Nah - at the moment, at any rate, it's just the classifieds and the PM section still.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman91
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Nah - at the moment, at any rate, it's just the classifieds and the PM section still.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman91
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by montesquieu
Well said, Tom, spot on.
We'll have to see how they pan out in practise, but the announced changes seem to be very much in the right direction to me. :)
From what Alfie says about the likely changes in Wigwam v2.0 it sounds like James is definitely doing the right things to achieve a best of both - the anything goes spirit of a members club, and public areas where things are little easier going. Good luck to James and the other mods over on Wigwam in making it work, I know from experience these things don't just happen, and they'll be spilling some sweat to bring it all together :)
Absolutely, Nick, and I of course share your sentiments.
Let's just remember, too, chaps that this thread is about Wigwam, and NOT James himself, his personality – or even Richard! ;)
However, within that context, this is an open forum, and so everyone is entitled to voice their opinion on the thread subject: Wigwam, and the current happenings there.
In that respect, Alfie, I think you’re protesting rather too much and turning your legitimate opinion on a community you no doubt feel a big part of, into no more than a rant, and unfortunately in the process devaluing some valid points, so try and keep your emotions in check, dude!
Foul language aside, what do you think of certain, let’s call them, 'vociferous' characters on Wigwam, showing more TOLERANCE AND RESPECT towards people in future, particularly new members, who may not share the same opinions as the assembled 'cognoscenti', and reducing the propensity of the former to ridicule and humiliate people they disagree with?
Might that change in those guilty of such behaviour also aid good relations and contribute towards the future success of Wigwam??
I think there's a danger here of the attitude prevailing that 'Wigwam is what it is, so deal with it', and brushing things under the carpet (which I feel if not properly addressed will return to haunt WW in future), rather than using this opportunity constructively to address and attempt to fix some of the problems which caused the unfortunate recent events in the first place!!
There - that was my turn to use a couple of exclamation marks.... :eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
In my view Marco the language "problem" is the real distraction from the core issues affecting the WW (of old). I seem to recall the AUP mentioning that swearing is fine is used in a humourous context and a sprinkling of "F" words during a rant can be very funny and entertaining - when used in moderation of course, so it isn't the use of swear words per se that is the issue. It is when we move on to the "C" word which is universally known that women find offensive and when that is directed at another person in a thread, even though they may know each other socially, is doubly more offensive on an open public forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
No, the core issue as far as I can tell is those vociferous vocal few that DOMINATE the entire forum with their dogmatic points of view and accept no other, belittling those that do in a demeaning and humiliating manner, which then progresses on to personal insults. If the mods have not noticed this going on, then in all honesty they need a fresh moderation team with teeth to stamp it out. There are many good folks on WW too, but I say that they are too scared or too apathetic to put their heads above the parapet and if they have notified the mods of these practices nothing ever gets done about it.
It can say whatever figure it likes at the bottom of the page in TOTAL numbers of members on any forum, but it is the total number of active users that keep a forum ticking and when that contains mostly people that dominate the entire forum and by their actions are excluding other members from freely participating, it's on the cards it will follow in the tracks of other notable forums now demised.
Well, with 23 pages on the subject here so far, it seems some folk are bothered by the 'demise'.
The 'language' bit (and aggro attitudes) are a bit akin to 'road rage'; a modern phenomenon that seems to indicate a deterioration in respect for ones fellows.
Must be the food additives, Microwaves, whatever?
We need Faraday cages maybe, to cool our heads!
Now; where's that reference to Helmholtz (?) resonances.....?
Road crashes always attract rubberneckers who want to watch and tut-tut amongst themselves. Or in this case a suicide jumper on the overpass. Will he do it? - wont he do it? - oh the excitement! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hornucopia
People, quite rightly, have different opinions regarding WW. These opinions are based on personal experience, and each of us have had vastly different experiences in life which shape our beliefs and opinions.
Rather than re-iterating one's own opinions, perhaps it's time for those people who enjoy the ways of the wam do so, and for those who don't, to enjoy their time elsewhere.
