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The Dual's the same - run with patter off and it "kicks" two or three times per revolution.
The arm, if it's anything like the similar looking Rega R200, is what contributes to the "musicality" I reckon. That, and the solid plinth. You may find that the AT33PTG may just prefer a lighter headshell compared to the heavyweights tried on here - the imagery should be almost holographic with an AT.
Others have said it looks similar to a Rega but then others have said it is not - can't recall where / when...Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
I tried a headshell mass inc of 3g and that was terrible. Put it back quick - ah lovely...
Sumiko and Achromat should arrive tomorrow - mini Christmas all over again:)
No Sumiko headshell yet but the Funk Achromat 5mm mat did arrive.
A mate of mine came around - well into his vinyl and we had a test session.
To cut a long story short we both preferred the original Pioneer mat to the Funk one! Not what I expected at all.
We observed that mats do make quite a big difference to the sound.
Mat swapping is so easy to do compared with most other hifi component or part comparisons.
The Funk one made gave more body to the music. Slightly deeper bass and a slightly darker tonal experience.
Piano notes (take Oscar Peterson's Night train) did not trip off his box (that roxs) in so lively a fashion as the Pioneer mat could deliver.
There is a delicacy & subtlety to the presentation / tone of the notes using the Pioneer mat that could not be matched by the Funk.
Right, comparison of construction.
Funk mat - 5mm thick seemingly hard all the way through, pretty rigid composite material.
Pioneer PL-71 mat. 5mm thick. 3 groups of 4 individually raised rings. Hard rubber / plastic with upper surface with slightly more tactile rubber base.
Still pretty rigid compared to the Technics SL-1210 mat for example.
We tried a thick Rega? felt mat (also 5mm). That just muddied the sound - off with that pronto.
So my mat upgrade did not happen.
However on some pretty tinny recordings - The Who's Tommy or The Door's for example I preferred the slight dampening effect of the Funk mat.
For all else and we listened to stuff from Joni Mitchell to The Band, UFO to Chris Rea, Melody Gardot & of course Mt Peterson we both preferred the PL-71 mat hands down.
As for the deck in total - my mate was very impressed. So much so he said he would be looking out for one instead of upgrading from his nice Project deck / carbon arm to a Roksan something or other!
Hope the Sumiko headshell does better. I bet it is the SPU I fall in love with and have to sell the missus to get one:)
Pics
PL-71 original mat
http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/45...600x600Q85.jpg
Underside
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/45...600x600Q85.jpg
All in the grooves? - hmm this baby needs a good clean!
http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/43...600x600Q85.jpg
Edge
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/24...600x600Q85.jpg
Funk Achromat
http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/42...600x600Q85.jpg
http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/36...600x600Q85.jpg
Edge
http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/36...600x600Q85.jpg
Yep, been there as well...done that and got the T-shirt! :) I found the same with the Lenco, Garrard, SP10, SL120 etc....what I did find though was using a combination of the original mat and another one (as long as you can get the VTA correct) gave a slightly better sound. All good fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy.steve
Guys,
It's possible that Pioneer voiced the PL-71 with their own mat, or at least factored its effect into the equation, which would explain the results you've got. It strikes me that the PL-71 is a very 'sorted' design.
As far as SP10s and SL-1200/1210s go, I believe Guy's copper mat outperforms the stock rubber mat by a significant margin, and the Sound Hi-fi (Herbie's) mat does the same on the 1210 compared to the original mat.
Steve, you might want to try a Herbie's on the PL-71 just to finally make sure that the stock mat is the best. In my experience, the Herbie's outperforms most other mats I've used, so you never know. It would be good just to 'put it to bed' once and for all, as it were :)
Marco.
I second the Sound Hi-Fi (Herbie's) mat recommendation. I was shocked at how much better it sounded than the stock rubber, Isoplatmat or felt mats I tried on the 1210.
Had a look on the Sound hifi site. There is one for the SL-12xx and one that is not priced yet - Is it the SL-12xx one or? I will contact them for guidance.
Re: the mat perhaps being tuned for the PL-71 - This could very much have been the case. they probably had a whole dept (back in the good ol' days) working on getting it just right.
Honda had a whole site just for switch gear. Not sure if they can still afford that now.
Thought I'd post this up as it sums up what we heard but in another's words.
"I was explaining the rubber mats to me bro yesterday evening while we
were walking to the pub, also the Stax can being the best I've ever
heard.
I said to him it was the Band's Brown Album that really did it for me.
The whole sound was hung together so perfectly.
The Technics is a very good experiment to see how an arm like that
will sound but it did lack the , I would say, emotional quality and
not all together there on reflection. I was trying to explain it to
the bro but failing as it's a feeling thingy. However. the Pioneer is
a truly wonderful TT and worth every penny.
I was also trying explain about the Oscar Peterson Night train and
how the piano keys lightly tripped off of his fingers with Pioneers
own mat, where as the sound got thicker and leadened with the
Funk. But then I told him about the Who track and how the Funk
tamed down the jangly guitar.
Crazy, crazy, crazy but fun all the same."
The SP10 mat is listed at 250 quid! And the 1210 at 90 quid, the price is buried in the text.
This stuff, cut to size and used in conjunction with the original mat works rather well.. ;) :eyebrows:
http://www.practicalsurfaceware.com/...sories/CB5.htm
I take it that you have used this on the SL-1210Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
That's interesting - you never know quite what config of materials will work for what deck. Might give that a go...