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Indeed, dude. I'm reading it now! ;)
Some of the vintage B&O kit was actually very good. It wasn't like the shite they make now for corpulent 'key-jangler' types with a penchant for slurping Cristal and taking package holidays in Tenerife :rolleyes:
Marco.
Agreed! I have a B&O 1700 tuner, bought purely for it's looks. Not only does it look gorgeous but it sounds very good as well; somewhere between a Leak Troughline and a Quad FM3, so no slouch!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
:steam: :mental: :upyours:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Adam (who has never tried Cristal and never been to Tenerife but has more than a few choice items of modern B&O!)
Ha - I knew there'd be some daftee here who bought the current stuff! :lolsign:
Marco.
P.S Well seen you know how to spell 'Cristal' (now amended accordingly)! :ner: :lol:
Old B&O was genuinely good and I fondly remember the Beolab 5000 integrated amp (as suggested in the pic) as happily driving some Linn Sara's to a very high standard. Continental gear had to drive a compulsory 4 Ohm load back then (DIN standard?) so the power supplies had to be up to it. Tuners designed there also had to be sensitive and selective too and B&O and Tandberg (I'm sure there are other greats too) seemed to do a wonderful job that the old UK tuners couldn't get anywhere near.
Actually Marco, a fettled 'Lab 5000 would be an excellent match to the Ditton 66's in one of your many available rooms should your proposed move take place...:) A fully serviced 'Gram 3000 with SP12 pickup (or an extremely rare Beogram 3000 with TD124!) would set it off nicely.
[EDIT] I understand I was in error with the above comments. The Goodmans were of course the MAXIMS from the late 60's, the Minimax's being the Hungarian babies from a few years later.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
I also understand from Richard Dunn that Ira Gale himself designed the 401 speakers, so apologies to all for the mis-information :doh:
Those B&O's are Beolab '5000' Amplifier & Beomaster '5000' TunerQuote:
Originally Posted by Barry
Them's the ones and there's a Dutch? site dedicated to restoring them :)
Don't they look just gorgeous? :stalks: And, from what I remember, didn't sound too bad either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
They are nice, my fav B&O's
noticed this thread a few days ago and after marco's description of the cart,i thought i would give it a try as im looking for a new cart and this could possibly fit the bill and for a cheap price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I have obtained a G800 cart,cost £11,but cannot find any nos styli,and the one that came with it must be worn as the HF sound really bad and can take the fillings out your teeth.
Anyone know where i can obtain a nos or should i just get the modern replacement?
Hi Darren,
I'd just go for one of these, until a NOS stylus pops up: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stylus-Goldrin...item45f9fd3918
What headshell are you using with the G800 - just the stock Jelco one? If so, you'll need to add some more mass :)
Marco.
SP25 with G800 in my loft. In fact there may be several SP25'sQuote:
Originally Posted by shane
The matching amp, Beolab 1700 is very nice too, not a powerhouse, but great sounding. I read a review of that today. I won't say where!Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
I remember the 'lab 1700 fondly too, as well as the tuner. These may well take a temporary hike in price now we've mentioned them, so look out for the receiver (I forget which one but it's black fronted in identical styling) as it will be ignored. Use the tape output for the tuner and obviously the amp inputs are there with easy 4 Ohm load driving ability. low power is it's only downfall today, plus suspect capacitors. the output stage was easily blown as well I remember.
I have two Beolab 1700's, In this room (which is not small) it still drives LS3/5a fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
The output capacitors of one amp are bulging, in the process of replacing them.
The other 1700, at some stage has had two output devices replaced in the past. I believe that they are power Darlington's.
They are :) We did loads, usually in the music centre which used much the same amp, but I forget the numbers now.
Me too, but inside each Beomaster 1700 and Beolab 1700 is a small envelope, with a circuit diagram in it. A nice touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Nice one, Marco. That was my very first cartridge, running on a Connoisseur BD-1 with SME3009-II. It did me well but then I stupidly swapped it for a Shure M55E, which I thought was not as musical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Should have bought the Super-E stylus ;)
From memory, the G800 was pretty reasonable, led me to purchase the Goldring Epic cartridge, did not like this one.
