For cables, have a look at the Amazon Basics, Van Damme, Blue Jeans, Designacable or Mark Grant to name a few.
I make my own interconnects (out of OCC cable and decent plugs) and bought some OCC speaker cable from AliExpress
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For cables, have a look at the Amazon Basics, Van Damme, Blue Jeans, Designacable or Mark Grant to name a few.
I make my own interconnects (out of OCC cable and decent plugs) and bought some OCC speaker cable from AliExpress
There is a general rule of thumb that one should spend 10 - 20% of the total system cost on cables. This covers both the low level signal cables as well as the loudspeaker cables.
I am reluctant to name any specific brands, save to say that most cables used in the music business , such as those made by Van Damme, Klotz, or Mogami will not disappoint. If you are especially keen to use a British made cable then there is Mark Grant, and Chord, but the latter are expensive and would use up more of your budget than is necessary.
I use these (note- price is for one cable so it's £35 for a pair).
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155880758...r=456269744111
If you want a run longer than about 20 foot I'd advise getting a thicker cable (12 AWG or more) or you might get some small losses from high resistance.
Hello again.
I wanted to share a bit of positive news, and also thank everyone who's steered me this far.
Following the advice I've received so far, I've gone and done something about it. I've booked a demo at Richer Sounds in Belfast for this coming Sunday morning.
I spoke to a chap called George on the phone I believe he's a senior sales manager there. What a difference from my last retail experience. He listened properly, asked about my room (5x4m, bare floors, the lot), my taste (warm, engaging, not clinical), and my budget (£3-4k). Didn't rush me. Didn't sigh when I mentioned the figure. Actually seemed interested.
I sent over all my details room dimensions, listening preferences, the shortlist you've all helped me put together. I asked him to propose two different complete systems within budget, so I can compare approaches. He said he'd have them set up and waiting.
So Sunday morning, I'll be sitting in a demo room, finally hearing some actual music through actual speakers. It feels like the first real step toward falling back in love with this hobby.
And here's the best part: I'm turning it into a little getaway. I'm heading over to Belfast on Saturday afternoon, checking into a hotel, and having a proper night out a good meal, a few pints, maybe some live music if I can find it. Then Sunday morning, fresh ears and a clear head, off to Richer Sounds.
I'm trying not to put too much pressure on myself. I know I won't buy on the spot. But I'm hoping to come away with a clear sense of what works for me not just what looks good on paper.
If anyone has tips for Belfast (restaurants, pubs, or things to avoid), I'm all ears. And if anyone's had experience with George at Richer Sounds Belfast, I'd love to hear it so far, he seems like a rare gem.
Wish me luck. And thanks again for all the hand-holding so far.
Alistair
I've no doubt George at RS will look after you, just as he and his colleagues are looked after by his boss. Have a read of this:
http://https://www.eachperson.com/bl...oyee-ownership
Good idea, making your visit part of a weekend away, just don't be too hungover on the Sunday morning :)
Good luck for the demo, Alistair.
The link isn't working for me, Steve, but Richer Sounds and specifically Julian Richer (now "retired" I believe) is one of my business idols (his book "The Richer Way" originally released in 1996 is still the best "business" book I have ever read. The fact that they are virtually the "last man standing" in the world of national hi-fi chains is testament to his ethos, and I am sure there are many "Georges" around the branches. I have bought stuff from them over the years, including the Triangle powered speakers I use most of the time earlier this year and they have always been super helpful.
Yes Alex, the link I put in was about Julian Richer and what he had done for his employees, which I'm sure goes a long way to explaining why visiting his stores is such a positive experience. Other retail chains, regardless of whatever products they sell, should consider operating this way :)
Alistair,
Cables
1. They need to be of a sufficient length.
2. Dont believe the hype or bullshit.
3. They need to be able to conduct an electrical current
2mm Solid core electrical cable from Wickes can produce you some very nice power and speaker cables. I use silver, but that's just my quirk.
Cables are, to a greater or lesser extent, a 'belief' thing. The 10% rule seems normal, but I spend quite a bit more than that.
