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I am more convinced using a CDP for digital playback than streaming or File Based Audio so it is really about finding the best combination of CDP and DAC or in this case just a great CD Player with its own great DAC.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakefield Turntables
I probably had the same magazine Martin and the Meridian 206 would have been way out of my price range then.
But having listened to it I have to say those Meridian guys certainly knew what they were doing then with their implementation of the Phillips TDA 1541 chip and CD mechanism. Their reworking of these items delivers a magnificent sound even by todays standard!
Mr Lampizator is not of a very high opinion of the 207. Is the 206 better than the 207?
I ask as there is a cheap 207 being sold locally.
I believe the 206 lost the preamplifier of the 207 but has a better dedicated audio stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyH
Another ramble.... The mighty ATC SCM 150 ASL speakers with CHORD DAVE DAC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANvjavUhkc
Excellent again mate. What a system :interesting:
Yes indeed mate. Fabulous sound, Old school meets modern I felt. Good combination.Quote:
Originally Posted by brian2957
Nice review. Can we have one with the system playing? I know that some may say that there is no point etc etc etc but it's a bit like watching a cooking programme where they taste the food and make all these appreciative noises but the viewer is left to wonder.
I will record a bit when next up there and pop it up as a Youtube short!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin
Thanks James. It's not only to get some of idea of sound but the sort of music that is played as one may not have heard it before and can try it in your own system. I have recorded a 10min vid of my system with various short snippets of what I listen to, despite having a YT channel from years ago my latest phone won't transfer the vid to my laptop so that I can load it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
The only problem maybe copyright contravention when playing music via Youtube.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin
Is this the same fellow who had the KEF Blades? If so which did you prefer, KEF or ATC?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Yes same chap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
To be honest they are both great in their own way. The Blades are more controlled and the ATCs are warmer maybe more natural? I liked both very much but would probably choose the Blades for my own system. However I would like to hear the ATC SCM 100s as they could be ideal size/performance.
I had a listen to the 100s many years ago now at one of the Wigwam shows, I thought they were really good, and they could properly kick it out even in a huge room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
They had the active 50 SE at the show the other week, they'd be more than enough for any non-ballroom size space I reckon. But actives not for me, too much aggro if there's a problem with the amps. You can't just swap in another and carry on. Whole thing has to go for repair.
Never heard Blades sound good but sure that's due to KEFs poor set up at the shows. I think I would like them if done right.
Yeah the 50s are nice and heard some up at Steves but then moved onto the 150s which are in another league. You could almost run a small gig with them. I feel I would go for the passive versions of the ATC myself but the amps they use for the actives are built in house and tailored to the speakers very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
I have heard the blades for years and they can sound truly awesome but need a decent amp with lots of grunt. They are a weird speaker in that they don't sound like the look or what you expect but I have been very impressed with them.
I own active 50's and can say that have been completely faultless and pretty much bomb proof from day one, mine could probably do with being upgraded as new amp packs and driver units have been designed since I purchased mine. I have to agree that 50's are more than enough for your average listening room. Partnered with a ATC pre-amp and you have an amazing (well IMHO) that will last for decade and be totally neutral.
Didn't know you had 50s Andy. They are a nice size but I could certainly fit the 100s in my new listening room?:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakefield Turntables
Yep, had them quite some time now, bought 2nd hand for way less than what they cost nowadays! I've got two big Tannoy wardrobes in my listening room that would probably dwarf the 100's, altough I bet there wouldn't be that much in it size wise.
The 100s cost the thick end of 21 grand and you're probably not ever going to want the additional levels they can do in your room - isn't that room you listened to them in very large - IIRC?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Mind they are only £4K more than the 50 so I suppose you might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb ;)
So a pair of 50's is now £17K :eek:.
Yeah, they're not exactly giving them away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakefield Turntables
Yes the room dwarfs even the 150s. They are not particularly tall speakers but massive bulk. The front baffles are about an inch thick! Effortless bass and room filling dynamics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Spendy!
Indeed Gary as was the rest of the system I was listening too. Cables alone were around £50,000!:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Always good to hear top end gear even if you can't afford it as it gives you a benchmark of sorts. However I think careful selection of moderately priced equipment, room integration, acoustic control, set up and some synergy can deliver a very compelling performance without spending stratospheric amounts of cash.
Reminds me of a dealer recommended system I saw a while back where the speaker cables cost more than the speakers. £6K cables with £5.5K speakers. When you could have £11K speakers and a very generous £500 for the cables. Not hard to guess which system would be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
It really is a shame people get this sort of advice.
At least with speakers you can see and hear where your money has been spent. Cables.... not so easy?
I don't regret any of the ton of money I've spent on hi-fi over the decades except the money I spent on cables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
People got to find their own way - but when someone asks me about cables I just say spend enough to get something that's properly made and leave it there and forget about cables for the rest of your life.
Might be cost a few hundred but that's it. Regardless of the cost or capability of the system.
Glenn Croft used some black and decker lawn mower cable once in a system he exhibited at a show.:)
So did Peter Walker except he went a bit posh and did Flymo!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I wonder if the differences can be heard between lawn mower cables?;):)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakefield Turntables
Flymo has more air and space. Elevates the music.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
very good!:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Was it Glen Croft who, when he was asked by a customer what cable to use, answered, 'One that's long enough to reach.'
Maybe that was Walker.
