Just curious as to how much this new PSU would influence the output of the headphone stage?
The K701s need more current!
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Just curious as to how much this new PSU would influence the output of the headphone stage?
The K701s need more current!
Yep, I compared both on a Fluke multimeter. The results are a few posts ago but the gist is that my Caiman transformer outputs 3.5V more than my standard 7520 transformer. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
The next bit is a general word of caution for everyone:
I would have thought that by now with all the info that's been stated in various Beresford DAC threads that everyone would have realised that Stan doesn't just pick any old transformer that's the voltage he wants from a catalogue. He's spent considerable time trying many different transformers to make sure the ones he offers match his products as well as possible within his chosen price point. Stan has mentioned on several occasions that the power supply circuitry inside the standard 7520 and the Caiman is different to that used in most products. He calls the design a "dual supply" because the external transformer and the internal power supply circuit work together in harmony. This means that the external transformer needs to be carefully chosen to match. Stan also mentioned that the transformers he uses are switched mode designs of a particular design that can handle the large reservoir cap in the internal supply. He also mentioned that most other transformers, particularly linear designs don't cope well in this situation and therefore make the DAC under perform. This is why he recommended against using 3rd party models like the Maplin transformer some people tried out.
As Stan has spent so much time and effort choosing the Caiman transformer, I would imagine he has made sure that it's regulation is good enough to make sure that the 16V reservoir cap is run suitably below it's rated voltage. Other off the shelf transformers may not be so accurate and could cause damage.
We need to remember that the sort of time, effort and care that Stan puts into designing his products and in choosing components is usually only found in products costing many thousands of pounds. I doubt many people would ever think about swapping the transformer supplied with a £3000 DAC for a £20 maplin job. :mental: So I think that unless you are very rich or supper good at electronics, or both, then you should only try performing mods that Stan recommends as being worth trying. :)
Yes it would appear to be madness supplying 15.5v to a cap rated at 16v. My current bench type linear supply is set at 13.8v (and I have measured it to check) and I use that with my Caiman and it sounds great (just not a fan of switchmode supplies I am afraid).
I have been checking out Avondale's regulators (TPR's) for a possible self build project as well and Les thinks he can tweak one for me to give 13.8v and around 4a peak. The cost will be significantly higher than Stan's special switchmode though and may not be as good!
I always test out my own supplies on a worthless well bodged TC7510 before plugging it into the Caiman as well just to double check.
Regards
Back to the plot.
My power supplied arrived yesterday. Should have been a lot sooner...all my fault for not changing an old e-mail address I had originally in my AOS details. Thanks for sorting me out Stan.
Anyway...all I can say is that the improvements I heard straight from cold were not subtle.
More of everything..but especially clarity, instrument seperation, wider soundstage, bass detail etc.
In fact good thing I was listening to accoustic stuff initially, because when I put on Fun Lovin' criminals, it was though I'd plugged in a sub-woofer. But in a good way !
that was with an airport express. Then I tried out my Linn Ikemi fed through a co-ax into the Caiman.
Bloody hell.
Now I've had this set up since I got the Caiman, and initially the Caiman was more detailed than the built in dac of the ikemi, but a tad harsh. This has settled down with time.
However with the new power supply into the Caiman its elevated the ikemi yet again. Just spent several hours this morning going through CD's ...just to hear the improvements. I don't know how this new set up compares with Linn's latest offering, but have a feeling I've just saved myself at least a couple of grand. At some point I will get round to taking this and comparing it to a Majik, or even an Akurate. That will be interesting.
I've been running mine for close to a week now and listening to it today I could swear its improved... :scratch: :confused:
Its because you took a sock off.
Call me mad (or Stupid?) but my Dacs running more than fine with the Maplin Switched mode PSU set to 15v.
Its the one that can be set to run at 12, 13.5 and 15V).
The Dacs not even warming up at all when compared to running it at 12v.
Doesn't have the same "in your faceness" that runing the 7510 had, but with the better Dac it has more body, more "bounce" to the sound, without losing any of the clarity, subtlety etc it had running it at 12v.
Also, I'm using a proper Foo mains lead with it, which may or may not make a difference too.
I WILL however pick up a Caiman PSU from Stan when funds allow, but I'm just sayin' I dont thnk my Dac will explode any time soon. (If it does its my fault Stan!)
Also note I'm making no comment on comparative sound quality, from comments so far Stans new PSU is a good 'un, as you would expect from all the work and £££ he's put into it.
Just an interesting observation I guess?
Gaz,
I'll be interested in your thoughts on the differences once you've had a chance to A/B the Maplin and Caiman power supply.
My Caiman power supply arrived today, but I'll wait for it to break in before making any declarations...
But in the meantime, I will:gig:
Heres a few impressions of the Caiman psu after some run in , For the lineout and variable out I've been using LM4562HA with MLC5/6 empty, NE5532P in the HA socket
Line out and variable out
First thing I noticed is bass notes are tighter with more kick to them, I can hear layers now to vocals and added weight in the upper mids, this was the only thing I used to find slightly lacking before with this dac so this was nice ,the sound as a whole is more tighter and solid, its something I appreciated more and more after going through various tracks
The HA has a little more grunt than before, I've not tried it with my AKG K701 because their still on loan but this was noticeable with two different pairs of 300R cans.
