Cheers, all the cablers I have are white and the same, so I either have 4 AV's or 4 audio! Immediate impression with the two new ones feeding the amps is deeper bass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welder
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Cheers, all the cablers I have are white and the same, so I either have 4 AV's or 4 audio! Immediate impression with the two new ones feeding the amps is deeper bass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welder
Just had a look at the boxes the two new ones came in- they are AD80300qn2M, which I think are the audio ones?
That sounds familiar :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
The audio ones are white.
The others are grey.
Nope, sat here looking at two grey sets of Silver Series RCA audio, twin shilded, split centre pin, hybrid construction.
The AV set from Franks original link are white, quad shielded etc.
Yours experience is obviously different from mine.
All I know is that my system sounds better with the arrangement I now have. The grey 75 ohm quad shielded ones are in a box beside me now & the white ones are plugged in. That's how it will stay.
I’m not on about the experience Chris, or which sounds best. I’m talking about the colour designation of the particular types of cable.
The white ones may well sound better to you but to the best of my knowledge they are the AV quad shielded cables Frank linked to and not those Belkin designate as RCA audio.
Something's awry. I bought 4 of the sets that the original post linked to. They were white. They remain plugged in.
I also bought some others from another source. They were grey. I posted a link to them. They are set aside.
I’m not being awkward Chris honestly :) but there has been quite a lot of confusion over which type of cable is which and my concern is people here don’t buy the RCA grey, twin shielded cables thinking they are the same as the AV quad shielded that you prfer and Frank originally linked to :doh:
I don’t think the white AV cables you prefer and Frank originally linked to are available any more.
The grey, thinner twin shielded RCA audio cables are.
Interestingly I prefer the grey ones but that’s for another time ;)
I'm not suggesting you're being awkward, I'm just trying to understand for myself the various different configurations that are/were available.
I'm rather confused as I'm sure others are. Maybe this is why all these different types came onto the market so cheaply at the same time - the range(s) were not clearly differentiated in the packaging & they needed rationalising?
No kidding, i have a few of the OP (Effem) cables sitting here though & one day i'll get round to using them, soon hopefully :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Obviously i can't comment now, but given there cheapness it really was a no brainer as pieces of crap could cost more :eyebrows:
Ooooooer missus, I didn't realise such confusion could arise :scratch:
As far as I was aware the audio cables came in 2 variants, one was of a decent diameter covered in a white shroud and a cheaper variant with a smaller diameter covered in a grey shroud. Both are called RCA audio cables and I thought the "Silver Series" referred only to the white covered type, but it seems even that simple notion isn't quite correct :doh: I have 2 pairs of the white covered ones and none of the grey type.
Belkin Silver Series RCA audio, twin shield, grey.
Imo where cables get interesting is when differing materials, diameters and cable shapes get used, hollow tube, multi and solid core mixes, build geometry, etc.
Whether such hybrid cables add something to what should be a neutral component is a matter of debate and test but, for me at least, it is easier to rationalise why such cables may sound different.
My custom interconnects have are simpler version of different diameter twisted conductors pairs in an air gapped dielectric and also have a mylar foil and braided screen. I only have one set of analogue interconnects in my system. This makes “cable tuning” a lot easier and cheaper than in a system where a series of components are joined together.
.
If your speakers have matched drivers an interesting cable test is to use a reference cable in one channel and the test cable in the other and play both tones and music. I find it is easier to pick out differences this way than trying to remember how something sounded while I swap cable about :doh:
There are a couple of things that are worth considering if you’re thinking about these cables.
Reluctance to carve up an expensive set of cables is understandable but at these prices experimentation is cheap and informative ;)
If your speakers are capable of producing tight controlled bass, then initially you may find these cables reduce bass impact but what I lost in impact I gained in tone, depth and detail. I think the overall the sound of these cables is probably nearer to the recording than the others I have used, including my favorite custom cables. The cables’ overall sound is, neutral and detailed without getting sweet and doesn’t tend to exaggerate differences in recording quality or mask the limitations of the rest of the system.
Sat directly between my speakers for example, these cables don’t mask the tendency my system have to throw certain frequencies (notably some cymbals and cow bells) on particular recordings too far behind the sound stage or hide the limitations of my amp in deciding where to present instruments in very complex pieces of music.
