Absolutely you are, however, until Finn qualifies his relevant experience in the matter, he isn't!Quote:
I think having owned a top spec LP12 ' Voyd ' and even though it was the lower spec Radius 5 ' still a very good Roksan , i feel suitably qualified to make any comparison.
Marco.
Just thought I should clarify.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
a standard Technics is very good in the areas of pitch, timing and bass....all areas I think most agree that DD are good in (my experience here is limited to just the 1200) Where the standard 1200 with a basic MM lacks is in the midrange and treble + the areas of imaging, sound staging, nuance and detail. These are areas that my SME Model 20, Graham Phantom, and MC cart do very well in.
However those areas of lack in a 1200 are down to the arm and cart you might use and not the quality of the motor unit. Removing the internal PSU for an external one + better bearing takes the motor unit even further.
However there is a quality to the standard 1200 music making ability that is highly musical and infectious. Despite the above mentioned limitations, its boogy factor puts it way above most High end TT I have heard to date. In my humble experience the level of musical enjoyment to be had also far out strips the Projects and Regas at that price point too.
My experience to date has been such that I can now hear what AOS members and others have claimed for the Technics 1200/1210. I can hear through the limitations caused by the arm, cart I am using at the present time and because of that I feel strongly that what Marco, Martin T and others have claimed for a full modded Technics is right.
My next steps are change arm (my SME is currently on a TT in for review in the context of my reviewing for AIHFA) but once it is free it will be going on my 1200. Next step bearing, mat and PSU which I will be doing very shortly.
I can't wait to hear what everyone else is hearing and frankly the nay sayers who have no direct experience can go and kid themselves elsewhere.
Regards D S D L
Excellent Neil
As i write this i am listening to Rameau ' solo harpsichord/Fuller ref recordings ' it sounds like he is in the room .
I was having a look on Ebay at used 1210's , such a lottery, perhaps a better bet maybe ask Hifi dealers to look out for a good used 1210 as they sometimes get them , might be a bit of a wait though .
I picked up 15 really nice classical vinyl box sets a few days ago. Covers are a bit tatty but the vinyl is mint. There are some excellent looking recordings in there Christopher Hogwood etc I can't wait to listen to them on the techie.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris@panteg
Regards D S D L
Well done for moving the off-topic stuff to a separate thread, Neil - you saved me a job! :)
Excellent post - I concur completely.
...And in mine, too. I've said it before, the latter are but toys in comparison, certainly in terms of out-and-out solid engineering design, which in my experience is responsible for about 80% (or more) of what a turntable is capable of, sonically.Quote:
However there is a quality to the standard 1200 music making ability that is highly musical and infectious. Despite the above mentioned limitations, its boogy factor puts it way above most High end TT I have heard to date. In my humble experience the level of musical enjoyment to be had also far out strips the Projects and Regas at that price point too.
Quite simply, it is no accident that the most solidly (and cleverly) engineered turntables in the world, are amongst the best sounding.
Let's get real and cut the bull... How can any T/T with a 'two and a half pence motor and PSU', driven by an elastic band, compete sonically with the technologically adroit Quartz locked direct-drive system of the Technics, which is vastly more sonically accurate than entry-level Regas or Pro-jects, and has been in production and used professionally and domestically for over 30 years??
The other thing which must be remembered here is that despite some stock SL-1200s and 1210s costing the same as some Pro-jects and Regas, the former are derived from a much larger development budget, and only priced as they are due to economies of scale (as a result of the sheer size of Matushita Electric/Panasonic and its manufacturing capabilities) and the fact that the development costs of the SL-1200 design are long since paid for.
How much would an SL-1200 or 1210 cost today if designed from the ground up by, say, Linn, SME or Mitchell, who arguably have the engineering facilities and prowess to take on such a project?
£2k, perhaps - or more? Therefore, how can one realistically compare, what is to all intents and purposes, an (approx) £2k T/T with ones that sell for only a few hundred pounds, and probably cost MUCH less than that to produce?? ;)
It’s bloody ridiculous!!
Marco.