Hi marco,Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
ok i'll get a modern replacement till a nos shows up.
I've got the at ls-12 which I got from you,but I think it's the same weight as the jelco.I'm sure I have a headshell weight/spacer with an old technics headshell.I'm not sure how heavy it is,probaly between 2g-4g I suspect.
Hi Darren,
Don't use those, as they're ferrous, and so not ideal for this particular job. My advice would be to buy this stainless steel headshell weight, from VPI:
http://www.analogueseduction.net/pro...eight_VPI-SSHW
It's what I use with my G800, and it the holes should align nicely with those under your LS-12. That (along with a new stylus) will make your G800 sing! :)
Marco.
P.S Also, remember to track the G800 at around 2.5g (with a conical stylus), or even a bit more if it sounds better for it - you'll still be well within the recommended range.
Right i see the technics weight does look a bit 'flimsy' really,i assume ferrous means more resonant?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Martin t had suggested a denon DL-110 to try but i have just spent £1k on a snowboard course in austria(which i passed btw :yay:) so am a little skint atm,so will have to wait awhile for that.
Have you heard a DL-110? and if so,how does it compare to the G800 when set up optimaly?
"Ferrous means magnetic" I suspect Marco meant. The G800 and 820 were "induced magnet" types, which meant that instead of there being a small magnet behind the stylus waggling around, there was some easily magnetised material instead. A permanent magnet was positioned above the stylus assembly to magnetise this material. ADC used similar techniques in their classic 1960's and 1970's series of cartridges, the magnets being fixed in the body in the 26 and relatives, but actually in the stylus assembly in the QLM/VLM/XLM and ZLM models.
G800E test from Gramophone - note the 5db treble suckout...
http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page...7/#header-logo
gotcha,you can allways count on dave to fill the gaps in one's lack of knowledge :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Not sure what 5db treble suckout means in practical terms though.Still new to all this really.
It was easy when i used to dj,buy a couple of concord carts,install,then bang 'choons' out till new carts were needed.
A treble suckout usually means a big, beefy sound with a "gentle" reproduction of cymbals etc. I found. I'm still waiting for my freebies so I can't verify these feelings in today's sensibilities.
Just spotted this thread by accident. I have read most of the posts and have to agree with you Marco on the G800's qualities.
I recently re-tipped one for a customer as a bit on an experiment. New tip was a standard spherical, Tested on my Garrard 301/sme 3009 imp fixed headshell
and was duley gobsmacked at the results. I use a Supex 900super in Audiomods arm daily, but I may well get a G800 now. No suckout whatsoever, and firm bass with midrange to die for. Plenty of subtlety and expression, no sibilance which was not expected. All in all extremely satisfying.
Some pics of the one I worked on
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...m/DSC01638.jpg
New tip under microscope
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...m/DSC01636.jpg
Finished G800
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...m/DSC01635.jpg
Dom
Hi dom,welcom to the forum :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Harper
I've been looking for a nos stylus for one of these carts but to no avail as of yet,but after reading your post i was wondering if you could give some info on retipping a modern G800 stylus,would it be worth it? how much?
If it's not worth it i'll just get a modern one and see how that goes.Just have to wait on a auction on ebay for some records i have been after for years and don't want to miss out on them so all funds will concentrate on that.
Hi Darren, I have been on this forum for some time, but don't post as often as I should!
I have not listened to the ne styli so can't comment on those. They are available for around £15 and my re-tip will cost £60 to the existing cantivever if still usable. At least this will keep the original spec as the new replacements will no doubt alter the characteristics.
The original suspension should be fine, so no worries there.
My email is northwestanalogue@hotmail.co.uk
if you need to get in touch.
Dom
cheers dom,i see that you took the cart apart in the pics did you do any other work on it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Harper
Hi, not on the cart that was tipped. I had 3 G800's to play around with. One was dead on one channel( cart in bits) and two with diamonds missing.