Given my amps strengths verge on enthusiastic in the mid range frequencies and my treble drivers tend towards accurate but not particularly extended treble (I can’t hear past 16kHz anyway), the loss of bass impact, for my listening preferences, needed to be addressed :(
I attenuated treble by 1.5 db and added a further attenuation of midrange drivers 1.5db with an L pad using non inductive resistors on the drivers rather than in the crossovers and then adjusted the amps output impedance to match cable/speaker. What works for you will depend on how well you know your system and how it performs in your listening environment.
Conventional wisdom has it the shorter the cable the better; doesn’t seem to work like that in my system where 1m length gave a better sound than a 0.4m. I can’t explain it any better than this; it seems that a shorter cable increased impact but reduced tone and it’s the tone I most enjoy with these :mental:
While I’m destroying my objectivist reputation I want to mention connectors :eyebrows:
Every cable I have measured has a marked difference in electrical characteristics between signal and ground. The only connectors I can think of that have attempted to address this problem are Eichman Bullit RCA connectors with apparently great success. Audiophiles seem to love large pieces of shiny metal and while they may look impressive I’m not convinced they are good for sonic performance.
I built a set of 1m cables (semi balanced) using a set of Nuetrik connectors which have a fairly minimal amount of metal and instead of using the supplied connector shroud/case I wound PTFE tape, first around the individual solder joints, and then around the whole internal body and finally slid a cable support ferule of a suitable diameter over the PTFE packed internals. While a bit fragile and far from pretty I prefer the sound of this cable over the others I made.
You may roll around laughing now if you wish :lol:
Imo good HiFi is about getting the components in the system to work together to produce a sound that is not only as accurate as possible, but more importantly, a sound is enjoyable to listen to. Every change I’ve made to my system seems to require a change elsewhere to maintain that balance and these cables were no exception :doh:
Unfortunately the speaker tweaks put a noticeable hump in bass response and aggravated the low frequency standing wave problem I get in the room.
I recently salvaged a few continental quilts that had been thrown out. My sofa is in direct line and approximately the same width as my speaker placement so I stuffed them into the base and back of the sofa with a layer of acoustic foam glued onto the back frame making a vertical absorption panel of sorts. This seems to have soaked up the worst of the hump (miked at 2.9m, my listening position) while not sucking the dynamics out.
That’s about as audiophile, informative and anal as I get on a forum. You don’t want to know what happens when I change a major component.
I prefer the Belkin cables to the Chord Crimson Plus set I have, the Atlas Equator I borrowed and all but my reference custom set which I’m still trying to decide upon but atm it sounds like the Belkin will stay.
My feeling is both these cables (even in their stock form) will easily outperform any coaxial style cable. Given they are less than £1.50 per foot it gets very hard to see how some cable manufacturers can justify charging £20+ per foot for some very basic configurations and materials :steam:
I look at it like this: you can establish the sound you like and strive through experimentation to get it, or, follow the herd and buy the stuff that others rave about and learn to like that.
I feel I should point out here that in no way do I take this audio business seriously ;)
(Now where did I put that lump hammer, just need to tweak the amp output caps a bit :eek: )
This is simply beyond belief, but although I've ordered two pairs of these cables back in December 20, I still haven't received them. The vendor is not responding to my enquiries, so I'm thinking about pulling the plug on the order.Quote:
Originally Posted by Effem
However, I'm dying to hear these cables, so I was wondering if some of you would be interested in selling yours to me (in case you have some spare, or have moved on to something better)?
hi John,Quote:
Originally Posted by Welder
the cables i disected were the white pure AV series, they had a red and white pair inside with 4 or 5 individualy insulated cores one being a solid core the others being of the sprial or helics [spelling ?] wound type, the screen was made up of a foil and a very sparse brading which was only connected at the source end!
hope this helps.
Anthony,TD...
Hi AnthonyTD
Thanks for the info.
These cables are starting to annoy me. I dissected my white AV set and what I found seems to be slightly different to your description.
For a start my AV quad shielded set are fully balanced (I made an error in my description of the RCA grey set as these are also fully balanced)
The differences between the two sets (AV white, RCA grey) that I have are the extra shielding around the individual conductor pairs. The conductor arrangement is the same, 4 individually transparent coated spiral wires, one spiral pair coated, one larger diameter plain solid coated wire and one uncoated rectangular twisted strip but the braid outer shielding in the AV white set is much sparser than on the RCA grey set which has a very dense tinned copper braided shield. Both sets have the Mylar foil (?) shield.
