Printable View
Hi MarkQuote:
Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant
I think that big drivers, particularly when horn loaded, seem to be able to move the air in the room effortlessly. It's a bit like driving a 4.2 litre Jag on the motorway at 70mph. It's working well within its capabilities and it shows. A small driver trying to do the same thing is going like stink and that extra effort is reflected in the quality of the output which by comparison sounds strained.
Kind regards
David
What you say is true if you are asking a smaller driver to do deep bass, if it isn't & other drivers are then there is no strain...
There is also less intermodulation distortion as the smaller driver doing say 150Hz upwards isn't flapping about like a single one would which was reproducing 30Hz. So you won't be modulating your midrange with a 30Hz signal ;)
Also as I pointed out, the smaller driver given the same diaphram stiffness/thickness of material will act as a piston to a higher frequency.
Just thought of another one. A smaller diaphram is also omnidirectional to a higher frequency as well.
Win, win, win situation using a smaller driver from say 150Hz upwards & a seperate bass or bass drivers :cool:
Mmm... Don't forget the huge value to some of the 'point source' effect and the superb imaging abilities and coherence, associated with that, provided by Tannoy DCs ;)
Whenever I listen to 'normal' speakers now, with multiple drive units for reproducing different parts of the frequency range, the sound is rather 'disjointed' in comparison, as I find myself listening to bass, midrange and treble 'firing' at me almost as separate entities, rather than, tonally, blending seamlessly and unobtrusively into the musical mix, as one gets with the best Tannoy DCs.
Aside from their other enviable traits, the above reason would be enough to make it very difficult for me to want to change from my Monitor Golds to speakers with multiple drive units, no matter how good those drive units were at what they did, individually or collectively... :)
Marco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Hi Marco
That's spot on.
I had a friend round (my wife very disparagingly says, to "play") on Friday evening and his comment was that the Tannoys present the recorded ambience whatever it is, in a totally coherent and believable way. Like you, I think this is down to the overall coherence of the sound. Big things sound big and small things sound small and you get a real sense of the space around instruments and voices on well recorded material. Many smaller speakers do not seem to have the ability to differentiate scale in this way. Everything sounds either small or overblown, usually the former. I am probably luckier than many because my music room is large and the speakers are able to sit 17' apart which makes a huge difference in the imaging department.
I find it disorientating when I listen to other peoples' systems playing recordings I know, because the Tannoys, create a totally different type of all enveloping experience. I have to adjust my listening when I go somewhere else and my visitors have to do likewise when they come to me.
Still it all contributes to making audio the fascinating hobby that it is.
David:):cool:
Hi David,
Absolutely. Big Tannoy DCs do that better than any other speakers I've heard. They're not perfect, no speakers are, but if you value the effect you've described, and for me it's fundamental in creating an illusion that one is listening to 'real' instruments and voices, as opposed to an unconvincing facsimile of such, then nothing else will do!Quote:
I had a friend round (my wife very disparagingly says, to "play") on Friday evening and his comment was that the Tannoys present the recorded ambience whatever it is, in a totally coherent and believable way.
Yup! I've heard speakers with smaller drive units, augmented by huge sub-woofers, tall floor-standers, ported with multiple arrays of 6 or 8" drivers, huge floor-standers with twin 12" bass units, and all sorts, but NONE create the sense of effortless scale (and scale is a very different thing from low-frequency bass extension), as ONE 15" driver (per side) in huge enclosures, such as with your Westies, or to a lesser degree, my Lockwoods.Quote:
Like you, I think this is down to the overall coherence of the sound. Big things sound big and small things sound small and you get a real sense of the space around instruments and voices on well recorded material. Many smaller speakers do not seem to have the ability to differentiate scale in this way.
When listening to live rock music, and also to live classical performances, when an orchestral movement hits a full cresendo; the sense of 'physicality' and SCALE is enormous: the sheer 'thrust' from the sound, which travels through your body, is monumental in its intensity (if you like to sit near the front of the concert hall, like I do!) - and big Tannoy DCs replicate that effect better than any other speakers I've heard, which in comparison, just play at it. To obtain maximum realism from recorded music, that effect is very important for me.
Yup - ditto! But when I do, if the system is good, I usually appreciate and enjoy the different 'take' it has on reproducing recorded music. Like you say, it's simply a matter of acclimatisation.Quote:
I find it disorientating when I listen to other peoples' systems playing recordings I know, because the Tannoys, create a totally different type of all enveloping experience. I have to adjust my listening when I go somewhere else and my visitors have to do likewise when they come to me.
