Which Tannoys, folks?

Yes, but they don't sound as good, certainly to my ears... Part of the reason why the Lockwoods work so well is their baffle width (which is coincidentally one of the reasons why Glenairs fail so miserably). 15" drivers, in order to reproduce gut-wrenching scale and depth, need to have big, WIDE, cabinets!! That's why I absolutely hate the fashion today for pencil-thin floorstanders with pityful arrays of teensy-weensy 6 or 8-inch drives, trying to reproduce genuine deep bass and realistic SCALE - it just ain't gonna happen!! :doh:

The other reason why the Lockwoods work is due to their overall construction (tried and tested, as previously used in many top recording studios around the world) and the rather 'interesting' way that they are ported...

Basically, the Lockwoods are a true studio monitor design, but that's only a good thing if you can handle hearing the truth from your music collection, due to their ruthlessly revealing nature (when suitably fettled). Personally, I love that, as they do it so beautifully, and musically, without ever sounding forensic or clinical.

When suitably fettled, they sound musically accurate, but not in a cold sounding and tiring way, like for example, some ATC studio monitors can. Think about it: do you know of any recording studios who use or have used Turnberrys? They're good fun, but ultimately a little too coloured sounding for my tastes.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Reffc

Thanks chaps for all the feedback but one or two guns being jumped here :lol:

I would not in the future buy any loudspeaker without auditioning, it's not worth the risk plus I am not (yet) decided on changing my own loudspeakers. They're too close to a good compromise (isn't it all?) to let go just yet.

I was interested in the differences between Tannoy models as interest was piqued talking with someone last week who has spent a great deal of time and trouble building up his own refurbished 15 inch MG's with new cross-overs and cabs. he reckoned that the best way with Tannoys was old drivers (don't make 'em like they used to...sound familiar?) with modern crossover components.

I heard some DC10's recently and was left very under-whelmed, and years back remember the big bouncy sound I once heard emanating from some Lancaster cabs (not one of my favourites). The only models I've never come across in the flesh have been the Prestige range, including the Glenairs.

What intrigued was that if Glenairs use the same drivers (Tulip wave guides) and x-overs as up to the Turnberry range (they seem to get all ALnico/pepper-pot after that and the price tag goes stratospheric too) what is the reason for the Glenair being the black sheep of the range...a marmite speaker to divide opinion if ever I've come across one?

I have the opportunity of listening to some Turnberrys at the weekend so out of curiosity I will, just to see what all the fuss is about.

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Hi Paul,
i have owned Glenairs, heard the Turnberry,s and Modified Monitor golds in Lockwood cabinets, with modern cross-overs, All on my own power amps etc, The Glenairs Did my head in as there was a severe beaming affect of the mid frequencies that was imposible to correct in my system, no matter what i tried, i think it is mainly down to the profile of the 15" driver rather than the tulip waveguide, on both the Turnberry's and monitor golds, my advice would be to listen to both, with the equipment you intend to use them with if you can, the Turnberry's are a real good speaker for the money, and i think you would be surprised at their performance capabilities, however, if you can find a good pair of monitor golds, in decent cabinets with the cross-overs reworked, at least go and audition them, i guarantee you will be surprised and may even question how far we have come with modern speaker design.
Hope this helps.:)
Anthony,TD...

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Originally Posted by anthonyTD

Hi Paul,
i have owned Glenairs, heard the Turnberry,s and Modified Monitor golds in Lockwood cabinets, with modern cross-overs, All on my own power amps etc, The Glenairs Did my head in as there was a severe beaming affect of the mid frequencies that was imposible to correct in my system, no matter what i tried, i think it is mainly down to the profile of the 15" driver rather than the tulip waveguide, on both the Turnberry's and monitor golds, my advice would be to listen to both, with the equipment you intend to use them with if you can, the Turnberry's are a real good speaker for the money, and i think you would be surprised at their performance capabilities, however, if you can find a good pair of monitor golds, in decent cabinets with the cross-overs reworked, at least go and audition them, i guarantee you will be surprised and may even question how far we have come with modern speaker design.
Hope this helps.:)
Anthony,TD...