I think it may be worth going through the op-amps again especially in the HA section, the psu feeds the HA direct so is going to have some influence on performance, you may find some op-amps to be slightly better than they used to be with the original psu, certainly worth looking into;)
Heres a pic of the new Caiman PSU sat next to the original 7520, as can be seen its a little larger physically but still very compact and light, so far I don't hear any HF noises you sometimes hear with a SMPS.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...busoms/181.jpg
With it being smps it gives an instant start up of stiff juice more than capable of keeping the large power supply cap inside the Caiman topped up, a linear of similar current would be much more expensive and physically much larger
So does this PSU provide a worthwhile improvement? IMHO yes, its a no brainer for the price, nice one Stan:smoking:
There should be caps on the output of the switching regulator so they probably burned in more after a little workout:)Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
it's a sad fact of life that the more I strife to develop a better solution at a lower cost, when compared to other companies, the more I get others trying to badmouth me or trying to cut up my market place. You only have to look at the cost of certain DACs in my sector in the market on sale in the UK, and then compare their prices in other markets around the world where I also have a dealer.
Then you have the case of those who have been re-chipping their TC-7520 and adding the Maplin PSU. By the time you add the cost of the upgrades up, they are more than buying a Caiman fully loaded.
Not certain where this is coming from with this Stan. All I have read is how great your designs are and at a great price as well. I thought that you enjoyed others trying tweaks and mods as well - isn't it half the fun?Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
Calm down young man.
Regards
Chris
So, the PSU is up and running.
Cold, after a few minutes of warming, it sounds better than the stock, but I'll need to get my amp back (it's out for the week) in order to give a more precise opinion.
The headphone amp part of the Caiman, in any case, benefits quite significantly from the PSU: there's a clear increase of musical "truthfulness", as if there were even more details coming up.
Thank you Stan for this upgrade. ;)
Uhm,
I only mentioned the Maplin PSU as it was what I was using already and I had read the 7520 could be run (and improved) with the new PSU running at 15.5v.
The Caiman PSU is actually cheaper than the Maplins one: an important distinction. Of course it makes sense to buy that, and I will, but I had a Maplins one ANYWAY, so just thought Id try it.
Turns out it works,go figure.
Except the Caiman wasn't available when they bought the 7520, and want to upgrade without starting from scratch?Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
And as I carefully point out in an earlier post:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UK
Quote:
Any honest appreciation of the Caiman Supply must compare it with the Caiman DAC running with another competent 15v supply. The extra 3v might alone be responsible for the improvement in the Caiman.
It may be an academic point, for Stan's Caiman Supply will probably cost less than a competing supply. I have an adjustable power supply lying around the house - I used it with the 7510 (at 12v), but will not risk trying the Caiman with it.
Gentlemen.
For those of you who use headphones; How much do they benefit the sound?
I've experienced a bit of clipping on the very busy / transient parts of certain music with the K701s. I have a feeling a bit more juice might be 'enough' to fix it.
I've got a 'Caiman' 7520 (WM8716 / 4562NAs / 10uF caps + 36k resistors).
Thanks in advance :]
If you mean how does the new power supply benefit the sound when using headphones my answer is, greatly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZebuTheOxen
The sound is more full bodied without being overblown, and I believe there is more detail to be heard as witnessed by the dying notes of the piano. (Dampers held off while a chord fades.)
I have noticed no clipping, but my Sony F1s are not as hard to drive as your 701s. I would be very surprised if you got anywhere near amplifier clipping - I would exceed the threshold of pain long before that.
That's pretty much what I wanted to hear, thanks!
It's only on very specific parts of music, and the K701s don't handle harmonic distortion very well anyway - which could be the cause.
Sounds like another step forward :]
The TC-7520 needs certain mods done to it in order to work with the Caiman PSU properly. I have agreed with Audio Flair that they can do the mods and include the Caiman PSU. That won't be before end of November though.
I have to say I am utterly pissed off about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
It's an electrical safety issue. Some parts in the TC-7520 are not designed to take the increased voltage and current without overheating and possibly failing.
Hi Jerry
"I have to say I am utterly pissed off about this."
Why???
Nick
Dont know if its relevent here, but my 7520 runs just fine (great actually) at 15v.
Doesn't even warm up.
Maybe the extra 0.5v with the proper Caiman supply makes a difference I dont know.
No doubt Im unaware of a lot of things?
The only factor I can think of as being relevent (in terms of electrical/thermal stress on components) is the ammount of volts hitting the Dac from the PSU.
But hey - what do I know, right? ;)
I should be very careful, Gaz. If Stan says there is a safety issue (and he has said it twice), I would go back to 12v.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Hi Gaz,
I am learning too but my thoughts are:
It may be that although the new PS can supply 15v the Caiman only draw what it needs from it, basically like a reservoir. To work in this way it would need to have some form of internal tracking regulation (I think Stan may have called it a virtual circuit in a past note?).
