So tell us more about your knowledge and experience with preamps. How is it then for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi
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So tell us more about your knowledge and experience with preamps. How is it then for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi
I like the 47. I have owned it for 8 years but have listened to other phono preamps. Valves and Silicon.
That's rather brief. What other phono stages have you listened too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi
What phono preamp have I listen to that gives me the most forum credit? There has been Whest, Sonneteer, Croft, Gryphon, Lehmann, AVM, Graham Slee, Nagra, 47 Lab, plus more too. Not all in my home. Some in shops and some in the homes of friends and shows. My experience is that you have to understand what the measurements mean before you compare phono preamps to other ones, or the meaning of the numbers is misunderstood. For example "phono stage has a SNR of -151DBv" OK. but what is that figure at 0.3mV? for a MC or for 2m black?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
ASR says it's close to -60db when fed MC or MM level of mV...long way from the -151db you thought you had bought. I like to read ASR for this reason. They have a standardised measurement system for themselves and everything is compared in the same way. The Measurements will not tell you if it give you pleasure to your ear, but they will tell you how it is performing against a standard. Then we can asses how well designed it really is.
You can take what you want from measurements but good luck trying to work out if A+B+C actually sounds any good. Like I said not everything that measure well in whatever way you want to measure it sounds good. You are obviously a "measurements" guy and pay homage to ASR but all that becomes pretty pointless if something sounds crap.
There are products that are designed to measure well and products that are designed to sound good and ignore measurements.
The best way to measure anything is to plug it into the rest of your kit and listen to it!:)
interesting perspective but not sure it is possible to design something like a phono stage without measuring various performance factors or at least simulating them on a computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
You have to relate measurements to audibility. Equipment that measures poorly compared to state of the art is still unlikely to be bad enough for its problems to make it sound bad.
By far the easiest thing to hear is variations in frequency response so accuracy of the RIAA equalisation will make a big difference. Way more than distortion since that will be swamped by the distortion in the pickup cartridge anyway.
Lots of stages I have seen measured are some way out from accurate eq. They won't sound bad just 'different.' Then we confuse frequency response differences we personally prefer with 'better' and it gets all mixed up.
Good points there Martin but although measurements are used to design a piece of kit there is a difference between measuring in order to make something function or designing a product just so it measures well.
Measurements are the result of the design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I only highlight that iFi specs are not as truthful as you think. If you didn't use the spec in your post I would not have said anything.
The ultimate measurement is the ear of the listener.
Err I think you need measurements to design something. You don't just design it and then measure it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi
BTW ASR make their measurements using their parameters and equipment and but the manufacturer might be measuring using a different method/equipment. Unfortunately I could not find out how they measure their equipment.
Last point. Do you really think I would be bothered if the ifi measurements were truthful or not. I would probably be far more interested in something that measured badly and then found out it sounded great. I know one or two items like this;).
Remember this, I like distortion, it just needs to be the right kind of distortion.:)