Anyone want to try to give me a rational explanation as to why what amounts to just extra shielding on one set makes these cables sound different given the shielding on both sets would seem more than adequate to completely reject any RFI?
Just in case anyone else is thinking about messing about with these cables be warned, they are a total pin in the arse to work with :steam:
I totaly agree about them being a pain in the arse to work with.:lol:
i cant recal there being a seperate foil screen on each of the red and white cores but i will recheck that and confirm, also inside each of the spiral wound cores is a strand of what looks to be some form of plastic or nylon, which is around the thickness of a human hair!
Anthony,TD...
I don't fcuking believe this! The cables finally arrived yesterday, but they delivered ONLY one pair! Where the hell is the other pair? No one seems to know, no one seems to care. It says clearly on my order that I've paid for two packages. Oh, the humanity!Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
So my question now is: should I even bother trying to listen to one pair only? If yes, should I install the interconnects between the DAC and the pre-amp, or would it be better to place them between the pre-amp and the power amp? Or does it even matter?
Please help, I'm getting very frustrated...
Stuff the new cable between the DAC & pre amp ;) Garbage in - garbage out & all that, i guess it makes some kid of sense to use it on the front end :)
Thanks Mark, makes sense to me as well. I'm just so disappointed to be forced to conduct this half-assed evaluation of these 'truly amazing' cables. Oh well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant
Try it in both places, going back to the original cables. See what, if any, difference there is.
Alex,
I deliberately only added one pair at a time, starting at the source end & working my way through the system. At every stage things got better.
Is this 13 pages all about a £5 pair of interconnects guys? Wow.
I have to say, they do sound pretty good, and they were only that price as they were outdated stock.
I did get a set myself and plugged them in then had to take them back out whilst I moved things around and not listened since as I am in vinyl mode at the moment.
Precisely. You'll never get a 13 pages worth of discussion about a pair of cables that retail for £5000. Why? Because no one gives a shit about those overhyped, overpriced wires.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
Too right it is all about a £5 pair of cables David, that's why the thread title is . . . . . . . "Truly amazed" :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
If they were £100 there would be nowt to shout about :doh:
If they were £250 we would say "Are they worth £250?" :scratch:
If they were £500+ someone would be yelling "Snake oil alert!!!" :stalks:
yes you are exactly right mate, spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Effem
Hmmm, just tried it from the variable Caiman outs straight into the power amp. Couldn't hear any noticeable difference (???)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
After that, tried from the fixed Caiman outs into the pre amp, and after level matching, fancied hearing just a tiny bit better bass. But definitely not blown away.
I must say I'm confused. I was expecting to be blown away by these interconnects. In both cases, I had to really strain to try and squeeze some differences, but in reality I wasn't hearing them.
I am usually very sensitive to any differences in sound (my friends sometimes even make fun of me for claiming to hear tiny differences between components), and most of the time the changes I make to my configuration are a reason for celebration. No cigar this time:(
I'll have to wait until I get the second pair of these cables before I make my final verdict on them.
Edit: some claim that these cables need 20 hours burn in time. I'll give them the world...
I think you may be missing the point here Alex :)
Interconnects shouldn’t and in my experience don’t give “blow you away” sonic differences.
The point about these interconnects is the performance they give at the price.
Nobody has written that these are the best interconnects you can buy and nobody has written anything about astounding improvements in sound.
How much did you pay for the interconnects you’re replacing with these?
You're suggesting that the title of the thread -- "Truly amazed" relates to the low price, not to the amazing sound quality these cables offer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Welder
That's not the impression I get when I read other people's description. There are many posts in this thread that extoll the sonic virtues of these interconnects. Barely anyone discusses the low price.
I don't know how much I paid for my old interconnects, as the dealer threw them in with the purchase of my separates.
From the man himself: ;)
“Too right it is all about a £5 pair of cables David, that's why the thread title is . . . . . . . "Truly amazed"
If they were £100 there would be nowt to shout about
If they were £250 we would say "Are they worth £250?"
