyl and a litre of Ilfotol. I already have the distiller water, so I am going to have a go at making my own fluid. It had better work out ok, as I have bought 6 litres of Isopropyl.

I just need to place an order for some more inner sleeves and the cleaning marathon can continue.

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been making my own lately too..works great as well and its cheaper. especially when you clean a lot like you...pauls stuff if superb though.

Paul's fluid is superb.
His eBay advert no longer includes shipping outside of the UK though. It was a pain last time, as the first carrier refused to ship it. Paul went out of his way to find someone who would though.

My God Jamie that's a lot of effort ! My solution is homemade Isopropanol, AnalaR and Ilfotol in the following quantities - 200ml 800ml 15ml for records and 35ml 141ml and 5ml for CD/DVD etc in the Discwaher Hydrobath

Just apply to record clean for at least a minute with brush whilst rotating allow to stand for a couple of mins then again with carbon brush and pad then dry it works for me !

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Originally Posted by Rush2112

My God Jamie that's a lot of effort ! My solution is homemade Isopropanol, AnalaR and Ilfotol in the following quantities - 200ml 800ml 15ml for records and 35ml 141ml and 5ml for CD/DVD etc in the Discwaher Hydrobath

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i dont do that anymore mate lol

Nice to know I've been using your fluid the right way Paul. :)
Hate to go back and do 300odd LPs again!

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Originally Posted by PaulStewart

I did not want to comment on this, because as you know I make and sell a record cleaning fluid and I don't want to be accused of "Shiling" However, there seem to be so many misconceptions about what should go into a good RCM fluid and how it should be used that I want to clarify a few points.

1) If you are having to brush for 2 or three minutes, the wetness of the fluid is wrong and no matter how long you brush, you won't reach the bottom of the groove. The wetting agent has to be of a seeking type that causes capillary action to draw the fluid into the groove and soak the detritus trapped there.

2) Soak time, it takes a maximum of 10 second for the capillary action to cause the fluid to get as far down the groove as it will get, after that, about 10 seconds soak time will loosen the crud as much as possible WITH EACH APPLICATION, it may be that it more than one go, but leaving the fluid longer makes no difference, once it's done all it can, it's done all it can, it becomes saturated and you need to use some more.

3) Enzyme cleaners are detrimental to your records if not rinsed off and to your RCM, especially the point nozzle type, rinsed or not. I've lost count of the number of machines I've had to strip down and clean out because the growth many people have seen in the bottle with fluids such as L'Art du Son, occurs in the pipework of you RCM and when it dries out it leaves a black powdery residue that jams the machine. The best degreasant is Isopropanol anyway. It also kills mould and bacteria if mixed with water, so why would you need anything else?

4) Ilfatol as a wetting agent. As a photographer, I used Ilfatol for years, but it's not anti static, that's why Ilford sell anti stat film wipes. Part of the formula has to be an anti stat, Oh and by the way don't use Kodak Photo-Flo if you can still get it as it contains products which are anti stat, but are also de-vinylising.

Cheers

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Nice to know i've been using your fluid the right way Paul. :)
Hate to go back and do 300odd LPs again...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulStewart

I did not want to comment on this, because as you know I make and sell a record cleaning fluid and I don't want to be accused of "Shiling" However, there seem to be so many misconceptions about what should go into a good RCM fluid and how it should be used that I want to clarify a few points.

1) If you are having to brush for 2 or three minutes, the wetness of the fluid is wrong and no matter how long you brush, you won't reach the bottom of the groove. The wetting agent has to be of a seeking type that causes capillary action to draw the fluid into the groove and soak the detritus trapped there.

2) Soak time, it takes a maximum of 10 second for the capillary action to cause the fluid to get as far down the groove as it will get, after that, about 10 seconds soak time will loosen the crud as much as possible WITH EACH APPLICATION, it may be that it more than one go, but leaving the fluid longer makes no difference, once it's done all it can, it's done all it can, it becomes saturated and you need to use some more.

3) Enzyme cleaners are detrimental to your records if not rinsed off and to your RCM, especially the point nozzle type, rinsed or not. I've lost count of the number of machines I've had to strip down and clean out because the growth many people have seen in the bottle with fluids such as L'Art du Son, occurs in the pipework of you RCM and when it dries out it leaves a black powdery residue that jams the machine. The best degreasant is Isopropanol anyway. It also kills mould and bacteria if mixed with water, so why would you need anything else?