One thing I did notice though, was that earthing, and a consistent earthing strategy is pretty important. So if you're buying cables, I'd strongly suggest buying them all from one manufacturer. My current place was once within line of sight of one of the far-field monitor radar systems for Heathrow airport, until it was decommissioned a few years ago (the radar, not my home!). My cable selection was therefore largely based upon those which had effective screening and earthing in a pretty harsh environment - the effects weren't subtle and several manufacturers I had tried plainly didn't know what they were doing.
Steph
I'm reminded of what the late Peter Walker of Quad had to say about speaker cables:
There are only two things that matter: the first is that they are long enough to reach between the amplifier and the speakers; the second ideally is that the colour of the cable insulation should match that of the carpet over which they run.
As you can tell Peter Walker was highly sceptical about all the hype and bullshit theory that surrounds a lot of audio cable marketing. But no matter, I'm sure Richer Sounds will offer some sensible suggestions.
Good luck for Sunday. :)
Morning all,
Well, it's happening. Tomorrow morning, I'll be in the demo room at Richer Sounds Belfast with George. The hotel is booked, I'm heading over this afternoon, and I've got a night out lined up first. Feeling properly excited and a little nervous, if I'm honest.
George has been brilliant. We had another good chat on the phone yesterday, and together we settled on a shortlist to audition. He's going to have two or three combinations ready for me, mixing and matching within my £3-4k budget.
Here's what we'll be listening to:
Streamers:
Argon Audio Stream 2 MK3
WiiM Pro Plus
Amplifiers:
Audiolab 7000A
Cambridge Audio EXA100
Speakers:
Monitor Audio Silver 100 7G
Wharfedale Super Linton
KEF LS50 Meta
The plan is to try a few different pairings probably start with the WiiM into the Audiolab with the KEFs, then swap in the Cambridge, then try the Wharfedales, etc. George said we can take as long as I need, which is a relief.
I'm particularly curious to hear the Super Lintons. They're big, I know, but everything I've read says they have that warm, engaging, slightly forgiving character I've been after. The Monitor Audios seem to get rave reviews for punch and dynamics. And the KEFs are the modern classic I feel I should try, even if I worry they might be too clinical for me.
The Argon streamer is a bit of an unknown it seems to be well regarded in European forums but less talked about here. George rates it highly for the money, so I trust him.
Although cables didn't come up in our conversation so far, I'm looking forward to seeing what they use and recommend...
Anyway, I'll report back tomorrow evening with impressions which combination made me smile, which one fell flat, and whether I walked out with a receipt or just a lot of thinking to do.
Thanks again to everyone who's offered advice along the way. It's genuinely helped me get to this point with some confidence.
Wish me luck and if you see a retirement age man wandering around Belfast tonight looking slightly lost, that'll be me.
Alistair
All the best with it, have a good time!
Best of luck Alistair, I'm sure you won't need it :)
Wishing you an entertaining, informative and successful weekend Alistair. We're all on tenterhooks here to learn how you get on. An exciting time. :)
I honestly hope that you have a great time, learn some new stuff and hopefully have a new system.
Enjoy the experience. George seems to have plenty of experience (based on the RS website) so I think you will be in good hands.
I had my doubts about the first dealer you contacted, as they seem to deal mainly in high end gear, but I think RS will certainly be a completely different experience.
Enjoy it. Don't be afraid to ask questions and try different gear to the stuff that has already been prepared.
Lots of great gear missing from that list.
Evening all,
I'm back from Belfast, ears still ringing (in a good way), and I wanted to share how the demo went partly because I know some of you were following along, and partly because it might help someone else in a similar position.
First, the night out was excellent. A few pints in the Cathedral Quarter, a very good steak, and a solid night's sleep. Walked into Richer Sounds on Sunday morning feeling relaxed and ready.
George was every bit as good as he sounded on the phone. He had the systems set up in the demo room, exactly as promised. No pressure, no jargon, no "you really need to spend more." Just a genuine enthusiast who let me listen, swap things around, and listen again.
