Car (or bike) Chat!

Leasing is the future of new cars,.. It's getting that buying a car is going to be a handicap

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Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony

She's not really fussed about the diesel/petrol/electric/hybrid options, she just likes the look of the C-HR. Grant's post about their battery life is heartening though - their life has nothing to do with any moving parts, it's just that batteries will lose their ability to accept and hold a charge will reduce over time. But ten years is better than I expected.

Ultimately I'll let it be her decision, though I think we'll probably settle on a new shape Civic (1.5 Sport Plus), one of the few cars we both agree on :)

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The CHR is a fantastic car in every way, personally i'd have one over a Civic any day of the week.
In all the time i worked for Toyota/Lexus we changed a handful of batteries and none were charged for, not even for the first gen imported prius with no service history. Really not something to worry about.
If a car looks good and makes you feel good driving it, then buy it.
Nothing better than opening the curtains in the morning and looking at a car that makes you smile, rather than looking at a dreary pile of shite that may or not save a polar bear from starving.

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Originally Posted by struth

Leasing is the future of new cars,.. It's getting that buying a car is going to be a handicap

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Thats very true. PCP is a great way of having a new car every say 2-3 years with no worry of the thing going wrong and if it does, then warranty will cover it.
We, as a nation seem obsessed with "owning" a car.
Yes, PCP is dead money, but so is depreciation from buying one.

If we got a car on lease, I would be dreading the "give it back" time. When they saw the 45,000 miles on the clock they would pull down Anita's pants and give her a right spanking (financially of course). Be ok if we only did Grant-size mileages, but I walk further than that in a year, and I don't walk anywhere.

Think I get 20k a year allowance

We've done 110,000 miles in 7 years in the Civic, so we should be ok then :)

The over mileage isn't horrendous unless it's silly over. Mine is with motability. Might not be cheapest way but its easy and everything is done for u. Only costs are petrol really. I'm averaging 60mpg but can get more if I want it. That's fine for me as my driving is mostly town.

And yes it's a pleasure to look at and drive. Plus via motability I got the hoist for my scooter in boot.

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Originally Posted by InThe Sticks

Just rambling here (and all in my opinion and experience) but I’m going to try and at least explain why main dealers charge what they do for the service they provide.

Is it always good value..

No, not all, not even close in some cases i.e routine servicing, but even then we get cars in that have been to an independent with the incorrect oil in and see what that does to the MPG of a hybrid, also engine warning lights because they haven’t reset the cars computer and/or told it that it’s had new parts and the most common one is when changing rear brake pads or trying to bleed the brakes on a hybrid.
Both if not done correctly will end up with a non functioning brake system or at worse (and it happens, 2 knackered calipers as the pistons automatically wind themselves out of the calipers because the mechanic doesn’t know how to disable the auto handbrake.
Get a complex fault with your car and see what happens with an independent. I’ve seen countless cars come into the workshop with a million new parts fitted and the cure not found. The chances being if that the customer came to us first we’d have known what the fault is as we see them often as we only work on one brand of car. That’s not to say we get it right 100% of the time, but if we get it wrong we don’t charge.
Please don’t think i’m knocking independent garages, because i’m not. They can offer superb value for money on older tech cars, but the way things are going and in the next 10-15 years they just won’t (and don’t now) have the equipment or the correct training to work on the average car.
I’ve worked for main dealers for well over 20 years and every training course i’ve done (and theres been many many many of them) costs a small fortune, and not only for the course but for hotel accommodation etc as most last a few days.
As has been previously mentioned theres the EV cars and safety risks (i’m Toyota/Lexus hybrid trained) but if i’m completely honest one would have to be a monumental moron to get a shock off any hybrid as every single single component is pretty much idiot proof bar actually cutting through the power cables. Try and tamper with the battery or inverter and the car will shut down it’s power as to do that would mean removing safety plugs. But again, the training is expensive.
Without proper manufacturer factory training one can’t even lift a spanner because it’s required to work on their cars.

Also, the buying public in general expect a clean flashy showroom, expensive coffee/biscuits, quiet workstations, free Wifi and smartly dressed well trained people to talk to when buying a new/used car or getting their car serviced. This all has to be paid for and it’s no secret who eventually pays for it, but that’s no different to any other retail environment.
Also figure in the staff costs, as in getting the right people. There is a serious lack of young talent in the industry these days as very few kids want into the motor trade as a tech. It all seems too much hard work for the little princesses and low and behold they might get their hands dirty. That said, we have a guy who’s just turned 20 who’s earning in excess of £30K without breaking a sweat.

Some people save all their lives to have a “brand” new car and want the best and most memorable experience when doing so, try achieving that in a grotty little portacabin with a salesman who can’t string a coherent sentence together.

Whether one dislikes main dealers and feel they rip off people will never change, and in my opinion they are utterly over the top expensive for some of the basic stuff, but as i said, when stuff gets complicated the only people who know the car better is the people that made the thing in the first place.
Buckle up, like it or not It’s only going to get worse folks.

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My experience of main dealers is that they are manufacturer licenced con artists

Toyota main dealer did recall work on my wife's Auris and also carried out a "health check" on the car which was handed back to me without comment.
On arriving home I received an email from them stating that my car had a "red light" from the health check, this was described as a fault that "was an mot failure and may make the car unsafe to drive" on contacting Motor line Toyota I was told that this "dangerous fault" was low aircon refrigeratorant.

When my wife took our Astra to Drive Vauxhall they called her at work advising her that the car needed two new tyres as they were below the legal limit . I called them asking how how far they had driven as the tyres in question were 2 weeks old, they apologised and claimed they got the job sheet mixed up with another car.

Dovercourt VW had my brother in laws Golf in to replace a damaged exhaust valve (obviously head off job) under warranty they advised him to have the cambelt changed at the same time and then tried to charge him 4 hours labour to fit the belt which had been removed anyway, apparently it takes 4 hours to open the box containing the new belt.

According to Saab's dealer software (now freely available since they went bust) they charge 3 hours per side to change the front shocks on a 9-3, I can do both sides in 3 hours on my drive with no air tools.

Sure some will try it on. But do do independents.

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Originally Posted by Gaz

According to Saab's dealer software (now freely available since they went bust) they charge 3 hours per side to change the front shocks on a 9-3, I can do both sides in 3 hours on my drive with no air tools.

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That's not uncommon.
When the 2nd gen Auris came out there were a few faults and as such they needed reporting, but we were not allowed to repair them before staff from the factory inspected the failed items.
In one case it took two of them almost a day to do something we could have done in an hour or less. The fact that we were ripping the piss out of them probably didnt help, but the problem is that these people set the FRT's (flat rate times) that the dealers charge.
That said, most places i've worked charge by "time taken" rather than FRT's. Which is a lot more fair and honest.