It may be that this regulation differs in the Caiman and 7520 models and if so it would be best to check with Stan before going for it.
Just my thoughts.
Regards
Chris
I was going to ask if the work would be something that could be done by an individual, but I don't fancy touching power regulation even if it was.
I'll be interested in pricing when it's all ready to go :]
I am meeting Adrian from Audio Flair this evening at the MAD AoS dinner. One of the options we are looking at is to install a couple of other mods at the same time that would raise the TC-7520 above the basic Caiman specification for those who still have their THS4032 or LM4562HA.
I am running one of those extra mods in a Caiman with the THS4032, and so is Leo.
I hope to also try it on the TC-7510 and if the results are worthwhile, I'll off it to Audio Flair to carry out for those interested. If I don't mention the results, then they weren't worthwhile:).
Because we were assured that the only differences between the 7520 and Caiman were the Wolfson chip and the op-amps. Gaz will confirm this.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB
That was my understanding , yes.
(Quite happy to discuss in PM)
Will await the results of this with interest!Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
MAD AOS dinner...as in whacky, zany etc? ;)
10uF???? That's incorrect. Where did you get that information from?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZebuTheOxen
Whatever the standard MCL 5 / 6 caps are.
I've just snipped, lifted the leg and soldered the 36k into series with it.
You need to swap the cap for a 100nF, the original one is 100uF I think:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZebuTheOxen
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...ms/stanmod.jpg
I can't remember Stan ever saying that. :scratch: He said they were the main differences along with the MLC5/6 mods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
If you read this post HERE you will see that Stan states (2 months ago) that he can't remember what other changes were made off the top of his head. So from that you can assume that other changes were made.
I'm sure I can also remember Stan saying that performing those main mods would bring the 7520 "close" to the performance of the Caiman. I'm sure "close" was the word he used. :)
Well,
I didnt want to highlight this aspect of the Dac in an open forum, or indeed my thoughts/info on it, but you feel free..
Not everythings publicly announced you know.
Anyways....moving on?
Gaz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy
The standard caps fitted in the 7520 MLC5 and MLC6 positions are 100 pico farad ceramics (going by memory)
For Stans mod it needs to be 100 nano farads or 100,000 pico farads (0.1uf) to go in series with a 36k resistor, 10 micro farads (10uf) is way too large
Ceramic and film caps are usually marked, 101 is 100pf and 104 is 100nf
I edited post in sticky collection of mods in the diy room, just added a bit of text .
Ok , back to Caiman psu :)
Leo could you just confirm what this latest mod does?
I'm putting my money on power regulation, probably using Murata regs. :eyebrows: At least I hope that's what it is as I've been interested in trying this for a while.
Which mod?Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
I am meeting Adrian from Audio Flair this evening at the MAD AoS dinner. One of the options we are looking at is to install a couple of other mods at the same time that would raise the TC-7520 above the basic Caiman specification for those who still have their THS4032 or LM4562HA.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
I am running one of those extra mods in a Caiman with the THS4032, and so is Leo.
I hope to also try it on the TC-7510 and if the results are worthwhile, I'll off it to Audio Flair to carry out for those interested. If I don't mention the results, then they weren't worthwhile.
:scratch:
I may be getting my wires crossed here (Ha). Post 137 shows a mod which you have added some text to. What was this mod for? I thought it was something to do with the new Caiman power supply as it followed on from that discussion.
Then there is the details listed above (post 142) about a revision to the 7520. If you can give any details great but if its a state secret we will sit on ours hands patiently.
With the question being underneath my post about Stans 100nf+36k mod I thought he may have been asking about how that works.
I'd rather info came from Stan first tbh mate regarding anything not yet posted
This is one reason I'd rather latest stuff came from Stan first, it is very easy to get wires crossedQuote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
Stan noticed this post which was in this actual thread http://theartofsound.net/forum/showp...&postcount=132
Can you remember the 36k+100nf mod or bass mod as some people called it?
I just added a bit of text about this mod in the diy section to try and make it more clear about the value of cap which needs to be used, this mod is nothing to do with the Caiman psu ;)
Mods? I just plug it in and listen!
Hope the mods work out -would be a good boost to us non Caiman owners who cant run the new PSU?Quote:
Originally Posted by chrism
Gone and done it - adjusted my Maplins linear bench supply from 13.8v to 14.4v and plugged it into my Caiman.
Bit early to tell if any difference yet but the bass sounds a little more tuneful than I remember. The supply is set at around 3amps as well so well over the top.
If it goes bang I only have myself to blame!
Regards
Well it has not gone bang and I like the differences that I can detect (subtle though). The top end sounds smoother not that I detected any particular issues before and the percussion instruments sound a little weightier (drum bashes etc).
Very deep bass is more controlled and my speakers more able to deal with it without vibration!
It's definately a thumbs up from me unless Stan says don't be stupid!
Regards
Chris
I'd still try Stans PSU Chris, I know I am (eventually), and I'm runing the Maplin supply at 15V to better effect.
(no s'plosions as of yet!)
The usual money back guarantee applies so if its not any better - send it back!