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Hi Anthony

Many thanks for your valuable insights. I'm with you on your conclusions after visiting countless hifi shows, having had review speakers through my mits and having home dem'd around two dozen different pairs over the last 10 years or so I do think that we haven't come that far. I have an old book written in 1954 by Rogers on loudspeaker design and not a great deal has really changed in principle today. What was good then remains so today. Whilst magnets and cone materials have got better (as have crossovers) the implementation of the loudspeaker hasn't (with a few notable exceptions).

As Marco says, fashion dictates lean floor standers, multi-driver arrays etc. Whilst I don't agree with Marco that these can't do scale (many can) their main problem remains phase accuracy and complex crossover networks.

Too few loudspeakers "do" treble very well either whilst I'm on my soap box, the Tommy Horning Lotus tweeter design, and possibly the MBL Radialstrahler are the best I've heard, or certainly the most natural. None others I've heard come close.

What appeals with Tannoy is the point source design, the efficiency and the ability to generate believable scale even at low volumes all without the phase-shift issues which plague many designs of today. I'm not a fan of inefficient designs either, as its never simply a matter of bolting on Watts. Their rise/decay characteristics depend on a lot more, and their bass (inefficient designs generally being smaller boxes) always seeming to be forced and unnatural.

I guess my journey has taken me through most of the designs available today (plus many thousands of pounds later!) up to what I would argue to date having been the most faithful to music reproduction,the Harbeth SHL5, but it is I've found a compromise like so many others that I personally may not be able to live with in the scale department. That's what I'm hoping that the Tannoys might bring to the party without too much colouration. Some colouration I can live with. It seems odd for any true audiophile to say that they'd sacrifice tonal accuracy, but if there are compensations which allow greater emotional involvement with music, then so be it.

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Originally Posted by Marco

My crossovers cost me around £1500, and that type of investment is what's needed to get the most from 15MGs. I used Clarity Cap MR caps throughout, Duelund resistors and Mundorf Air-Core Foil-coil inductors. If you want your Tannoys to sound like genuine high-end speakers, as opposed to just tarted-up DIY jobs, then nothing less will do.....

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Absolutely... :) Vintage MG's can still have the Tannoy magic but without the annoying bits but that comes with a price and layout experimentation / fettling.

On my part, I think any interest in modern Tannoy models would be directed towards the Kensington. One which I've yet to hear, but which I hear good things about. At least it uses a true 'pepperpot' type drive unit, I gather. Must get a listen some time. At least its of a domestically manageable size.

Paul, what a nice problem to have! Replacing the Harbs will be tough as you say, the Tannoys could possibly do it though, do let us know how you get on, Turnberrys are on my potential upgrade path with my Compact 7s going in a second system, take your time and enjoy the listening and report back!:)

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Originally Posted by Tarzan

Paul, what a nice problem to have! Replacing the Harbs will be tough as you say, the Tannoys could possibly do it though, do let us know how you get on, Turnberrys are on my potential upgrade path with my Compact 7s going in a second system, take your time and enjoy the listening and report back!:)

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Hi Andy

yes, a very good problem to have! I've had some good advice on here and some equally great advice from Haden Boardman (what Haden doesn't know about Tannoys isn't worth knowing IMHO).

I'll certainly report back on the Turnberrys. The off putting thing about Tulip Waveguide models is that they use an ordinary tweeter with a plastic tube on the end to obtain correct time alignment so will always suffer from honk (even if not too pronounced). However, it's cost that will be the final arbitor in terms of what I can afford to go to now (it may change later).

In response to the Kensington comments, yes it's the one to go for (especially used) but it is then in the realm of true MGs serviced and with new x-overs set into decent cabs, and despite being the new kid on the block, a well sorted original pair will always have the better designed/made drivers (unaffordable to produce these days in fact), so it must be weighed up against looks and sound alone.

For my part, value is an arbitrary notion. I'm not made of money, far from it! However, whatever I scrimp and save to afford, the actual cost will become unimportant 5 or 10 years down the line and individual choice will be determined on performance and quality. If the Turnberrys sound great then there is always the sneaky option of buying a good used pair half price and later fitting 10 or even 12 inch monitor golds or reds :eyebrows:

I stocked Tannoy for many years and sold hundreds of the Stratford for duties in record shops but the larger, more exotic models didn't sell. For instance, we stocked and dem'd the TD10 and TD12 from the Dimension range but despite lots of mag coverage and good reviews, they just didn't sell and we eventually moved the demo models on at a loss.

