Richard's hi-fi ranting 'Room 101'

Richard, businesses often start because an Engineer designs something he fancies and tries to sell it, if he's extremely lucky he'll succeed, he may even create and opening for others to follow, but all too often he turns out to be a one hit wonder and his company lasts only until something else becomes "flavour of the month". Before this happens and while his company has a buzz going, marketing can make all the difference

Marketing provides an analysis of a market and a strategy for entering it, it's a skill and the information is, I think, interesting.

Right now there are enormous changes taking place, all providing more data and all making things more interesting than for years.

iPod Docks are the big sellers right now and everyone is jumping on the Bandwagon or, as the Australians call it, Chicken Farming.

Steve that's because you're an old Luddite and won't accept what large chunks of the population and many Audiophiles have: The iPod Shuffle is comparable with the best CD players in sound quality.

Sound quality does matter and it getting cheaper and more accessible, it's just that some don't want to believe it and others have hi fi systems that aren't able to realise the benefits, or the owners aren't able to recognise good sound when they hear it.

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Originally Posted by Ashley James

Richard, businesses often start because an Engineer designs something he fancies and tries to sell it, if he's extremely lucky he'll succeed, he may even create and opening for others to follow, but all too often he turns out to be a one hit wonder and his company lasts only until something else becomes "flavour of the month". Before this happens and while his company has a buzz going, marketing can make all the difference

Marketing provides an analysis of a market and a strategy for entering it, it's a skill and the information is, I think, interesting.

Right now there are enormous changes taking place, all providing more data and all making things more interesting than for years.

iPod Docks are the big sellers right now and everyone is jumping on the Bandwagon or, as the Australians call it, Chicken Farming.

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Nope, wrong yet again. Read the thread through. What you say used to happen and it happenned because if anything threatened the status quo it was sat upon and killed. For the mafia the lesson was learned in the 1980's too many small companies with great products were appearing, I could list them but there are too many. Well come the early 90's recession the mafia was so established they just dictated the selling terms to the retailers. "You support us and only sell our products and we will give you extra profit" retailer contracts, strictly illegal and against all the free market laws that came in at the end of retail price maintenance. Setting retail prices, killing competition. The reatailer loved it, slurp slurp. The small companies got conned, "yes I will sell you products, give me one to dem" rarely switched on, only used to sell *off*, if demmed then cold and used in incompatible cabling electrical supply etc, anything to make it sound worse so he can sell what he *has to* reach his yearly dictated turn over figures with Linn, Naim, Mission, Meridian, Kef, B & W etc, who could have been part of this ;).

Well most of the small guys went bust apart from the ones that jumped on the burgioning Far Eastern export market, and then that was largely killed by the Far Eastern currency crisis in 1997. British hi-fi industry gems killed by bullshit marketing and illegal selling contracts. Look for them now on ebay they make good money, people are finding them again. It is changing, now adays they can't hurt us, we rise or fall on merit, if the very freedom we have acquired is allowed us by the forum trough snufflers.

In the early 90's there was a trade magazine called Inside Hi-Fi run by Stan Curtis's wife. It wanted letters and rep of the state of the industry, so I tried a couple of times. I have lost the first one but this was the follow up after most of the industry had been killed apart from the exporters.

This was 1992 or 3

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Write Inside

Dear Angela,

Seeing it is not only you but some of your more prominent!! readers asking for more letters in your mag, I thought I would make another attempt at the bubbly. I would like to follow up on the theme of my letter of last year. That letter enticed two 'phone calls, one from Ivor Tiefenbrun explaining at great length!!! his dealer contracts. After I managed to get a word in edgeways I was told if I won't listen there is no point in trying to educate me. And one from Russ Andrews agreeing with everything I said. What this says of the industry or its view of me I will leave open for your interpretation. Apathy rules OK.

What very few people seem to understand is that the so-called cottage side of our industry is to a large extent thriving and a large number of small to medium size companies are exporting like mad. The fact that the restrictive trading practices and pure mismanagement of the retail side of the British Hi-Fi industry has nearly ruined the industry here has forced these companies to do this and in the process they have become an unrecognised British exporting success story. The following is a breakdown of my last years turnover according to country. Please do not consider our position to be unique it probably applies to 80% of UK Hi-Fi companies.

China/Hong Kong 24%
Singapore 5% Taiwan 21%
UK 4% France 12%
Greece 3% Russia 7%
Italy 2% Indonesia 7%
Holland 2% Malaysia 6%
Norway 2%

The remaining 3% split amongst another 7 countries.

When your home market takes only 4% of your turnover you can guess where my priorities lie, though this does give me the freedom to call a spade a spade as I perceive it.

There seems to have been a decision made by a number of leading manufacturers and retailers dating back to the post boom days of the late 1980's that if they were going to have to put up with a receding market place the thing to do was to get a greater share of that smaller market. Hence the poor customer walks into a major retailer these days to be faced with a choice of 4-6 manufactures and these are boringly the same manufactures shop to shop, apart from the valve propeller heads and thank God for them, they are the only spark of originality in the shops today. Well, I would like to say surely it is time for a change, as the recession is no longer with us shouldn't we try to pursue excellence again instead of short term expedience. The whole industry will benefit and the major manufacturers will have to improve their products instead of relying on lack of competition, which must be for the good. In my opinion the like of Bill Hutchinson and Julian Richer in their own very different ways are addressing this and if more independents sat back and took a good look at their businesses and break out of their complacency and looked at who is controlling them, perhaps they will join the battle of expanding the market instead of griping and complaining and acting as new age Luddites.

