I'am quite happy to admit to loving hifi and music as much as each other.
They are both great hobbies and i've made some really good friends along the way.
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I'am quite happy to admit to loving hifi and music as much as each other.
They are both great hobbies and i've made some really good friends along the way.
I agree.
Not so much with the friends bit though lol!
Biff.
I’ve had a bit of think Biff and the answer is no, I don’t agree. ;)
Firstly you’ve presupposed that composing music is an activity that requires emotion; it could equally be an intellectual exercise.
Then there is how music composition is done in real life for the majority of composers. Yep, we’ve prolly all seen films of some dishevelled and impoverished composer emotionally distraught widly penning away but exactly how realistic is that.
More realistic perhaps is the scenario of some person writing a few notes, playing them on an instrument, making a decision,writing a bit more, playing a bit etc etc. Difficult to see how some great outpouring of emotion can be sustained over a long period. Rather there is an intellectualised notion of what the finished article might sound like and perseverance, patience and time produces the result.
I don’t believe for example that Jimi Hendrix composed on paper so in his case at least it was a live performance, not scripted.
It just gets worse once the song is written. Off down the studio. Mike was on the piss the night before and can’t even see straight never mind play. The engineer takes a couple of tracks down from the drummer and bassist. Next day Mike is okay and does his bit. Day after they listen to whats been recorded and dont like it. Start again. Sally the singer gets the hump because the engineer tells her to stop swallowing the mike.
You must have been there....
At the end of the sessions the engineer lashes together the best samples breathes a bag full of effects over the mix and the product gets punted out.
Very hard to see how any emotions except frustration anger and impatience could be transferred to the zeros and ones.
Perhaps for some live recordings the possibility to transfer some emotional content might exist but in all probability its going to be the engineers.
So no, unless you believe in fairies there is no emotional content on a CD or whatever.
That doesn’t mean the music, if you’re lucky enough to get any, can’t engender emotions within the listener but those emotions are nothing to do with the media content and all to do with the listener, maybe old times, a lover, or some other life event. The point is the composer and recording process cant have any idea of what these emotions may be and differnt people may feel different emotions for a particular piece.
So, back to square one mate, the only way is by direct feedback and that means live.
Ahahahaha! Hopefully that was a joke? The most popular beatles stuff that was forced down my throat in school music lessons is the most predictable and boring music I've heard in my life...Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe
Not all of it is like that fortunately - the less popular stuff is good.
Almost by definition, anything that gains massive popularity has to be homogenous enough to appeal to a majority and I'm afraid the majority of people are not musical, are not poets, are not artists and their tastes reflect that. This isn't me being snobby, it's just logical - else we wouldn't have IKEA, DFS or magnolia with fake wood floors.
:lol: Where the hell did that emoticon come from??? That's the best!Quote:
Originally Posted by realysm42
I avoided forums some time last year because I was spending so much time typing or reading and NOT listening to music.Quote:
Originally Posted by chelsea
I suddenly found I had the time to really enjoy the music much MUCH more!
I like to talk a little about the hobby but not too much about specific equipment because I'm know what I like and my reasons for choosing this or that don't need discussion or approval.. I have an idea, hopefully follow it through and try it out. Might not be the best sound but at least I've tried it out for myself.
Unfortunately they both came from me :o Not that it matters or I know which one you are refering to :rfl:Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808
Perhaps I'll get back with something more relevant to the subject matter sooner rather than later :scratch: :eyebrows:
What was the OP about? Oh, yeah, being honest about why we're into the hobby.
I love sound.
"music this" "music that"..."blah blah blah". So what?
I love music too and I actually I love music so that I can enjoy music on ANY system! Yes, ANY system...
That's why I don't really understand (more to the point, I can't relate to) why people say it's all about "the music".
If you love the music, then why spend so much time and money choosing gear? Just buy the music, really get into collecting the music, listen to it all the time, go out to hear music, play in bands etc etc.
All the notes and rythyms are all still there on an average hifi and most of my friends who are more into music than I am (in terms of discovering bands and making it and playing gigs, going out, going to festivals, running record shops etc) are more than happy with iPods and Cambridge Audio systems or even playing everything from a basic 1210 into a 32 channel mixer stuck in the middle of their living room :lol: (a real situation some friends had).
People who are into this hifi hobby may well be into music but the reason they want the good system is because, surely, they are into sound. Sound as a sensual experience.
Sound is different to music. BUT music is portrayed better when the sound is better. Sound can still be terrible though and the music still great.
I can understand Welder's point. Music is a human construct. It's a result of human culture as opposed to just a sensation in the ear.
His take on what music is is very much more into the human interaction side. Perhaps it's just semantics; for him what others call music is just sound but his definition of music needs real involvement. I'm sure you'd get that definition say in a tribe, somewhere where recorded music doesn't exist.
So, I am into the sound mostly when it comes to hifi. For example I've just turned off the radio because Tim Key's Poetry show thing (Radio 4 23:00 Weds) is coming on. I want to listen to it later when I can use my snazzy audiophile headphones and listen not only to the comedy but to the odd acoustic they use and the contrast between the reverbed music while he reads the poem close mic'd in a dead room - a very nice effect that sounds great. For the same reasons I love the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy original radio series (it was written for radio and the sounds are all there on purpose) and things like the original Mighty Boosh radio series (again conceived for radio using silly acoustics etc as part of it).
Some things I've got into recently are from sound recordists as you can find on http://www.touchradio.org.uk/ including famous sound recordest Chris Watson (does sound for most big BBC nature programs like Frozen Planet) or more arty, non-musical music like Fennesz.
