Albert's number is 01663 742695.
Ed.
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Albert's number is 01663 742695.
Ed.
I will come back to the heritage hi-fi companies latter, but I am in need of a new rant.
Loudspeaker Manufacturers.
Where do they think they get off!!
They think *they are* the industry and everyone else is just here to serve them and provide the means for their beauties to show how wonderfull they are. Well then if they don't sound wonderfull it is obviously the fault of - pick from many - the acoustic, source manufacturer, amplifier manufacturer, cable manufacturer, recording studio, pressing plant, the weather, the designers wife is at the wrong time of the month etc etc. Anything but their bloody awfull loudspeakers.
Plus they think the industry revolves around them and they are cutting edge technology, what a load of old poop. Speakers are so easy to make any bloke here could do it by just buying drivers from Wilmslow and using an old cupboard and a saw. And I will tell you what, they will probably sound better than 50% of the crap out there being foisted on us.
Anechoic chambers, computer modelling, digital design, space age materials - all justification for creating over complicated, over designed, over ego-ed, monstrosities. Speakers are simple, understand simple and they simply work or they don't, and what is the arbetter, well your good old lugholes. Now you have probably gathered from my rants that I am not a flat earth loving man, well by and large you will be wrong. I hate the BS of it, and the NLP, and basically the arrogance of the likes of Ivor T after making a fortune from a dead mans work, that just makes me boil. BUT flat earth concepts of source and subjective reasoning is still spot on. A speaker cannot perform unless the rest is right, and falls apart if what is before it is only partly right. But get source right then get amplifier then get cable right and a partly right loudspeaker will sing. There have even been retailers who get the system right and give you loudspeakers because in the past there were little marvels who sang like the devil for next to nothing - JPW - Diamonds etc. Put some of the over designed monstrosities from the likes of BMW and Kef on the end and you likely have just a flat fart.
This concept applies to many things in life and is very true of my other love Tai-Chi. In terms of structure if your feet are wrong then everything else is wrong no matter how right it is. Think of your feet (your root) as source - you centre as amplifier - your arms are the loudspeakers - the sinues and bones are stands and cables. Well without your reference (root) and your power (centre) what comes out of the hands and arms is weak energetically, it may be hard but it has no power.
There are analogies all over many different aspects for this.
So please can we have some manufacturers of loudspeakers back in the UK that just try to be simple, not trying to over power us with their technical excellence, as it is just another industry bullshit. Speakers are simple - keep it that way - to improve go for quality not design quantity. Stop killing cabinets with over damping and design freaks (like snails). Just go for rigidity and coupling. Stop killing amplifiers by designing crossovers that make ridiculous phase changes by over complication, too many legs, too many component, too steep a filters. Stop killing the music by blocking the good work done by source and amplifiers from ever even meeting the air, because you want to show your design skill.
Answer - lets get some good UK speakers back, the Yanks are overtaking us in good simple design, look at Zu for one - get (original) JPW and Royd back into production for a start that will help. Just ask Jerry if he can find a modern speaker to compete with the good oldies. And stop buying speakers and then trying to get everything else to match them. Like starting a race standing on your head, complete nonsense.
Better but still not good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shian7
Why not try to design a cabinet that needs no damping, it can be done, damping is a cure not an essential.
Why not design a bass / mid driver than needs no filtering to be relatively flat. It can be done, crossover filters are a cure not an essential.
Why not design HF drivers to only need a blocking cap, it can be done, croosover filters are a cure not an essential.
Hmmm..... sounds like you're saying "why not design an Epos ES14" (you'll have to ignore the foam inside though)!
:lolsign:
You still don't understand. Nothing is essential not even the design process. If I could grow a pea that played music what would be the point of designing and building *equipment*.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shian7
Arse about face - cart before horse - design for the sake of design - justification of job title and salary.
Start at the begining with your source (unless you want to change that and then you have real politics and another set of fun entirely). LP - CD - Computer - Tuner. OK now do the minimum necessary to reproduce that source at the level you need it. Everything else is just so much BS.
Eh?...
It was just a light hearted reply to your previous post where you say "why not design...." quite a lot!
The ES14 is just such a speaker, apart from having a bit of foam inside!
I give up....
You've got speaker design experience don't you? Here's an idea. Why don't you come up with some BS Free designs that the average DIY'er can put together without special tools, then post those designs FOC on the net?Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Let's see what you come up with for in three categories - < £200/pr, < £500/pr and < £1000/pr
If a few of the other forum members chipped in we could build the £200 design and put it to the test. It would make an interesting bakeoff, don't you think?
So you want to give me more work - well do it your bloody self.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Frost
If you were capable of reading and understanding the thread you will see that my point is that you do not need designers. In fact more often than not if they get involved they mess it up as the process is "entirely" subjective. Buy some drive units, bolt them in an old cupboard and then listen. If they don't work properly then change them, change the cabinet, change the drivers until it does. What you get then is a simple loudspeaker that sings. Usual way if it doesn't work straight off is to compensate for it not working. Instead of stopping the illness in the first place they try to cure it. So now you put in damping panels, foam etc. You put in filters and many legged crossovers. YOU COCK IT UP! You end up with a music strangler.
If you want complete simplicity then buy a Fostex full range and mount it on a piece of marine ply, open baffle. As simple as you can get, and it works, it is not perfect but it doesn't strangle the music.
I see the old chesnut "music strangler" has raised its head again :lolsign:
Only pulling your leg - I know exactly where you're coming from. You're making sense, but perhaps generalising too much (again).
Marco.