Richard Dunn
NVA


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Originally Posted by Ashley James

Steve that's because you're an old Luddite and won't accept what large chunks of the population and many Audiophiles have: The iPod Shuffle is comparable with the best CD players in sound quality.

Sound quality does matter and it getting cheaper and more accessible, it's just that some don't want to believe it and others have hi fi systems that aren't able to realise the benefits, or the owners aren't able to recognise good sound when they hear it.

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Will you please start your own thread to perpetuate and practice your marketing skills :mental:

Hello everyone,, tentatively.

It's all a bit complex. I'm firmly from the "Peter Walker" school of HiFi, in that the replayed recording should sound like the original event. Others think that the HiFi set should make it sound good according to their personal preferences. It is the latter concept that causes the trouble. If you will excuse me for a moment, I met and spoke with Julian Vereker personally, over the possible purchase of his bicycle company, and I though he was "rubbish" at hifi. His stuff sounded wrong and had awful engineering, particularly the power supplies. He then said he would sell the punters another Power supply which worked a bit better as an "upgrade". I's my personal opinion that that kind of activity is what has damaged the hifi business so badly. No one with experience and education wants the kind of deal Robert describes and is therefore very wary of getting a poor deal from some hifi dealers.

It's important to understand I'm not trying to start an anti-anyones'-'name' stuff as there are several hifi makers guilty of the same practice.

I replaced my HiFi system recently going from Studer-Revox to AVI kit.

I don't feel that Ashley and his company is anything but "one of us" and does not seek to sell a product which is poor vfm with unjustified claims and bullshit. Many people have said it too cheap to be any good, but I have found it to be very well made, and very good vfm, and to give a very good sound.

Others have said they want their hifi to be more "musical" and "involving", but in this digotal age that is a very easy thing to add if desired. What you can't correct are distortions and colourations, and that is where hifi makers should concentrate together with good, reasonably priced engineering.

Richard I think the situation is more complex than you imagine. For a start What Hi Fi is very powerful in all this. They gave several awards Cyrus recently and I understand that Cyrus is the big seller of the moment and that others of equal merit are doing far less well. Is PR playing a part in this and are they furthering certain manufacturers' causes?

Then there are discount deals done between retailers and manufacturers where larger ones can extract can obtain colossal discounts and then share it with shop sales staff to "steer them". Is this in part responsible for bloated prices? I think this is an are where customers are becoming suspicious.

Manufacturers cannot dictate to dealers and dealers aren't good salesmen, most hand over what customers ask for, therefore they must create a situation where customers ask for their products. Bose and B & O etc can afford to do this but even the bigger manufacturers advertising, isn't IMO, as powerful as Five Star reviews.

Therefore I think it's a cosy relationship between dealers, manufacturers and press that's sustaining the Status Quo, however, because the market is undergoing fairly dramatic changes at the moment, ones that aren't popular with retailers and certain manufacturers, I think we may see things change.

Specialist hi end dealers are relatively small players compared with certain chains.

BTW Richard, I haven't worked out exactly what it is you wish to place in room 101 ?

It would be nice to know who makes/markets what! :scratch:

Other than Richard = NVA, I haven't got a clue! :confused:

I don't manufacture anything, however I do advise on digital music matters to anyone by fee arangement. it's usually manufacturers, dealers or large organisations like churches, or composers and publishers of music.

I participate on this forum as a hobbyist who is interested in hifi and making my own recordings. I do not seek to tout for business.

I met Ashley James because he is the boss of AVI, the firm I elected to supply my new hifi. I auditioned 20 or 30 brands.

AVI are very hospitable and accommodating to customers. Pretty much anyone who wishes to buy any of their procucts may visit the factory to audition and evaluate the items in friendly conditions and get a good lunch included as well. They may also discuss technical details directly with the product designer as well if they wish. I consider this is exceptionally good service and well worth the effort. It's amuch better way of buying the goods than going to a dealer who is possibly only going to push the old stock that he's stuck with or get you to buy the brand with the biggest markup.

It's a refreshing change to deal with AVI IMO.

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Originally Posted by jcbrum

I don't manufacture anything, however I do advise on digital music matters to anyone by fee arangement. it's usually manufacturers, dealers or large organisations like churches, or composers and publishers of music.

I participate on this forum as a hobbyist who is interested in hifi and making my own recordings. I do not seek to tout for business.

I met Ashley James because he is the boss of AVI, the firm I elected to supply my new hifi. I auditioned 20 or 30 brands.

AVI are very hospitable and accommodating to customers. Pretty much anyone who wishes to buy any of their procucts may visit the factory to audition and evaluate the items in friendly conditions and get a good lunch included as well. They may also discuss technical details directly with the product designer as well if they wish. I consider this is exceptionally good service and well worth the effort. It's amuch better way of buying the goods than going to a dealer who is possibly only going to push the old stock that he's stuck with or get you to buy the brand with the biggest markup.

It's a refreshing change to deal with AVI IMO.

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Thank you for proving my point, hi-jacked by marketing bullshit.

Find anywhere I have refered to any nva product, how it sounds, what amazing good value it is. How its reproduction of music changed my life - bullshit - bullshit - bullshit. This thread is about the very problems you are recreating. Go away with your AVI bullshit, I am not giving you any NVA bullshit. If you wish to contribute to this thread stop talking about product. The point is not product it is music and why large elements of this industry is stopping individuals finding what they want. Who the hell do you think you are telling them what to want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You and Ashley work as a team I have watched you at work at other forums, *I* do not want to be part of it. I couldn't give a toss how good or bad AVI is, you made your decision so live with it, don't foist it on me.

What is going on here is *exactly* what I am talking about, you two have paid yer £50 at the other forums so you have your bullshit freedom, but not in this thread.