The one in bits will be used for experiments as I wish to re-wind the coils and create a low output version along the lines of the Grado statements.
I see,right im off to listen to some 12's at loud volume and yes on a sunday :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Harper
Hi Dom,
Nice one - I'm glad you like it. In the right (high-mass) tonearm, and with a quality (open and detailed sounding phonostage, not the syrupy, euphonic kind), the G800 is laughably good, particularly with a NOS stylus.Quote:
New tip was a standard spherical, Tested on my Garrard 301/sme 3009 imp fixed headshell
and was duley gobsmacked at the results. I use a Supex 900super in Audiomods arm daily, but I may well get a G800 now. No suckout whatsoever, and firm bass with midrange to die for. Plenty of subtlety and expression, no sibilance which was not expected. All in all extremely satisfying.
I picked up an early, totally mint NOS one on eBay last month, but haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. I will do though, later this week, and will report here :cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco, compliance figures can be very missleading. I found the Goldring to work perfectly well in the SME, actually prefering it to the Supex I currently use in an Audiomods arm. I have another G800 body and damaged stylus here I will re-tip for myself and install in the Audiomods. I will also report back when listening tests start.
Funnily enough I had a G800 many years ago mounted in a Hadcock unipivot. Phono stage was medeocre at the time, so this combination didn't inspire me.
This cart def needs a top phono stage for best results.
Dom
I have a g800 body but the cantiliver was snapped clean off when i got it.
Any advice on a cheapo replacement stylus.
Back in the very early 70's I was working for G.W Smith & Co who was one of the constituent parts of what became the Audiotronic group that traded as Laskys. I remember every Saturday at 257 Tottenham Court road we would sell about 100 TT packages that consisted of a Garrards SP25 in a Alan Sugar plinth and cover with a Goldring G800. AND every Monday morning there would be at least 10 of them back having shed their stylus as soon as they were asked to play a record, so I was very jaundiced towards them. I preferred the Shures, but on much later listening realised they were probably musically better than the Shures. Apart from the M3D which has a unique boogy character that is quite addictive. Interestingly when they tried to go up market with the G800 super E to try and compete with the likes of the Shure V15 (everyone aspired to SME / Shure V15) it didn't really work, the low compliance with a high mass body made the thing warbly and unstable.
Richard
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REPLACEMENT-GO...item45faf9aec0Quote:
Originally Posted by chelsea
Can someone help me out,before i buy a replacement stylus i just want to check i have set everything up correctly.
Symptoms im having is extremly sibilant treble which stands out like a sore thumb.
Im using the baerwald alignment,2.5 tracking,use a bubble spirit to check azimuth which is spot on.
Have i missed anything? Looking at the stylus tip by eye it looks ok but im not sure.Is sibalance a sign of a worn or damaged needle?
Hi Dom,
That's interesting and noted, although it's different from my own experience. I use mine on a Jelco SA-750, which with its original headshell, has an effective mass of around 16g.
I'm not a big fan of the stock headshell, considering it as somewhat flimsy and not in keeping with the superb engineering of the rest of the tonearm, and so have fitted a NOS Audio Technica LT-12 (12g mass, similar to the Jelco headshell), although it's made from solid magnesium - one of the best materials from which to make a headshell, IMO.
The (spherical-tipped) G800 worked very well in the LT-12, but then I thought I'd try adding a little more mass, by fitting a 3g VPI headshell weight: http://www.analogueseduction.net/pro...eight_VPI-SSHW, and after doing so, the sound improved markedly, adding more weight and authority and removing a slight tendency to sibilance, with some recordings.
Therefore based on that experiment, it would *seem* that the G800 likes some added mass. However, that was with it fitted on my Jelco. I suspect that your SME would 'grip' it better, given the excellent damping qualities of the SME's all-magnesium arm-tube (it's a V you've got, yeah?), which may explain why it works fine on that, without any further added mass.