We ran through a few combinations from the shortlist I posted earlier. I tried the KEF LS50 Metas with the Cambridge amp too clinical for my taste, especially in that bare-ish room. The Monitor Audio Silver 100s were punchy and fun, but a bit too forward on rock vocals. The Audiolab 7000A was perfectly fine, but the Cambridge just had more soul.
And then we got to the combination that a couple of you had recommended in my earlier threads: the Wharfedale Super Lintons. George paired them with the Cambridge Audio EXA100 and fed the signal from a WiiM Pro Plus. From the first track, I understood what the fuss was about. Nina Simone's voice had weight and presence. John Bonham's kick drum had physicality without overwhelming the room. Joni Mitchell's guitar harmonics just hung in the air beautifully.
George smiled and said he thought this combination would match my room superbly the Lintons' warmth and the Cambridge's control working together in a 5x4m space. It certainly sounded that way in the demo room.
So where am I now? I didn't buy on the spot. George was perfectly understanding no hard sell whatsoever. I've come away with some excellent listening notes and a clear front‑runner, but I want to do a bit more research and maybe hear one or two other combinations before I commit. The Wharfedale/Cambridge pairing is definitely the one to beat, but I'd like to sleep on it and perhaps compare against a NAD C389 or a Naim setup if I can find one locally.
One quick practical note: I asked George about speaker cables knowing full well what a can of worms that is. He said for a system at this level, decent OFC speaker cable (around £3-5 per metre) is all you need. He recommended Fisual Super Pearl or Cambridge Audio's own SYMPHONY 200 nothing fancy, just well-made and sensible.
A huge thank you to everyone who offered advice along the way especially those who pushed the Wharfedales. You gave me a fantastic reference point. And if anyone's considering a demo at Richer Sounds Belfast, ask for George. He's a rare find.
Now I just need to buy a rug. And make a decision.
Alistair
You have made a good start there Alistair. Would you be able to listen to a NAD or Naim set-up at Richers? Like your choice of demo music.
Glad the day went well for you :) Not surprised to hear that the Lintons did it for you, and I reckon your 4x5M space would be more than big enough for them.
No idea what you'll make of Naim amps, though I did hear their Statement amp powering some Focal Scalas last year, and that was quite nice. And at close to £200,000 a total bargain :)
Assuming you're happy with the Lintons/WiiM, I would recommend having a chat with Hifi Dave regarding amplifier choices. I'd expect him to have some models as capable as, if not more capable than any amps you heard this morning.
It sounds like you had a good day. I thought Richer Sounds also stocked NAD?
Personally, I am not a fan of Naim, but I wish you the best of luck on your amplifier search.
It does sound like you have a good contender on the list though.
Morning Kevin.
Unfortunately, RS Belfast do not supply NAD equipment. I guess the almost semi-autonomous nature of their branch management allows them to choose their ranges to suit the locale?
With the knowledge gained from yesterday, and a little confidence, I'm tempted to go back to Cloney, who are a NAD stockist, and audition some of their equipment, for research purposes, at least.
Alistair
Morning all,
Just a short one. I've been sitting here since yesterday's demo, and I'm finding myself oddly frustrated.
Not with RS they were brilliant. Not with the kit the Wharfedale/Cambridge pairing sounded genuinely lovely. And not with any of you, who've been nothing but helpful.
It's me. I'm impatient.
I went into that demo hoping for a moment of absolute certainty. The clouds parting. A voice from above saying "this is your system, Alistair." Instead, I came away with... more information. More comparisons to make. More research to do.
I know that's the sensible way to do this. I know a £4k decision shouldn't be rushed. I know I said I wouldn't buy on the spot. But now I'm back in my quiet house with no music and a room still full of boxes from the move, and I just want it done.
The Wharfedales are still the front-runner. But I keep wondering: what if I'd heard them with a Naim amp? What if I'd tried floorstanders instead? What if, what if, what if.
Anyway. No real question here. Just needed to vent. I'm sure I'll settle down in a day or two and make a sensible decision.
Thanks for listening.
Alistair
Sounds normal to me.
It's a hobby. Obsessing on it is natural and very hard to get away from. But that's all part of the fun.