If they were £500+ someone would be yelling "Snake oil alert!!!" ”
I can see you’re going to have problems with anything that isn’t “the best” and any mention of “value” is likely to prejudice your listening.
Perhaps you ought to re read the comments because what I understand from them and from my own experiences is you could pay a lot of money for something esoteric and expensive and not get the same performance……......
Oh never mind…………God help us when you get a serious upgrade or mod :doh:
I started this thread on the basis they were cheap AND sounded very good on two systems I have here, one solid state and the other valve.Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
I bought a single set out of curiosity based upon my findings with the Belkin PF30 and the results I obtained from that pair induced me to buy a second set without any hesitation and the two sets together in the chain yielded far better results than even I had anticipated.
Being the former owner of Krystal Kables I have had more cables through my hands than I could care to remember, some of which had some lofty price tags too I might add, so it completely took my breath away that these poverty budget wires could produce an almost ruler flat frequency scale that emphasised no element of the sound spectrum, inasmuch as they didn't have any bass or treble uplift or attenuation at all, or having a recessed midband as the overwhelming majority of cables tend to exhibit. At the same time giving increased top end detail and bottom end welly, which sounds like contradicting the previous sentence, but that is where the english language has it's own set of inadequacies.
True. And it is really amazing that such cheap cables manage to fit so nicely in a well balanced high end audio system. Like, if I had a very pricey pair of interconnects, and if after replacing them by these cheapo babies I couldn't detect any degradation in sound quality, I'd waste no time waiting to sell the pricey ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Effem
It is actually a good thing that I wasn't able to hear any difference once I replaced my old interconnects with these. But I was hoping (naively, as it seems), that I'd be getting some improvements. There's no free lunch, sadly.
Two things remain to be seen, though:
1. The burn in for the Belkin RCA (I'm now sitting at approximately 10 hours, waiting to make the 20 hour mark)
2. I'm still waiting on the other pair to arrive (the one needed for connecting my pre amp to the power amp)
Once these 2 things happen (and after a proper burn in for the second pair), I'll be in the position to give a more level-headed feedback.
Another thing I forgot to mention is the directionality of these cables. I see that on one end they have an arrow pointing away from the plug, while on the other end they have an arrow pointing towards the plug. I'm assuming that I should plug the away pointing arrow into the analog out (from the Caiman), and the toward pointing arrow into the analog in (into the pre amp). Correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by Effem
Does the directionality affect the sound quality? If I were to plug it incorrectly, would it sound worse?
And btw, what's the theory behind directionality? How does it work?
I've tried to take a snapshot last night, but I have such a snake nest mess of coiled cables that it didn't turn out that well. Here it is, anyways:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7438755/Belk...erconnects.jpg
some cables are direction marked some are not, perhaps this is the way they may have been pre burnt in or the maker intended them to be run that way, just try swapping them around and see if YOU hear any difference, then YOU will find YOUR answer.
Directionality of cables is the biggest non-event ever.
The reason is perfectly simple; music is an alternating current so electrons pass BACK AND FORTH along the cable, hence it changes "direction" many thousands of times per second :eyebrows:
It was theorised way back in the 80's that a reviewer could allegedly hear a difference between the cable being plugged in one way or the other and never had any basis in fact, despite claims of the way the metal is drawn through the die during manufacture having an effect, or there was some mysterious "diode effect" going on within the wire.
I have all my cables going every which way in my system and couldn't give a toss about "directionality" ;)
It looks to me from your pic Alex that you have the Dual RCA audio cables rather than the AV cables.
If this is right they are fully balanced and it doesn't matter which way round the arrows go.
If on the other hand you do have the White AV cables then apprently according to AnthonyTD these are semi balanced (shield not connected at one end)
Ideally with semi balanced cables the end where the shield is attatched to the plug should go to source. If you read the other posts on these cables properly its been explained.
+1 , assuming they are symmetric.Quote:
Originally Posted by Effem
Directionality might only matter with 'directional' cables, that is cables that have an asymmetric construction. An example would be the so-called semi-balanced cable, where the screening is connected to the outer conductor of the RCA connector at one end only. Ideally, this should be at the point of lowest electrical potential (usually the source, but not always).
Regards
Hi Frank,
Fairy muffs... I can't dispute what you're saying, but I'm afraid that it's completely contrary to my own experience. With almost every cable I've owned, when connected to equipment, there has always been one way that has sounded significantly better than the other, my current Mark Grants included.Quote:
Directionality of cables is the biggest non-event ever.