This is, after all, the crux of both free will and acceptance, no one is right/wrong, it's all subjective :¬)
Hi Frank,
You've made some good points.
Yes, but it's only "funny and entertaining" to those who appreciate the humour! How can you accurately predict what a complete stranger finds funny or not?Quote:
In my view Marco the language "problem" is the real distraction from the core issues affecting the WW (of old). I seem to recall the AUP mentioning that swearing is fine is used in a humourous context and a sprinkling of "F" words during a rant can be very funny and entertaining...
It's a bit like putting an audience of 'George & Mildred' fans in front of Roy Chubby Brown, and saying "laugh you bastards or f*ck off!!" :eyebrows:
Now don't get me wrong, I'm far from being a shrinking violet, and can dish it out with the best of them (as those who know me well will know!), but if an audio forum is to genuinely cater for the widest section of the audio community as possible, and prosper in the long term, then there must exist a certain standard of decency and behaviour amongst its members, otherwise it simply becomes a clique for the few who enjoy using and reading invective.
So the question that begs to be asked is, does James see Wigwam as a genuinely tolerant and all-embracing community of different personalities and mindsets, or simply a gang hut for a selected few who enjoy participating in endless slag-fests and having an intolerance towards viewpoints which don't conform to the beliefs of the owner, his fellow moderators, or the forum 'clique'?
If it's the latter, then that's cool, WW simply becomes a gathering place for a group of lads who enjoy what it's about (like TXN, for example, only bigger), rather than a place where everyone who behaves within the legal requirements of the site and a certain code of decency, is welcome. But James has to decide, because realistically he can't have both....
Yep, in my view, there is never an acceptable reason to use the 'C' word on a public forum - end of.Quote:
It is when we move on to the "C" word which is universally known that women find offensive and when that is directed at another person in a thread, even though they may know each other socially, is doubly more offensive on an open public forum.
I do sympathise with that view, but let's try and concentrate on the positives, and offer our opinions on how to fix the problems, rather than on the problems themselves. I know that James will be reading this thread and so perhaps will take on board any suggestions which he feels have merit.Quote:
No, the core issue as far as I can tell is those vociferous vocal few that DOMINATE the entire forum with their dogmatic points of view and accept no other, belittling those that do in a demeaning and humiliating manner, which then progresses on to personal insults. If the mods have not noticed this going on, then in all honesty they need a fresh moderation team with teeth to stamp it out.
I agree, and for me, that's the big problem.Quote:
There are many good folks on WW too, but I say that they are too scared or too apathetic to put their heads above the parapet and if they have notified the mods of these practices nothing ever gets done about it.
If you continually ignore (or don't deal effectively) with the legitimate concerns of a significant section of your membership, then eventually all you're left with are the collective sensibilities of a select few, and thus a clique is created.
And when that becomes the perception the outside world has of your forum or community, the genuine growth and success of the forum is stifled to the point of strangulation......
I also think that it's damaging for a forum when people use it almost exclusively as their own personal therapy centre, to rid themselves of, or escape from, their demons or frustrations in life, which I've seen take place time and time again (and not just on Wigwam), and when this is then allowed to occur regularly by those who run the site.
Not everyone wants to be subjected to that. Most people just want to read about hi-fi and music, discussed in a friendly, and mutually respectful, environment.
I think that James should look at that situation and decide whether it should be allowed to the same degree in future.
I totally agree with you on both points. The latter is something we try very hard to ensure doesn't happen here.Quote:
It can say whatever figure it likes at the bottom of the page in TOTAL numbers of members on any forum, but it is the total number of active users that keep a forum ticking and when that contains mostly people that dominate the entire forum and by their actions are excluding other members from freely participating, it's on the cards it will follow in the tracks of other notable forums now demised.
Marco.
Richard, mate, that's ad hominem, and something you yourself are very 'hot' on, so please practice what you preach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bunsen Honeydew
As I've already said, the subject of the thread is Wigwam, NOT the personality of James Palmer, so let's have no more of those comments, or they will simply be deleted -ta!
Marco.