You will buy something, and you will change it at some stage.
It's the law;)
Don't get too hung up on the amplifier thing. High fidelity solid state amps don't have a 'sound signature' regardless of what you might read.
The Naim won't be any different to the Cambridge amp, it just costs more. You can't listen to an amp without hooking it up to some speakers, and the speakers and the room acoustic will dominate what you hear. It's a pointless exercise.
Lots of other speakers you can audition within your budget, doing that makes more sense as even if you still decide to go for the Lintons you'll not be left thinking 'maybe I could have got something better for the money.'
One tip I will give you - concentrate on listening for what the system does badly, not what it does well. Listen for problems. Over the long term it's the flaws that will irritate you.
The issue with going to Cloney is that they don't stock Wharfdale?
I think I'm trapped in a loop...,
Just when I thought I was getting closer to a decision, I've gone and thrown a spanner in my own works.
I spent this morning reading reviews of the NAD C 399 partly because someone mentioned it in another forum, partly because I have too much time on my hands and apparently enjoy torturing myself.
And now I can't stop wondering.
The reviews are glowing. The built-in BluOS streaming (no separate streamer needed). The Dirac Live room correction (which sounds perfect for my bare-floored, awkward new-build room). The power. The flexibility. Everyone talks about it being warm, musical, engaging exactly what I said I wanted.
So now I'm sitting here thinking: what if I paired the NAD C 399 with the Wharfedale Super Lintons instead of the Cambridge EXA100?
Would the Dirac sort out my room issues better than a rug and some trial and error? Would the NAD's warmth play nicely with the Lintons' warmth, or would it be too much of a good thing? Would I even need a separate streamer, or does the BluOS make the WiiM redundant?
I don't know. And that's the problem.
The Cambridge sounded genuinely great in the demo. I had no complaints. But now I'm second-guessing everything. What if the NAD is better? What if I buy the Cambridge and spend the next five years wondering?
I know the sensible answer is: go listen to the NAD. But that means another demo, another trip, more time. And I'm impatient, as I mentioned yesterday.
So here I am, back where I started, but now with an extra amplifier on my mental shortlist and a fresh layer of confusion.
Has anyone here heard the NAD C 399 with Wharfedale Lintons (or similar)? Does Dirac Live actually deliver on its promise in a real room, or is it another box-ticking feature?
Any wisdom or sympathy gratefully received.
Alistair
I played with DIRAC quite a while ago now.
I just think the concept is flawed.
When I play my acoustic guitar, do I need to room correct it?
No is the answer. It sounds like it does in the room I play it in.
Same applies to plonking a band in any room.
It also sounds odd to my ears.
Have you contacted HiFi Hut in Dublin?
Dirac is a useful feature to have for fixing low frequency issues like bass boom but you'll still need to tweak it manually (letting it just auto-correct rarely works out because we don't hear the way a microphone does) and you'll still need a rug and other soft furnishings :).
Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't contacted HiFi Hut yet but I've been doing a further bit of homework on the Dublin scene.
Here's my rough take on the main players in the Dublin area, based on what I've heard (and experienced firsthand):
HiFi Hut I've heard good things, though I haven't visited myself. They stock Rega, Naim, Spendor, and a few others. People say they're knowledgeable and patient with mid-budget customers. I'd put them at the top of my list to try next.
Cloney Audio I posted about my disappointing experience there a while back. Senior salesman seemed to lose interest when he heard my budget, and I got fobbed off to a Saturday lad who couldn't answer basic questions. Maybe I caught them on a bad day, but first impressions matter. Currently near the bottom of my list.
The Listening Suite I think they're mostly high-end (Primare, Moon, Audiovector, etc.) probably out of my budget and comfort zone. I've not contacted them.
So if I had to rank Dublin dealers based on what I know now, I'd say:
HiFi Hut (unproven but good reputation)
Cloney Audio (would only go back if absolutely necessary)
The Listening Suite (probably not for me)
I should probably give HiFi Hut a call. Have you dealt with them yourself? Any particular salesperson I should ask for?