Absolutely - it would be a very boring world if we all liked the same thing!!Quote:
Still it all contributes to making audio the fascinating hobby that it is.
Marco.
I'm not convinced that for small to medium sized rooms that subs or multiple large drivers are necessary at all to reproduce low bass effortlessly. There are difficulties with going down the multiple driver/box/subwooder route not least of which is phase accuracy and the additional intrusion into the room of multiple boxes and cables.
For my own room (about 20ft by 14ish), the single pair of 10 inch drivers deliver more than enough bass and do it effortlessly. Tom has heard what they're capable of in my room and I'm sure would agree that they probably have as much of not greater authority than his 15 inch MGs, and most poeple who've never heard the Prestige range but own or have heard the older Tannoys have said the same thing. The newer prestige range do the bass thing very well indeed. Greater power handling and good cabinet design are part of the reason.
The comments above about the single point advantages of DC's are also very true. None of the other Tannoy multilpe driver ranges (newer ones) seem to image as well as the single DC units. The however only becomes much of an issue for closer listening and nearfield listening. In a larger room I'm sure it wouldn't be as much of an issue. My previous Horning Agathon Ultimates and Lumley Lampros 300AB's were equally as convincing to my ears in a large room. Close too though (3m or less) and the Tannoy DCs win out every time for my tastes.
+1 :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
That is the magic that you just don't get with a multi-way design. It's the most natural sound I've ever heard and yet they can 'REALLY' boogie. It's all about that single point that seems to make you want to sit down and listen.
Also, I've never found a genre of music that they don't do.. Rock, Dance, Electronica, Classical... I've thrown the lot at mine and they just don't even flinch.. They just do everything with style.. love em!
Depends on the sort of music you listen to. One of the things I hate about multi-driver speakers is the bass (especially upper bass which you'd certainly get from a 12in driver) coming from 'below the horizon'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant
I recall borrowing some mid-spec Martin Logans, which tonally were quite nice, then my wife came in and asked why the string quartet I had on had a really tall pair of violinists, but a midget cellist coming of of the bottom of the speaker unit. I had noticed this but when she put it in those terms, it became a bit of a joke. Probably less of an issue with rock music, perhaps but for classical chamber music, MLs just don't cut it.
I think the sort of multi-driver arrangement proposed here would have similar problems, I've certainly heard the same from Open Baffle designs where the bass frequencies are tipped down towards the floor. Though it may not be impossible to limit these issues with a good cabinet design.
On your post Paul, I do agree the bass from the 10in driver low and solid - possibly less of a drop-of than with my 15in GRFs - though that's a cabinet issue, with the GRFs you gain mid-horn punch but trade it for a steeper than normal drop-off in low bass response below. Cabinets like the Lockwood Major would definitely get more bass out of 15in cones than a 10in. (As do the cheapo Lancaster cabs though 'more' bass is not necessarily 'better' with such a poor cabinet design).
Overall I feel the smaller Tannoys are very good but I prefer the big ones as they just have a greater sense of scale and authority. The tricky thing to get right with the big vintage drivers is the crossovers, I've found the originals to be a bit ragged around the crossover frequency of 1khz, a very tricky zone, a combination of using premium components and enough current from a good PP design gets rid of all that.
[QUOTE=Reffc;389443]I'm not convinced that for small to medium sized rooms that subs or multiple large drivers are necessary at all to reproduce low bass effortlessly. There are difficulties with going down the multiple driver/box/subwooder route not least of which is phase accuracy and the additional intrusion into the room of multiple boxes and cables.
Hi Paul
I agree. Big drivers in small rooms are not a good idea. There is a need to optimise and if considering speakers for the smaller room a good 10"DC is likely to win out every time. The Kensington which I have heard many times is a good example. It is almost impossible to control the bass output from large units in too small a space. Some would say you should treat the room. I am not a fan of room treatment which in my experience is a blunt instrument. You intend to lose not only things you don't want to lose but also things you do not. Some people may benefit if they have a particularly bad room but otherwise I would avoid it. I may be in a minority on this and in any event I am fortunate that my room is very benign sonically.
There was an interesting demo at Whittlebury with identical kit in treated and untreated rooms. I preferred the untreated room because the sound had life and energy. In the treated room, to my ears the sound was dull and lifeless.
David:):)
[QUOTE=tannoyman;389459]The big drivers certainly like a big room, on moving from a 3.5m x 5m house (firing length-wise) to 5.5m x 7.5m room, the performance of the GRFs improved significantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reffc