4) Ilfatol as a wetting agent. As a photographer, I used Ilfatol for years, but it's not anti static, that's why Ilford sell anti stat film wipes. Part of the formula has to be an anti stat, Oh and by the way don't use Kodak Photo-Flo if you can still get it as it contains products which are anti stat, but are also de-vinylising.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Reffc

"Archive" solution recipe as used by record libraries stateside and in the UK in bygone times:

25% (max) lab grade 99.9% pure IPA;

75% demineralised/de-ionised water;

Add to this 0.5 to 1% by volume Ilford Ilfotol wetting agent (do not use older recipes such as Kodak Photoflo as the additives could leave a residue).

Personally, I'd avoid using washing up liquid as it contains large amounts of salt but a little (as in a few drops per litre) may be ok.

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Water - check
IPA - check
Ilfotol - check

Time for the first home brew cleaning solution.

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Originally Posted by CageyH

Water - check
IPA - check
Ilfotol - check

Time for the first home brew cleaning solution.

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this will give you a good guide for using it.
https://londonjazzcollector.wordpres...r-vacuum-rcms/

In reality my timings are probably much shorter than stated ! As for the comments on Ilfotel anyone got another option which is AntiStatic ?

Hi Rush2112,

Sorry for Hi Jacking this thread. Completely off topic but just wanted to commend you on an excellent user ID. "All the world to me's a stage and we are merely players performers and portrayers.....etc...well you know how it goes.

Favourite Rush track? mine is Natural Science :)

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Originally Posted by Marco

], there is usually a small build of static, as a result of the felt strips, fitted to the drying nozzle, passing over the record surface and making light contact with it, during the drying process. Therefore, simply 'zap' the record surface once with the Zerostat gun, thereby discharging it from any static, lift the record off of the platter and pop it into an anti-static record sleeve.

Marco.

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Or use pure cotton velvet pads !

Most velvet is now acrylic but I managed to source some proper stuff. 10mm cotton velvet ribbon and some 2 sided tape..


@ RUSH 2112.

ILFORD ILFOTOL is a non-ionic wetting agent used as a final rinse before drying films. It can be used in all manual and machine processes to aid rapid even drying and so greatly reduce the risk of drying marks being formed. ILFOTOL can also be used as a final rinse before drying fibre based prints, again it promotes rapid, even drying. Additionally it can be used to clean glass and plastic lenses and filters and as an antistatic treatment. 1 Litre.

I’ve been playing with my nice new Okki Nokki, trying different methods. I bought some of Pauls ‘The Right One’ fluid, and I had some Disc Doctor fluid which I bought in a kit with cleaning pads etc. I tried the brush that came with the machine first with Pauls cleaning fluid, I wasn’t getting the coverage I was expecting. So I changed to the Disc doctor products which seemed better, but with these you have to do a rinse. When I changed to using The Right One fluid along with the disc doctor pads I got the best results of all.

At present I only have one nozzle so I’m cleaning my recently bought new records before moving on to my older stuff. I’m amazed how greasy my hands are, I’m a surgical assistant and scrub my hands at least 4 or 5 times a day and I would have said I had dry hands. Some of my Beatles mono collection were in really tight card sleeves and I had to pull the record out, rather than just let it slide out. Even this minimal contact left marks that were a bitch to shift from the otherwise brand new discs. I brought home some Nitrile gloves from work so I don’t have to worry about inadvertent contact with the surface. I cleaned about a dozen discs, and was probably a bit free with the fluid but at the end I only got a few drops out of the drain tube, I wondered if flushing the tank out at the end might be worth a try?

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Originally Posted by Mike - H

I’ve been playing with my nice new Okki Nokki, trying different methods. I bought some of Pauls ‘The Right One’ fluid, and I had some Disc Doctor fluid which I bought in a kit with cleaning pads etc. I tried the brush that came with the machine first with Pauls cleaning fluid, I wasn’t getting the coverage I was expecting. So I changed to the Disc doctor products which seemed better, but with these you have to do a rinse. When I changed to using The Right One fluid along with the disc doctor pads I got the best results of all.

