Amplifier advice for new Harbeth Compact 7s

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Originally Posted by hifi_dave

I use all manner of amps with the Harbeth range and get great results with all, so I wouldn't say the C7's are particularly difficult.

I am inclined to ask, why do you feel the need to change ? Do you have the correct stands for them, otherwise they will have a bit of bass bloom. Are they away from walls and corners ?

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I don't think these are a difficult load at all.

There is no bass bloom, it is rather on the lean side.

I've tried them in a variety of rooms and placement locations, and with three different types of stands.

I have heard them produce better bass and handle orchestral music better with other amps (unfortunately I haven't liked other aspects of those other amps).

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Originally Posted by JJack

Also, my amp is simply running out of steam on some of the complex orchestral music I listen to (on chamber and piano and rock it's perfect). I've heard these speakers on a big solid state home theater amp (Anthem) and the orchestral stuff is better on the big amp, although I'd like to avoid the solid state signature I hear on that particular amp.

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Here's the rub...Harbeths need plenty of power for large orchestral, but they love some nice valves. So without a huge budget where do we compromise; SS power without tube magic, or valves that can't quite cope with the big stuff?

In simple wattage terms, I think Alan Shaw is right in saying that about 50W will do fine most of the time, but 100W comes in handy for the most dynamic passages in orchestral music. I've found a 70W NAP200 is fine for orchestral, but the C7's really lap up the extra power of my 150W Unico DM. On the other hand, when I tried using two DM's in bridge mode, making an extraordinary 400W, I found this extra power to be superflous.

I have to admit that I'm giggling a little bit :lol: at the general tone of the answers, which are tending toward "are you sure it's not you?

or your room?

or your stands?

are you really sure it's not the stands?" :doh:

Please understand that I'm fine-tuning at this point, not correcting gross errors. I'm looking for that little bit of fatness to the french horns in the opening pages of the Bruckner 9th, I'm looking for the double basses to sit on the open fifth in the beginning of Also Sprach as the violins soar into the stratosphere; I'm looking for the bass foundation underlying the closing pages of Appalachian Spring, etc.

Let me put it this way: if I gave you my brand-new Harbeth Compact 7es-3s and awesome stands, and then I gave you up to 3000 pounds to buy an amp, what would you buy?

The winning answer will receive most of a pint of Guinness :cool: the next time I'm in the UK

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Originally Posted by Elephantears

Here's the rub...Harbeths need plenty of power for large orchestral, but they love some nice valves. So without a huge budget where do we compromise; SS power without tube magic, or valves that can't quite cope with the big stuff?

In simple wattage terms, I think Alan Shaw is right in saying that about 50W will do fine most of the time, but 100W comes in handy for the most dynamic passages in orchestral music. I've found a 70W NAP200 is fine for orchestral, but the C7's really lap up the extra power of my 150W Unico DM. On the other hand, when I tried using two DM's in bridge mode, making an extraordinary 400W, I found this extra power to be superflous.

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Just pulled up a review of the Unico DM after reading your post, seems very promising.

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Originally Posted by JJack

Just pulled up a review of the Unico DM after reading your post, seems very promising.

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Yes, but just to make things more complicated, it might even be a bit too powerful for Harbeths in a small room. I'm a bit torn between my Naim and the Unico amps at the moment, because whilst the Unicos are more revealing, extended and dynamic (and generally more of everything), the Naims have more like the right scale for a medium sized living room. They roll off the bass a bit, which is inaccurate but often useful. This roll off at the frequency extremes pushes things into the mids; again inaccurate, but an appealing srtategy which often focuses what's important. The Unicos are also very demanding of sources; you have to be sure they work in your set-up.

I've heard the Hard 5s with EAR 834 and the results are simply jaw dropping. Tricky call though, your budget opens a cavern of opportunity !

Personally, I was trying to help you achieve what I know the C7ES is capable of without prompting you to spend thousands of Dollars/Pounds on an amp.

I use the Harbeth range every day (except Christmas day) and I know how good they can be but they do need good stands to provide solid, taut bass and they do need to be away from walls. Having made sure that is OK, you should be able to achieve the desired results without spending a fortune.

Here, I use Croft and Naim with particularly good results. I also get great sounds with Rega amps, Albarry, EAR, LFD and Puresound. I've also been getting nice sounds from vintage Crown amps. The speakers aren't fussy and are an easy load for the amp, so you don't need Kilowatts of power.

Being in the States you have access to many good amps at far better prices than we have here, so why not try a few using your pre and see what suits. I'd advise not to look at low powered valve/tube amps though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JJack

I have to admit that I'm giggling a little bit :lol: at the general tone of the answers, which are tending toward "are you sure it's not you?

or your room?

or your stands?

are you really sure it's not the stands?" :doh:

Please understand that I'm fine-tuning at this point, not correcting gross errors. I'm looking for that little bit of fatness to the french horns in the opening pages of the Bruckner 9th, I'm looking for the double basses to sit on the open fifth in the beginning of Also Sprach as the violins soar into the stratosphere; I'm looking for the bass foundation underlying the closing pages of Appalachian Spring, etc.

Let me put it this way: if I gave you my brand-new Harbeth Compact 7es-3s and awesome stands, and then I gave you up to 3000 pounds to buy an amp, what would you buy?

The winning answer will receive most of a pint of Guinness :cool: the next time I'm in the UK

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Originally Posted by hifi_dave

Here, I use Croft and Naim with particularly good results. I also get great sounds with Rega amps, Albarry, EAR, LFD and Puresound. I've also been getting nice sounds from vintage Crown amps. The speakers aren't fussy and are an easy load for the amp, so you don't need Kilowatts of power.

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Dave, what kind of results have you had using a Croft pre with an alternative power amp? We had reports here of the Croft pre working well with the Albarry monoblocks, which is an intriguing combination, but a bit expensive. Can you suggest what non-Croft power amps might work well with the Micro 25R for Compact 7's. Following the OP's search for something valve-like but with enought power for the big orchestral transients.

Well, over the years, there's not much I haven't used Croft pre's with - Krell, Audio Research, Levinson, EAR, Naim, Quad, Radford, Leak, Puresound, LFD, etc etc. Lately, I have been getting very good results with the Albarry mono's and of course, Croft's own excellent power-amps.

Don't forget vintage Crown D Series amps as well :D

If the OP hasn't done this already, a good look on the Harbeth site and the user group would be a good idea, as along with personal subjective opinions in one area, there are research papers and articles on the speakers themselves, with advice on how and where to use them.

By the way, the SHL5 has an extra half to one octave of bass extension, but it does need careful siting away from walls for the bass not to overshadow the lovely midrange it has. Just my thoughts...