Alternative platters ?

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Originally Posted by Oldpinkman

What happens when you plonk a heavy record weight (high mass) on a technics deck? (2nd time of asking) (ps you'll like the answer);)

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To my ears, it sounds crap (if that's what we're talking about, but if not, it's what concerns me the most anyway).

I know that Martin uses a fairly hefty Stillpoints one, which he claims to good effect (and I trust his ears), but any of the high-mass weights I've used so far with the Techinics have imparted a similar (ponderous, 'dense') sonic signature, as I've described is imparted with a high-mass platter, and which I hugely dislike.

Consequently, unless Martin can demonstrate differently next time I'm down at his place, the Bruil weight which I currently use (340g) is the heaviest I am likely to go with such items :)

Marco.

The Stillpoints weighs 673g, so not in the super-heavy bracket. I love what it does, no ponderous sonic signature here.

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Originally Posted by WOStantonCS100

Martin, Marco,

Again I have to ask guys. Are you saying the "warble effect" is present when using heavy platters such as a Vantage upgraded or MN bonded platter? If so, when did that become noticeable? As I'm considering all things, I have revisited this thread: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...t-Marco-Towers wherein I (so far) have not found any reference to such an issue.

I'm confused here, are you guys saying it was purely sonic preference, or that there is an actual issue?

Also, if there are current users of either of these platters, I would love to know if you are experiencing the "warble effect" or not.

Thanks.

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I have the MN bearing and the MN copper-ally platter which is significantly heavier than the original platter (even with the 6mm thick original platter mat). There was never the slightest amount of warble, neither with 33,3 nor with 45 rpm. The MN bearing brought the biggest increase of SQ but also the heavy platter was a very worthwhile upgrade and brought a lot of "security" to the rhythm which was not as pronounced with the original platter + SDS isoplatmat + Herbie's mat 2 (a combination which was very good sounding!).
I had speed problems at 45 rpm with MN bearing and original platter but these were the dreadful "motor dynamics mod" from Dave Cawley. Removing the two components (a resistor and a capacitor) from the PCB restored the torque to it's former glory. Maybe all the mods to the electronics in Andy's (Rexton's) Techy did reduce torque like the "motor dynamics mod"?
Contrary to popular belief I think the flywheel-effect of a higher mass platter (like the MN copper-ally platter) is beneficial to the sound. At least that's what my ears tell me!
:sofa::sorry:

All the mods were done by Paul Hynes. The slider pitch and its components are still alive and well on my PCB. I have no idea why 45rpm is a tad slow. As stated in an earlier post I would optimise the deck further and remove all remnants of 45rpm from my deck, I simply dont use it. I have a Garrard 301 so if I need to play any 45's I'll use that (and the deck is no slouch either :eyebrows:).

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Originally Posted by MartinT

The Stillpoints weighs 673g, so not in the super-heavy bracket. I love what it does, no ponderous sonic signature here.

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I don't doubt that, Martin, but I'd need to hear it for myself on my own T/T :)

Marco.

Hi Andy,

The only things I did to the deck were to repair the damaged regulator modules after your soldering mishap and replace various on board power supply capacitors on your replacement motor board. I left all the other circuitry alone because, at the time, I had not verified any other mods myself on my own deck. I used my standard platter to test it and it was fine on test.

Aside from the platter issue there are other possibilities. The replacement motor board that you acquired was second hand. Perhaps there is a minor fault in the control circuitry on the replacement board that affects the 45 RPM speed control enough to prevent it reaching 45 RPM with a heavy platter. If this is so, it may have been there at purchase or it may have developed later on.

There would only be a couple of reasons why a motor board would be offered second hand. Either the original deck/arm itself had been thrashed to the point of being trashed mechanically and the motor board salvaged from it, or the motor board was malfunctioning and had been replaced, with the malfunctioning board being sold on.

If I think of anything further that might be helpful I will get back to you.

Regards
Paul

lol 37 pages,
OP had made a decision by post 6.:)

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Originally Posted by Paul Hynes

Hi Andy,

The only things I did to the deck were to repair the damaged regulator modules after your soldering mishap and replace various on board power supply capacitors on your replacement motor board. I left all the other circuitry alone because, at the time, I had not verified any other mods myself on my own deck. I used my standard platter to test it and it was fine on test.

Aside from the platter issue there are other possibilities. The replacement motor board that you acquired was second hand. Perhaps there is a minor fault in the control circuitry on the replacement board that affects the 45 RPM speed control enough to prevent it reaching 45 RPM with a heavy platter. If this is so, it may have been there at purchase or it may have developed later on.

There would only be a couple of reasons why a motor board would be offered second hand. Either the original deck/arm itself had been thrashed to the point of being trashed mechanically and the motor board salvaged from it, or the motor board was malfunctioning and had been replaced, with the malfunctioning board being sold on.

If I think of anything further that might be helpful I will get back to you.

Regards
Paul

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Paul I'm in no way slating your work, in fact my deck came back transformed when It came back home, again many thanks. I just wanted the other guys to get a grip on what mod work had been done to the main pcb (which you describe perfectly :) ). Dont worry about having to get back to me, I'm very very happy with the deck I own. You just keep thinking of ways to more out of the 1210. ;)

True we have 37 pages but at least it details the current status of platter development and con-current problems which may arise from using said platters.

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Originally Posted by krugdoktor

I have the MN bearing and the MN copper-ally platter which is significantly heavier than the original platter (even with the 6mm thick original platter mat). There was never the slightest amount of warble, neither with 33,3 nor with 45 rpm. The MN bearing brought the biggest increase of SQ but also the heavy platter was a very worthwhile upgrade and brought a lot of "security" to the rhythm which was not as pronounced with the original platter + SDS isoplatmat + Herbie's mat 2 (a combination which was very good sounding!).
I had speed problems at 45 rpm with MN bearing and original platter but these were the dreadful "motor dynamics mod" from Dave Cawley. Removing the two components (a resistor and a capacitor) from the PCB restored the torque to it's former glory. Maybe all the mods to the electronics in Andy's (Rexton's) Techy did reduce torque like the "motor dynamics mod"?Contrary to popular belief I think the flywheel-effect of a higher mass platter (like the MN copper-ally platter) is beneficial to the sound. At least that's what my ears tell me!
:sofa::sorry:

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Hi Michael,
Your post beat me to it on the subject of feedback-loop mods.
Martin, when you talk of warble with a heavy platter, was this before or after you removed the "motor-dynamics-mod".
As I understand it from DC he "invented" this mod to make the SL1200 sound more like a SP12
If there are any of you who have this mod on you PCB then get rid of it.
Further when we talk about heavy platters, what weight are we talking about??
My Copper Bonded Platter weighs in at about 10Kg and as Mike says he has nothing but praise for it, and comimg from Vienna he must know!
Are there heavier platters in use?