It was definitely Peter Walker in reply to a question about what were the requirements of a good speaker cable. His reply was that all that was required of a speaker cable was:Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
(1) it should be long enough to reach between speaker and amplifier, and
(2) the colour of the cable insulation should match that of the carpet over which it runs.
Regarding lawnmower cable, it is definitely directional. It is what causes the stripes to occur when you mow the lawn. ;)
Unlike with your mate's set up, 'Chasing the Dragon' used their SCM150s on tall frame stands which must have been at least 600mm. They sounded fantastic to my ears, and filled the (very) large room visually and aurally. Shame it was all classical music, I had no point of reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
https://hifipig.com/wp-content/uploa...IMG_6452-1.jpg
It is not difficult to spend £50K on audio cables. I make up all of mine and have spent around five times that amount on them. Here's why:
First I have to prepare mind and body for the task through meditation and fasting. Next all the components, cable, connectors, solder and necessary tools have to be purged of any negative energy they might have acquired.
The actual assembly must be carried out under the light of a full moon, and only when there is an 'r' in the month.
Finally they are sent off by personal courier to the Dalai Lama for his blessing and to 'burnt in' using his personal stereo system.
As you can appreciate, all this time and effort is very expensive, but more than worthwhile. :lol:
Dalai Lama gives me mates' rates.
Having seen him on telly kissing those boys I think I know what you're talking about.
Reckon lawnmower cable wouldn’t sound as good as the cables used in Jimbo’s mate’s system?
Maybe a reason he spent the money, just saying’
that said,
be fun to compare!
It's Man's inalienable right to waste/spend as much money as he likes on bits of wire.
I think he's a dealer so he probably didn't spend the money, at least not personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
£24K on speakers and amps and £60K on cables for them, regardless if you think cables matter or not, that just doesn't compute - for me anyway.
I agree! More than that, I cannot see how you can sensibly spend £60K on cables anyway: hence my sarcastic post earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
I personally have only ever spent modest sums on cables but I do think they make a difference. Not so sure about ultra expensive cables as the law of diminishing returns sets in pretty quick. I would always rather spend my money on speakers. I have auditioned some exotic cables at exotic prices and quite often I have preferred the cheaper end in my system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
I think they can make a difference if their LCR is extreme in some way (you can buy cables with those little boxes attached that contain zobel networks that probably do something) or if there is an impedance matching issue between components in the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
But in my system/room I cannot perceive any difference between several hundred quid's worth of thick as hosepipe, super pure copper, six separate conductors, with top dollar connectors speaker cable, and some generic 79 strand with the crappiest, worst looking plugs you ever saw, that I bought used for a tenner.
I just use the expensive one as it looks the part. And yes, before anyone asks, my system is 'very revealing', probably one of the most revealing systems I ever heard. Ofc it could just be my hearing is shot...
I have borrowed all sorts of cables from different folk to try in my system over the years and I believe I can hear the differences between copper and silver/plated and the differences between plug types but the margins are fine compared to different amps and speakers.
I dont believe plug types make any difference: regardless of whether they are bunch pin; O-Z, or a single cylindrical tube with a side pressure spring wire. They either make a low resistance connection, or they don't.
If they don't make a low resistance connection then they may make a difference though. Plus other factors like the gauge of the cable and how long the run is. Thin cable over a long run you are going to get losses that might be audible at the frequency extremes. But that will be a frequency response error and nothing to do with inherent 'quality' of the transmitted signal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
There's always some edge cases if you look for them.
Have to say even if I accepted there were benefits to spending a lot on cables, sixty grand surely goes way, way past the end point of diminishing returns. I mean it's a wire, how good can it possibly get?
But then the big mark up on cables makes them the sweetest plum of any hi-fi product sale, so there's a conflict of interest there.
It would be a shame to "invest" £60k on speaker cable, only to have all your efforts ruined by allowing them to come into contact with your £5 per metre contract cord carpet and all the static it generates. So you're gonna need some of these:
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiksLKkgbiHAxVPlVAGHaFVAN8YABAW GgJkZw&co=1&ase=2&gclid=CjwKCAjw4_K0BhBsEiwAfVVZ_6-DggV6I-PYUxEzEilHIswzg2AWBQhUF7Duv7tUNu8s97LXSKjjGxoCeNAQ AvD_BwE&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESVeD2IAG2a640s TwvFwpKT0jY0FsS3BAh61bf0JRGyRpkcGVGmiCKbPTIsYl67MI TS6YYxj14jTsnMcXhKq9UDw2MO7BK5ykZ72VOGSKVBDSTtVwrV GI&sig=AOD64_0H-pPDhB5FMgM2Celk7TCJNh8fZw&ctype=5&q=&nis=4&ved=2ah UKEwjO_q2kgbiHAxW4RkEAHcuND5MQ9aACKAB6BAgDEDE&adur l=
Ok they may seem a bit pricey, especially as £798 only gets you one, and you'll probably need a few. But then they are made of Krion and Panzerholz wood. And held together with Japanese thermoplastic screws. None of your Chinese crap here.
I was talking about the plugs, not the cable. Obviously 'bell wire' will have a higher resistance per unit length than, say, a cable of 20A rating (such as QED79). When I replaced the 5A lighting flex feeding my speakers with QED79, the resistance was roughly halved, and for a given perceived volume level, the volume control on my preamp did not have to be turned as far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
I know, I was just mentioning cable gauge and length as potential factors in 'cable differences'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
Poorly soldered plugs can increase resistance, noise and distortion - but like you I am sceptical that the material they are made from makes any change to the signal, let alone one large enough to be audible.