The reason is perfectly simple; music is an alternating current so electrons pass BACK AND FORTH along the cable, hence it changes "direction" many thousands of times per second :eyebrows:
It was theorised way back in the 80's that a reviewer could allegedly hear a difference between the cable being plugged in one way or the other and never had any basis in fact, despite claims of the way the metal is drawn through the die during manufacture having an effect, or there was some mysterious "diode effect" going on within the wire.
I have all my cables going every which way in my system and couldn't give a toss about "directionality" ;)
Don't ask me why, but I can clearly hear the difference - and I'm not someone who's prone to imagining things... :)
Marco.
Some years ago I bought some Kimber PBJ cable off the reel from the other side of the Atlantic. RA always puts direction markers on the same cable, which is sensible to ensure that each piece is used the same way, but these had nothing so I asked Kimber about directionality. Back came the straightforward reply that the cable is not directional as such, but "becomes" directional after about 2 weeks of use, and if turned around, will take another 2 weeks to become directional in the other direction. So direction does matter, but not for long. I hope that makes sense.
It could also make sense that pulling the plugs out and reconnecting them removes tarnish and creates a clean contact ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
I am still having trouble qualifying Kimber's statement that it takes two weeks to "become directional" because how do they test that hypothesis? The second they yank the plug out, the build-up of directionality suddenly vanishes :scratch:
Sure, pulling plugs out does have an effect; also dressing cables in a different way around the rack, but in the latter case I'm buggered if I can explain why that can have such a profound effect on listening satisfaction.
Kimber's point is probably the same phenomenon as new solder joints taking a while to sound "right", which is something that I have most definitely noticed for myself. Surely you have too, Frank? That aside, I don't particularly care about the issue, but was happy that as long as I used the Kimber cables the same way round, they'd be delivering the best performance, thus allowing me to forget about cables, directionality etc.
Maybe you have misunderstood what I meant by Kimber's remarks. They are not suggesting that the directional effect, built up over two weeks of use, evaporates as soon as the cables are disconnected; and it is somewhat mischievous to imply that. They said that the directional effect is permanent until the cables are used in reverse, in which case the cables will settle down and become directional, the other way round, as it were. As for Kimber's "hypothesis", I do like to think that they know a thing or two about metallurgy, cable construction etc. Maybe they listen to their products too!Quote:
I am still having trouble qualifying Kimber's statement that it takes two weeks to "become directional" because how do they test that hypothesis? The second they yank the plug out, the build-up of directionality suddenly vanishes
I think we need to be a bit careful here when talking about directionality of cables.
Some most definitely are and measurably so. Not all cables are built with the same wire and screen configuration.
Plain wire interconnects DNM Reson for example.
Two equally spaced conductors, one signal wire and one ground wire both connected at plug. Directionality shouldn’t be an issue with this type.
Coax style cables.
These have a centre conductor for signal and often use the shield for ground. Signal and ground (Shield) connected at both ends.
A lot is going to depend on how the RCA sockets are connected at each end and the connected components ability to filter out noise. But, I would be surprised if directionality was an issue.
My feeling with this type of cable is due to the ground/screen conductor having a much larger surface area than the signal conductor wire any RF noise the cable picks up, (that’s what the screen is for, it stops RF reaching the signal/centre conductor) may be introduced into the system; probably not an issue for balanced input/output components if balanced input has a transformer.
Separate signal conductors (one signal hot and one ground cold) plus screen.
These tend to come in three configurations.
Unbalanced.
Signal and ground conductors connected at both ends, screen not connected to plugs at either end.
I can’t see why these should be directional.
Semi Balanced.
Signal and ground conductors connected at both ends and screen connected at one end only.
These most definitely are directional. Whether the directionality is audible is another matter.
Any noise the screen picks up is grounded at one end of the cable. It is generally accepted that it is preferable to return any noise the screen picks up to source and ground it there, rather than sending it on to the receiving component and ground it there.
Once again a lot is going to depend on the input and output configuration of the relevant components.
Fully balanced.
These have signal and ground and shield connected to the plug at both ends; the shield is connected to the ground at both ends. This is the Pro audio favorite.