At present I only have one nozzle so I’m cleaning my recently bought new records before moving on to my older stuff. I’m amazed how greasy my hands are, I’m a surgical assistant and scrub my hands at least 4 or 5 times a day and I would have said I had dry hands. Some of my Beatles mono collection were in really tight card sleeves and I had to pull the record out, rather than just let it slide out. Even this minimal contact left marks that were a bitch to shift from the otherwise brand new discs. I brought home some Nitrile gloves from work so I don’t have to worry about inadvertent contact with the surface. I cleaned about a dozen discs, and was probably a bit free with the fluid but at the end I only got a few drops out of the drain tube, I wondered if flushing the tank out at the end might be worth a try?

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Interesting. I too have a new shiny Okki Nokki. I shall follow your progress with interest; for now I plan to use the supplied fluid and brush. I've purchased some distilled water (rather than use my stock of de-ionised water I've used with my SpinClean) to mix with the fluid. Using the machine for the first time tomorrow...

Just a few lines on the machine itself, I had to send the first one back as it was damage in transit but the sales people at Frank Harvey (hifix) were excellent and replaced it no quibble. It seems solidly made and is smart in appearance, I chose white. Several reviews had complained that they can be noisy but I was pleasantly surprised by the sound level, particularly when it warmed up after half a dozen discs or so, no excessive heat just warm from continuous use. I do wonder if most of the fluid is evaporated by the suction and warmth will this lead to build up of gunk lining the tank, as mentioned earlier I may try flushing the tank or maybe priming it with some fresh water at the start? will have another session tomorrow.

The amount of 'gunk' in the tank also depends on what you're using as a cleansing liquid. I mostly use organic solutions for my stage 2 cleaning, L'ArtduSon or Tarkett BioClean. And they do leave more residue which allows mold and stuff to form in the tank.
(I always use an Isopropyl/Pure water/Washup liquid in the first part of cleaning a record)
I've had my Okki for about four years and it was sent back once due some strange effects. There was a constant hum when not in use, but connected to mains. This seems to have sent out some galvanic currents in different parts of the machine which caused corrosion. This mainly affected the suction pipe which lost its surface treatment and of course stopped it from moving freely in its mount.
The other issue was that the center tap on the platter had too few and too loose coils exposed which in the end caused med to strip them... :/
Anyways, my machine was repaired, the faulty electronics board was exchanged, the suction pipe was renewed and the the center tap was rebuild by a workshop, replacing the coils for one with more than a centimeter of coils, and much tighter.
However, there is still a very low hum when mains are connected and due to this i never leave it connected when not in use.
Function has always been top notch though, except for the issue with the coils that is!

/Mike

Just got a Milty Zerostat 3, instructions are rubbish so I watch some YouTube clips to get the general idea. Anybody know what the nozzle/cap thingy is for?

It's to test if it works. There's a dim little bulb that lights up when the triggers realised.

Dunno..ive got an older one.. Id imagine it will be pretty similar in use though. Fires pos and neg ions onto record surface i think.... Nice and slowly does it and it does work

found this tread while researching cleaning solutions, Just in the process of ordering one of these

http://www.squeakycleanvinyl.com/

looks great & had good reports from other forums so giving it a whirl, he custom makes them to you "color" of choice (god I hate that spelling!!)

anybody here got one, did a search but I had no results pop up

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1695/...5d1bb2e0_c.jpg

It's on its way

Looks ok for a manual.. Like it that its evolved

Looks like a very cost-effective solution, that.

Has anyone any experience of the recently released (I think) Pro-Ject RCM the Vinyl Cleaner VC-S, it looks like a reasonable VFM option...:)

http://project-audio.com/main.php?prod=vc-s

FYI I've got about 1K albums/12"s that are in serious need of a wash!

I was going to buy the Pro-Ject only a few of weeks ago from a trade member here. I didn't and I won't go in to the reasons why but it certainly looks a good machine and priced well too. You must let us know how it turns out.

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Originally Posted by The Black Adder

I was going to buy the Pro-Ject only a few of weeks ago from a trade member here. I didn't and I won't go in to the reasons why but it certainly looks a good machine and priced well too. You must let us know how it turns out.

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I rarely listen to my vinyl these days, a big wash, and perhaps a new turntable might be the way forward...;)