Shuggie's SL-1210 Blog Revived

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I'm toying with the idea of doing the faceoff between the Kab ps1200 and the Timestep PSU. As I see it I can have them connectable, but not switched on, simultaneously to the deck and I would be able to decide which was best for me.

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That would be most interesting. I still haven't fully decided yet myself on that one :)

Dave,

Do you think you could set up a 1210 fitted with an SA-750D and DL-103SA with a Time Step PSU for when I come down, hopefully later in the week, and we could do an A/B/A comparison between my identical deck and yours fitted with the KAB PSU?

I think it's about time we put this one to bed :smoking:

If the Time Step wins (to my ears) then you'll have a sale!

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Dave Cawley

The SP-10 is not running flat out!

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Ah, so it's the motor running flat out on the SL-1210 that's the hindering factor, not the amount of torque? I see, or am I simplifying things too much? :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

No one is "badgering" you, nor are you being subjected to "evangelical insistence". I am only offering an alternative experience which is equally as valid as yours, but you seem to want to be confrontational. I am still convinced, based on said experience, that what you're hearing is largely to do with the sonic signature of your tonearm, not the turntable itself. I wish you luck though in finding what you're looking for :)

Marco.

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Perhaps my terminology was a bit strong, and I apologise for that. I am certainly not wishing to be confrontational; however you sometimes seem unable to accept that others may have different experiences and (most importantly) preferences to yours. As for the tonearm, I have used it on the Technics, Spacedeck and the Kenwood KD-770D, so I'm well acquainted with its character (or lack of), and I don't believe that it's the issue here. It's a whole lot better than the standard Technics arm!

What I'm looking for is an utterly fiddle-free, pain-free turntable that plays music as well as the Spacedeck did, or indeed a Linn, or a Project Genie;). The Technics may well be that beast, but clearly not yet. Dave's points made above have interested me greatly, and now that I understand more about it, I will have the motor dynamics mod done. It's a relatively small price to pay to give it another chance.

This is a good-natured forum and as a result the one that I prefer to inhabit, but being good natured requires understanding. All I have done is report my own experiences, which chime with some others', but not with all. I understand that your experience of the SL-1210, with different arm/cart etc and within the context of a system quite different from mine, is very positive. But it's not my experience. Therein lies the fun and the power of the online community to discuss and occasionally debate such things. I sincerely hope that this blog is of some use to those reading it.

Marc, it's not just the PSU, this is the very point I'm trying to get across. And yes, as I said, it's the motor running flat out that is an issue.

With the house in many pieces, I can't demo anything right now, I even get brick dust in my porridge.......

Dave

Hi Shuggie,

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Perhaps my terminology was a bit strong, and I apologise for that.

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No problem. Successfully communicating your intended meaning is always a challenge on forums! :)

It was this bit I was struggling with in particular regarding the 1210 being in your words:

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anything other than a well-engineered budget deck, with a limited ability to play music (rather than deliver Hi-Fi fireworks)

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Now, don't get me wrong, I don't for one second doubt that this is what you're hearing, so please don't think I'm rubbishing your valid experiences in any way, but when I read stuff like that I can't do anything else but shake my head strongly in disbelief as it's completely contrary to what I'm hearing with my own modified 1210. And anyone who heard the 1210 through my Croft preamp and TD Copper valve amp I brought to the recent bake-off would I'm sure have felt the same way.

Look at it from my point of view for a second...

Apart from the fact that I've owned some expensive turntables in the past costing many times that of my modified 1210 (I can list them if you wish) and the 1210 outperforms them all by a significant margin, I've recently compared my deck to two very good SP10s (considered by many to be one of the best turntables ever made), one fitted with a £1.8k SMEV tonearm and dedicated Time Step PSU, not to mention various other highly respected Garrards and Thorens TD124s - and my 1210 has compared very favourably with all of them; the difference in many cases being negligible, boiling down basically to the personal preference of a different sonic presentation rather than any one deck being unquestionably superior.

Could that possibly happen in a month of Sundays if the results I were getting were the same as yours? :smoking:

Furthermore, Dave Cawley himself is on record as saying (and I agree based on my listening experience) that one of his modified SL-1200s is, I quote: "95% as good as an SP10", so if it's 95% as good as such a superb T/T as an SP10, what does that tell you?

Quite simply, there has to be valid reasons that explain the huge dichotomy between what you're reporting about the 1210 and me, which must be to do with much more than simply personal preference.

I think it's important that both of our observations are challenged and fully investigated in order that potential buyers of a modified 1210 are in possession of as much valid information as possible to allow them to make an informed decision and that they're not put off by any incomplete information. That's not me being "unable to accept that others may have different experiences", but rather me being determined that others have as much information as possible in which to help them make the right decision and don't make a mistake that they might later regret.

Do you see what I'm getting at? :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Dave Cawley

Marc, it's not just the PSU, this is the very point I'm trying to get across. And yes, as I said, it's the motor running flat out that is an issue.

With the house in many pieces, I can't demo anything right now, I even get brick dust in my porridge.......

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Okay dokes, no worries. But it's something we'll have to put to bed sooner rather than later as I want to know which PSU works better (for me). I'm sure other people are also curious to know the results :)

Marco.

Marco, once again, it isn't a case of "which PSU", it's the holistic view, where the sum of the parts can be greater than their individual worth.

Talking about Organic, yesterday I had organic tomatoes with brick dust, not very holistic at all.............

Dave

I competely agree, Dave. But I still need to know which PSU I prefer from my own point of view in the context of my deck and system. The "what if?" factor needs to be resolved :)

Organic tomatoes are lovely used in Bruschetta - sliced Italian crusty loaf toasted and then topped with said tomatoes, garlic, chopped fresh basil, and drissled with extra virgin olive oil... Nom nom nom!

Marco.

I have to agree with Marco here in that comments referring to the 1210 as sounding like a budget deck just don't tally with what I'm hearing and suggest that the synergy between that set of components is just all wrong.

What I hear with my combo of uprated 1210 and partnering components is a deck that comfortably beats the Roksan Xerxes / SMEIV / AT OC9 / EAR 834P system I used to own, and blows away the more recent Strathclyde STD-305M / Michell TecnoArm(A) / Grado Prestige Gold I had more recently. In fact, the only component I can definitely attribute greyness to is the Michell arm, still suffering from some of its Rega origins. I know this because I used to run a different arm in the Strathclyde (SME III, which was soft but not grey).

Current deck, for the sake of completion: SL-1210 with TimeStep and motor dynamics mod / Jelco SA250ST / Denon DL-160 / Sound Hi-Fi mat / Gram Amp 2SE. I have also removed some internal plastic trays for further micro-detail. It sounds alive, dynamic, detailed, uncoloured and compellingly listenable.

Aside from personal preferences having perhaps a significant influence in these differing perceptions that I am reading (with great interest, thank you all), I am left wondering as to what contribution is being made by differing supports/footers.
Without your experience of different decks Martin, I would have to say that my experience of the TecnoarmA on my heavily modded P2 would not be something I would describe as "grey", not with a DL-110, not with a DL-103 and definitely not with the DL-301 I am presently using.
The P2 is running a Groovetracer platter and subplatter and fitted with SRM silent base and bearing and motor damping rings, motor end bearing and of course the Tecnoarm.
I also use a 5mm Achromat and michell clamp on the acrylic platter as I found that an improvement over the bare acrylic(with or without the clamp).
It most definitely seems there are better and not so good combinations of TT & arm even as there better and not so good combinations of cartridge and arm.
I repeat my curiosity WRT supports of one variety or another and their effects.