No problemooooo :)
Regards D S D L
Marco, please remember that the real ability in design is to work miracles with next to nothing. I do accept that the SL1200 mk2 came along nigh on ten years after the original basic designs were done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
If you chuck loads of dosh at an idea, you can often make it work through brute force, but, in my opinion, current Rega's sound as good as they do because of very clever production engineering where it matters (main bearing and tonearm) and clever use of cheap materials (in the MDF and float-glass platters for example, let alone this new plastic derivative their using in the RP1).
Gotta go...
Hi Dave,
I completely agree. I think entry-level Rega and Pro-ject T/Ts are decent and, as you say, cleverly designed budget turntables - I have no issue with that notion whatsoever.
What I *do* have a MAJOR issue with, however, are those who, through ignorance and/or hidden agendas, insist on lumping the Techie in with them, in terms of sonic performance, due to the fact that SL-1200s/1210s (sometimes) cost the same, depending on the respective models from the manufacturers in question, or because they think that the Techie is inferior because it was designed as a "DJ deck", and then when told differently, stubbornly refuse to 'digest' this fact! :rolleyes:
The SL-1200/1210 never was, and never will be (in real terms) a 'budget' turntable, modified or unmodified, for the reasons others and I've explained, and so therefore should not be compared to entry-level Rega and Pro-ject T/Ts, which are.
<(Another) rant over>
Gosh, I'm enjoying meself today! :lol:
Marco.
WOW
What is this?
Is this a time bobble or is it a community for japanese vintage gear?
People conclude on my knowledge and experience without any premises.
Accusing me for trolling? No way.
I have heard several Technics SL-12xx in modified and overmodified versions.
I was just trying to be helpful to the poor guy asking.
I would have guided him to a better solution for same $$
People on Swedish communities fully agree with me when talking Technics TT.
I guess it was a mistake by me to join in here without researching what this place was about.
I better search for communities dealing with people having more experience and higher level of gear then.
I apologize if I in any way have offended anyone.
I might pop in to read a few comments now and then but I promise I will leave your Technics fantasy alone.
Hi Finn,
No, it's a community of open-minded, largely very experienced, discerning audio and music enthusiasts who don't judge equipment on price or 'badge desirability' ;)Quote:
What is this?
Is this a time bobble or is it a community for japanese vintage gear?
Well I'm afraid that's what happens when you make sweeping statements without qualifying how you arrived at your conclusions.Quote:
People conclude on my knowledge and experience without any premises.
However, perhaps your English isn't good enough to express yourself properly? That I can understand and forgive. Your English is certainly better than my Swedish! :)
Ok then, humour me - please tell us what "overmodified" SL-1200s or 1210s you've heard. This will then at least give your views some credibility. Or do you not expect to be challenged in that respect?Quote:
Accusing me for trolling? No way.
I have heard several Technics SL-12xx in modified and overmodified versions.
A "better solution" for who - YOU or him? Do you know anything about the OP or his tastes in audio equipment/music? And so you "help" him by 'crapping' all over his thread?Quote:
I was just trying to be helpful to the poor guy asking.
I would have guided him to a better solution for same $$
Have you actually read what he's written and what HE thinks??
With respect, I don't give a shit what people on Swedish communities think about Technics T/Ts. Why should that have any bearing on what we think here? You're entitled to your opinion, as they are, but that's it.Quote:
People on Swedish communities fully agree with me when talking Technics TT.
What do you mean exactly by "what this place is about"? I think you're coming to the wrong conclusions rather too quickly, my friend. What's a "higher level of gear", exactly - something with a 'hi-end' badge to show off to your friends?Quote:
I guess it was a mistake by me to join in here without researching what this place was about.
I better search for communities dealing with people having more experience and higher level of gear then.
Have you noticed what type of systems some of us use our modified Technics T/Ts in? They're not exactly 'budget'!
Apology accepted. Perhaps you could start again and be a little bit more open-minded?Quote:
I apologize if I in any way have offended anyone.
That's entirely your decision, but rather rudely dismissing many people's valid, and in some cases long researched equipment choices as "fantasy", I'd suggest is not likely to endear you to many of our members.Quote:
I might pop in to read a few comments now and then but I promise I will leave your Technics fantasy alone.
Marco.
P.S Are you sure you're not 'nicholasthedolphin' (a banned troll from Norway) in disguise? You write like him and have very similar views. Perhaps it's a Scandinavian thing? :scratch: