Jimbos Audio ramblings

Actually I'd have thought that the wall behind you would have a major effect on the sound, which would reach your ears directly from the speakers but also bounce back at you from behind.

As an example of what I'm saying (though rather extreme), was when I saw Happy Mondays at Manchester's G-Mex. Where we were stood we had the direct sound followed a split second later by the sound bouncing back from the rear of the venue. Very strange. And I'm thinking that similar could happen to a lesser degree in a listening room.

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Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony

Actually I'd have thought that the wall behind you would have a major effect on the sound, which would reach your ears directly from the speakers but also bounce back at you from behind.

As an example of what I'm saying (though rather extreme), was when I saw Happy Mondays at Manchester's G-Mex. Where we were stood we had the direct sound followed a split second later by the sound bouncing back from the rear of the venue. Very strange. And I'm thinking that similar could happen to a lesser degree in a listening room.

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Your absolutely right Steve the back wall had more effect on the sound than I imagined. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Your absolutely right Steve the back wall had more effect on the sound than I imagined. :eek:

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I discovered some years back that just closing the curtain on the window behind me was the equivalent of an entire system upgrade.

Really no exaggeration and that's just a curtain (albeit a quite thick thermal one).

Prior to that I always wondered why my system sounded better in the winter (when it was dark when I got in so curtain closed all the time).

This is why I am always saying you don't need to use expensive and possibly low WAF 'dedicated treatments' to get big gains.

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Originally Posted by Macca

I discovered some years back that just closing the curtain on the window behind me was the equivalent of an entire system upgrade.

Really no exaggeration and that's just a curtain (albeit a quite thick thermal one).

Prior to that I always wondered why my system sounded better in the winter (when it was dark when I got in so curtain closed all the time).

This is why I am always saying you don't need to use expensive and possibly low WAF 'dedicated treatments' to get big gains.

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Great observation Martin and I agree you can go a long way using heavy curtains and furniture to help with room acoustics.

I wonder if the occasionally reported phenomena of 'digital glare' is not down to an overly lively acoustic, especially if the first reflection points and the wall/window behind the listening position (if it is quite close which it usually is) are flat, hard surfaces?

You see that a lot in pics of people's rooms.

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Originally Posted by Macca

I wonder if the occasionally reported phenomena of 'digital glare' is not down to an overly lively acoustic, especially if the first reflection points and the wall/window behind the listening position (if it is quite close which it usually is) are flat, hard surfaces?

You see that a lot in pics of people's rooms.

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Very interesting point. I have a lot of thoughts going round my head as a result of the room acoustic evaluation and if you go back to the article I posted up there has been a fair bit of work done to measure room acoustics and their influence on timing especially top end frequencies. If all the reflections reach your ears at different timings ( which they do in an untreated room) then you get lots of things happening, one of which maybe digital glare. I am not so sure but it does not help with digital recordings which suffer from timing issues anyway. But none the less I think digital glare can be accentuated by poor acoustics.

The greatest area of interest for me and this is from my own observations/listening is that the better the acoustics the better the recorded information reaches your ears giving a more accurate reflection of what the recording actually should sound like. It is also known that timing issues also reflect tonal information as they are not reconstructed by the brain sufficiently accurately to give a true representation of what was recorded. This is what I have perceived in the last week with the last panel coming into effect on the rear wall.

Speaker manufacturers also go to quite some lengths to ensure the drive units also work compensating for timing issues which is great but probably undone
with poor room acoustics.

I am going slowly with the panels as I don't want to introduce too much at once as I think there will be a tipping point where the room becomes unbalanced between live and acoustically damped. I am fascinated by what I have heard so far and wonder where it will all end.

PS . I have heard some rooms that have gone to the extreme with room acoustics and either a) they have gone too far or b) they show up the weaknesses of the electronics and speakers being used!

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Originally Posted by Macca

I discovered some years back that just closing the curtain on the window behind me was the equivalent of an entire system upgrade.

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When I was decorating the bathroom and it was empty, I tried clapping my hands to listen to the reverb and it was very noticeable. I hung only one thick bath towel on a rail and clapped again and the reverb was gone. Illustrates the principle.

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Originally Posted by walpurgis

When I was decorating the bathroom and it was empty, I tried clapping my hands to listen to the reverb and it was very noticeable. I hung only one thick bath towel on a rail and clapped again and the reverb was gone. Illustrates the principle.

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Used to call it 'flutter echoes', probably still do. Many of my jobs involved working in bare empty rooms, where conversation was more difficult sometimes to follow when the radio was on, the sounds all bled into each other.

My kitchen is terrible for conversation as it is all hard surfaces and really bad acoustics. Putting the glasses and plates away in the cupboard can be painful because of the noise. Walk into the lounge though and its got a hushed silence.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

The greatest area of interest for me and this is from my own observations/listening is that the better the acoustics the better the recorded information reaches your ears giving a more accurate reflection of what the recording actually should sound like. It is also known that timing issues also reflect tonal information as they are not reconstructed by the brain sufficiently accurately to give a true representation of what was recorded. This is what I have perceived in the last week with the last panel coming into effect on the rear wall.

Speaker manufacturers also go to quite some lengths to ensure the drive units also work compensating for timing issues which is great but probably undone
with poor room acoustics.

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Tonal balance is a function of frequency response, and time domain is just the flip-side of frequency response so I suppose there is going to be some inter-relationship there.