Similar situation with the present Prestige range which I stocked for three years. I had on demo the Turnberry, Kensington and the model above, name of which escapes me just now. I dem'd them and people liked them but invariably bought something else or went out and bought vintage Tannoy from E-Bay. They are a difficult sell, probably because of the styling and the fact that vintage can be better and a lot cheaper.

Unfortunately, when Tannoy was taken over by the present foreign company, the backup disappeared along with the great, enthusiastic rep we had. I eventually moved on my demo speakers at a loss again.

The range from the Kensington up with 'Pepper pot' and Alnico magnet is a fair bit better than the lower models and based on my experience of trying to sell, should be available at a good price.

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Originally Posted by hifi_dave

I stocked Tannoy for many years and sold hundreds of the Stratford for duties in record shops but the larger, more exotic models didn't sell. For instance, we stocked and dem'd the TD10 and TD12 from the Dimension range but despite lots of mag coverage and good reviews, they just didn't sell and we eventually moved the demo models on at a loss.

Similar situation with the present Prestige range which I stocked for three years. I had on demo the Turnberry, Kensington and the model above, name of which escapes me just now. I dem'd them and people liked them but invariably bought something else or went out and bought vintage Tannoy from E-Bay. They are a difficult sell, probably because of the styling and the fact that vintage can be better and a lot cheaper.

Unfortunately, when Tannoy was taken over by the present foreign company, the backup disappeared along with the great, enthusiastic rep we had. I eventually moved on my demo speakers at a loss again.

The range from the Kensington up with 'Pepper pot' and Alnico magnet is a fair bit better than the lower models and based on my experience of trying to sell, should be available at a good price.

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You've hit the nail on the head David, the modern Prestige range are simply too expensive compared with the (better) vintage equivalents. Having said that and with your last comment ringing loud in my ears, not a single retailer I've spoken to who stocks the Tannoys are willing to give any significant discount (a few hundred quid at best) even though they're not from stock but to order. You'd think in the circumstances that it would be better to make a few hundred quid for a phone call and a bit of paperwork than to make nothing at all and lose a sale?

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The range from the Kensington up with 'Pepper pot' and Alnico magnet is a fair bit better than the lower models and based on my experience of trying to sell, should be available at a good price.

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Completely agree, Dave. The Pepper Pot tweeters and Alnico magnets, quite simply, are a fundamental part of the TRUE Tannoy DC sound, so for that reason the Kensingtion SEs are really where it starts with 'proper' modern DC Tannoys.

For that reason, anyone contemplating buying Turnberrys, as you allude to, should save their money and look out for a deal on used/ex-demo Kensingtions, as sonically, the difference between both is really *that* marked, and is one of the reasons why vintage Monitor Gold drivers offer the highest SPPV option, simply because Alnico magnets and Pepper Pot tweeters are automatically part of the equation!

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As Marco says, fashion dictates lean floor standers, multi-driver arrays etc. Whilst I don't agree with Marco that these can't do scale (many can) their main problem remains phase accuracy and complex crossover networks.

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Although I agree partly with where you're coming from, Paul, what I meant was that, to my ears (and I've owned plenty), no slim floorstanders with multiple arrays of teeny-weeny drive units, can produce the sheer gut-wrenching scale (the type which can pressurise a room and make you almost feel queasy) of any speaker featuring 15" drive units in wide-baffle cabinets, such as my Lockwood Majors - and for that matter, some JBL K2s I heard recently at a friend's house.

You can strap as many 6 or 8-inch drive units to tall, skinny, cabinets as you like, and you'll get deep bass, for sure, but that's an entirely different thing from bombastic, realistic SCALE, and so in comparison with speakers with wide-baffle cabinets ('wardrobes' as you referred to them), with ONE 15" driver per cabinet, they will always sound 'small'. You need to shift AIR!

It's a difficult effect to put into words, but those that have heard what I'm describing will know exactly where I'm coming from :exactly:

Marco.