But, I also love design of equipment and build quality and out-there, breaking the mould designs by quiet unassuming brands of the past who's goals are only about good sound and so end up with products that are expensive because of the small production scale but then which probably go out of business due to lack of marketing and spin.
I also love the finding of unusual gear on the relatively cheap - you won't find me buying new or from a dealer at high price (from a dealer when the've under-priced IMO, of course!) - or by DIY-ing to get the best sound possible for low cost or to overcome the original cost constraints of commercial production.
I think the idea of the person constantly under the bonnet of their car you'll probably find is more of a driving enthusiast than the guy with the string backed gloves who goes out every weekend (linking back the the OP).
Anyone seen Two-lane Blacktop? It's a road movie basically pitting the rich guy with the fancy new sports car who has effectively just bought into a driving hobby on a whim, against the kids with no money who are dedicated to improving and tuning their hotrod to outperform the off the shelf products.. That to me is the difference between the hifi tinkerers (and secondhand box swappers) and the those who just spend.. The rich guy has the gear but the kids have the soul.
:clap:
Good lord, I think someone understands me.:eek:
Great film btw.
I don't think we disagree as much as we are looking at opposing sides of the same coin, on this particular topic, my friend. :) You and I have both left the back door open. And, perhaps, it should be left open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welder
Since music is very mathematical, it would be easy to compose just using mathematical principles. A simple knowledge of intervals and remembrance of what they sound like is really all you need. I myself have written pieces for piano (I'm not a very good pianist) by just sitting down with manuscript paper and having a go at it having no "real world" idea of how it would sound other than that the "theory" would most likely yield something that was harmonious rather than atonal. So, I concede it is quite possible to "produce" music without emotional involvement. However, likewise, playing live is not a guarantee of emotion, either. I've played many gigs where I just didn't care and have seen many other players do the same thing. Basically, we were just there to get paid. It was a job. No emotional involvement, whatsoever; just notes on paper; just notes in the air.
On the other hand, many writers, including myself, write out of... ummm... painful experiences. Take into account as well, that emotion doesn't have to mean breaking down crying or jumping for joy or flashing the horns. :hairmetal: Some prefer to think that real emotion is always this very extroverted type of display. For me, that's not a qualifier of true emotion. Emotions can also run deep; the kind of internalizing that propels someone to order their life or life choices in a certain manner; or in this case, compose a piece of music.
The songwriting process is not always synonymous with the recording process. And, yes, I agree wholeheartedly. The recording process, not to mention dealing with some musicians, producers, hangers-on and/or industry reps, can be an absolute bitch. I've had feelings of wanting to rip peoples heads off and piss down their neck; but... I digress. :lol: But, then, that's an emotion, too, isn't it, which may be reflected in an "angry" guitar solo. ;)
Wow, this really is one of those deep topics. We haven't even touched on the "learned or unlearned" response to hearing certain kinds of music. It reminds me of the old, "D minor is the saddest key", thing. :lol: How and why humans react to certain kinds of music the way they do is good fodder for a thesis and/or doctorate; not that either would really nail it down as the answer to that will always be distinctly attributable to the individual.
Correct me if I'm wrong; but, I think one of your points was the question of emotion as a tangible substance capable of being stored on a physical medium, whether it be CD, tape, vinyl or what have you. And I agree, no one has been successful, at least that I know of, at bottling an emotion and selling it in stores or auctioning it off on fleeceBay. For me to look at it that way would be flat earth thinking. It would require me to look at the issue of "conveying emotion through music" in a one dimensional, no gray area, binary way. It would require me to view music as something other than the transcendent thing I believe it to be. That is something I just can't do based on my belief that I am not just my physical body. There are things outside of my reasoning and rationale, things I don't understand; but, I am okay with my "ignorance", if you will. I can accept that there are ways things work that I may never understand, without denying their existence. The conveyance of feeling and emotion through music, recorded or live, is one such thing.
I do agree with this. I do not feel vinyl is anymore capable of being more emotive than a CD. I do not feel this piece of gear is more emotive than that piece of gear. I am only able to hear more distinctly, the details of a recording depending on the gear. My enjoyment, in terms of the listening experience, increases the more clearly I can hear the details of a recording. It doesn't make me like the song, piece of music, anymore or less. It just means what it means. Recordings played on my gear at home yield more detail than an AM radio broadcast on a cheap radio. No crime in the existence of either one. Vibration is vibration. It can be picked up by the sense of touch/feel. Music, as harmony and melody is perceived via hearing. If we could not hear, would we know what music was? So, the degree to which we can hear, largely determines whether we will be able to recognize vibrations/frequencies as "music". So, the question really isn't, "Do we need gear/hi-fi?" Of course, we do. The question is, "At what point for the individual, is gear good enough to get what we need from it to have the type of enjoyment we desire?" It's no different with instruments and/or the human singing voice. One can make music on a toy and for some that is good enough. For others, it takes Segovia playing a classical guitar built by an artisan of the trade. For some, Bob Dylan is good enough. For others, Leontyne Price.
I wouldn't doubt for a minute that many, honestly, became interested in hi-fi because they were/are music lovers first. I wouldn't doubt that their love of music drives them to want to hear it in all of it's glorious detail and complexity, something that can be best achieved with high quality playback gear. That's valid. It's also valid to be into the gear from a scientific perspective - the sheer art of reproducing recorded sound and not particularly a music lover. Also valid. I certainly don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. While not a requirement, they can be mated.