Its quite interesting to have a look inside the component enclosures and see how the ground is connected. Very few domestic Hi Fi components I’ve seen are fully balanced and even fewer are balanced and even fewer have a transformer (no physical connection from one side to the other) balancing stage.
One method of grounding shield I’ve used is to run the shield to ground using a long lead to my power condition box earth. In theory all noise picked up by the shield doesn’t enter the signal path in any of the components but you really need to do this with every shielded cable and equipment chassis earth. If its not done right you may get ground loop hum.
There is no doubt in my mind that things like burn in do occur with any new cable. Even more surprising is if you leave a cable in a drawer unconnected for any length of time, you have to start the burn in process all over again. I have a mains lead here that sounds dreadful for the first few minutes of being connected up after not being used and gradually improves over a few hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
I knew my comments would be misconstrued as I was typing them :) It's the nature of that AC signal current flow back and forth through the cable that still leaves a big nagging doubt in my mind about directionality properties.Quote:
Maybe you have misunderstood what I meant by Kimber's remarks. They are not suggesting that the directional effect, built up over two weeks of use, evaporates as soon as the cables are disconnected; and it is somewhat mischievous to imply that. They said that the directional effect is permanent until the cables are used in reverse, in which case the cables will settle down and become directional, the other way round, as it were. As for Kimber's "hypothesis", I do like to think that they know a thing or two about metallurgy, cable construction etc. Maybe they listen to their products too!
Now if we were talking about a DC current flow from one component to another then I wouldn't be quite as sceptical about the directionality issue. Part of that problem too is I have not heard the "directionality effect" despite the large number of dealings I have had within the cable business, that others say they have heard and perhaps if I did, my stance would of course be rather different.
Well I'll be damned! Last night, sat down for a listen, and hey! -- I thought that everything sounded even better than usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Effem
Could it be that the Belkin had finally burned in? I haven't made any other changes since I've installed the Belkin interconnects. I honestly thought I was hearing MORE (and this sorta coincides with hitting the 20 hour burn in milestone for this cable).
Now I can't wait to get my hands on another pair of these (still sitting somewhere in the USPS purgatory), to connect them from the pre amp into the power amp.
It could be that you put your expectations away for a moment :) My best tip with any hi-fi purchase is to unpack it, plug it in to make sure it works OK then switch off and leave it alone, then actually listen to it a good few hours later - next day is even better if you have the patience. I have to go through this process tomorrow in fact when hopefully my new toy arrives :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
All that excitement of the doorbell ringing, grabbing the box from the courier, signing the docket, then ripping all the packaging open and shoving it into the rack, all plays havoc with your adrenaline and stress levels, so you can easily make incorrect snap judgements about new components. This is the very same reason why blind ABX tests are doomed to fail once the word "test" is mentioned and/or having a strange environment to cope with as well stuffs it right from the outset.
Somewhere in Russ Andrew's documentation, he said the same thing. It may have been one of his useful system guides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
If you don't believe in cable directionality, try reversing just one channel. :eek:
Just as an aside to all this technical banter, if anyone is interested in finding out what the fuss is all about, there may be an opportunity for you to get some of the cables that started all of this off here:
http://www.bigoffers.co.uk
......as far as I can understand, the one in the original post are double shielded, all copper with silver solder:
4.9 metre pair for a fiver:
http://www.bigoffers.co.uk/product.p...s+(AV50300QP08)...
2.4m pair for three quid:
http://www.bigoffers.co.uk/product.p...udio+Cable+RCA...
There are also these:
http://www.bigoffers.co.uk/product.p...s+(AV50300QP08)...
And these:
http://www.bigoffers.co.uk/product.p...udio+Cable+RCA...
For all the above, it's £4.99 maximum p+p charge for whatever you buy from the site - up to a pallet load!!!!
Curses, you pesky lumberjack, I'd have been alright if it wasn't for you and your tempting links... pair of each duly ordered, (plus a "tadpole" mobile phone thingy which I couldn't resist for a quid - passed on the Ear Pick Earwax Remover though - yeuch! - some others might find it useful though - could be the next big upgrade!) Theres some great Belkin computer cables on there too, firewire etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Looks like Dave DSJR was right after all, in that he knew I'd cave in, but I did pretty well at holding out for nearly 2 months I think!