Anyway, if that's the case, it will mean that the G800 is more accessible to people with 'normal' tonearms, which is good news :)
I suspect that the Hadcock you used to use with it, would've been a less than ideal match, even taking into consideration the poor quality phono stage you had at the time.
One area where massive advances have been made since the days of the G800, are in terms of the quality of phono stages and preamps which are available now, and so for that reason, I doubt that anyone who used a G800 first time round would've heard its true qualities.
I love quality vintage gear, but I've yet to hear a vintage preamp or phono stage that gets near to even some of the better budget ones these days! They were generally way too noisy and/or over-complicated.
My view is that good vintage cartridges had superb quality generators (far better than most of what is produced today), and so with a sympathetic stylus re-tip, or the use of mint NOS examples, fitted to a quality tonearm, and through a quality modern preamp and phono stage, the results can be a real ear-opener, producing a level of musicality which makes most of today's cartridges sound rather 'frigid and forensic', and distinctly 'hi-fi', in comparison.
Anyway, hopefully your revelations will create some more G800 fans on here! :cool:
Marco.
cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by kininigin
A worn stylus and or azimuth issues will cause sibilance. It is very tricky to inspect a stylus for azimuth without a microscope. There are alot of old and new styli incorrectly aligned, and even if you check arm azimuth, this is no indication stylus is correct.
While we are going on about old things, I would be fascinated by anyone trying a Sonotone 9tahc. It is ceramic so you will have to keep the volume down as it has loads of output, far more than a moving magnet.
Now these were largely only fitted to radiograms and record players and the Garrard 1025tc autochanger, but I remember them having zonking dynamics if a little limited in HF and not exactly flat across the frequency band, some would say full of character.
Richard
I'm not surprised, Richard, as that's precisely what happened to one of the NOS ones I bought!Quote:
Back in the very early 70's I was working for G.W Smith & Co who was one of the constituent parts of what became the Audiotronic group that traded as Laskys. I remember every Saturday at 257 Tottenham Court road we would sell about 100 TT packages that consisted of a Garrards SP25 in a Alan Sugar plinth and cover with a Goldring G800. AND every Monday morning there would be at least 10 of them back having shed their stylus as soon as they were asked to play a record, so I was very jaundiced towards them.
I haven't tried the 'E', but the more I hear about it from those that have, the more I'm almost certain that it wouldn't be my cup of tea.Quote:
Interestingly when they tried to go up market with the G800 super E to try and compete with the likes of the Shure V15 (everyone aspired to SME / Shure V15) it didn't really work, the low compliance with a high mass body made the thing warbly and unstable.
Marco.
I'm amazed people are hankering over the 'G800' & not the 'G900's !
The E was just an eliptical G800, the G800 super E was a different beast. And the G900 was horrible, they lost it at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
This has a copy of a super E review from about 1969 and other interesting things http://www.saturn-sound.com/history/...%20reviews.htm
Im leaning towards a worn stylus rather than incorrect azimuth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Harper
I might sell my nagaoka and send you my G800 for a retip,i'll wait till you do yours though and see what you think of it in your system.
Hi RichardQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bunsen Honeydew
I'm almost 100% certain my Dad had one of these in his radiogram , from about 1970 , did it have a flip over stylus for 78's ?
Darren, I have tried the re-tipped G800 on my Garrard 301/sme combo and was stunned at what I heard. Bear in mind, that was a spherical tip! no sibilance whatsoever, tracking about 2.5g.
Yup! you can still buy stylus for them at ebay. They were just far better beasts than the crystals like Ronette and BSR. They could actually play music in a very characterful wayQuote:
Originally Posted by chris@panteg
Yes and its where my music loving journey started i guess , listening to my Dad's ' Wagner , Beethoven and Tchaikovsky records :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bunsen Honeydew
The Gram had a Bush reciever as i remember it and of course the Garrard autochanger.
I remember playing some Genesis to him ! He listened to all of it and then said to me :hmm: its a bit of an acquired taste :eyebrows: and too repetitive , bless him :)