Thanks again for the nudge.
Alistair
I can understand your impatience Alistair, I would be the same too. I am also retired, and I came to the realisation that each passing year forms an ever-increasing percentage of the time I have left :eek: so I'd just be getting on with it.
Personally I wouldn't be tempted by an amplifier with a built-in streamer, for the same reason I would never have bothered with a music centre or stack system, ie when something fails you're screwed. Having said that, you could still add on off board streamer if you wanted to.
I think the Dirac room correction will only do anything from about 500hz down, so it's likely your room would still need some treatment. But these are things you can play with once you get your new kit home :)
I have not used HiFi Hut. I found them through a Google whilst in a meeting today.
They seem well rated.
To be honest, my last interaction with a dealer was during COVID, so things were different back then.
I also live in the South of France, so they are a bit far away.
My recent gear has either been bought second hand, or I have made it myself.
My most recent purchase - a Primare Pre32 - was researched before buying using AI to help.
I am not disappointed, as it is a quality bit of kit.
Hey Alistair,
Welcome and thanks for sharing your journey with us.
Building a new hi-fi system takes time but is very rewarding when we get it right. No doubt that you will get there.
Only my first system was bought brand new (Arcam CD/Amp and Quad speakers), however I regretted not buying second hand or ex-demo as I would have had so much more quality gears for my money. I have done this since and have not regretted it! Unfortunately, most hifi equipments are like cars: they depreciate from the moment you left the shop.
As you have time, my suggestion would be to go and audition a system at twice your budget from the Listening Suite and compare with your reference/budget system. You could then source the items second hand or ex-demo. This may take a little longer but the reward will be worth it.
Just a thought
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[QUOTE=Berni217;1403464]Hey Alistair,
As you have time, my suggestion would be to go and audition a system at twice your budget from the Listening Suite and compare with your reference/budget system. You could then source the items second hand or ex-demo. This may take a little longer but the reward will be worth it.
/QUOTE]
This is a good idea for two reasons. firstly, yes you can get stuff a lot cheaper, secondly but more importantly you'll start to learn the lesson of deminishing returns and soon realise that cheaper can sometimes (and more than often than not) outperforms expensive twoddle. Remember hype is not your friend.
I would like to confirm my distrust of adaptive electronic room equalisation facilities such as DIRAK. I went through a similar trial using a Klark Technic 32-way 1/3 octave equaliser in a vain attempt to improve the low frequency response of my speakers. They are Quad 57s, which have a limited response below 40Hz; the bass is there but with limited 'weight'.
I found that I was fiddling with the sliders covering the bottom end each time I played a record or CD - each time it was different, and each time I wasn't satisfied with the sound. Worse of all I wasn't really enjoying listening to the record, so in the end I removed the equaliser from my system and got on with enjoying the records as before and accepting the low end limitation of my speakers.
Sometimes the less is more.
I also agree with Martin that you should listen to some more speakers, and make note of those parts of their sound reproduction that you dont like. Obviously the aim is to choose a speaker where the "likes" outweigh the "dislikes".
That's a really interesting thought – and honestly, not something I'd considered.
I suppose I've been thinking in very linear terms: set a budget, find the best new system within it, buy it, be done. The idea of auditioning at twice my budget and then hunting for second-hand bargains... it feels a bit like cheating, if I'm honest.
And that's where my unease comes in. I'd feel a little dishonest walking into The Listening Suite, letting them spend time with me, maybe even bringing in my own music, all while knowing I have no intention of buying new from them. They're running a business. They have bills to pay. I'm not sure I could look a salesman in the eye and ask for a proper demo if I was already planning to buy elsewhere.
Maybe that's naive. Maybe everyone does it. But it doesn't sit quite right with me.
The second-hand question is another layer. You're absolutely right about depreciation – and I've seen some beautiful ex-demo and used gear on forum classifieds at tempting prices. But I'm also a bit nervous. I've been out of the game so long that I wouldn't know what to look for – worn pots, dry capacitors, mismatched drivers, signs of abuse. And if something went wrong a month later, I'd have no comeback.
I know that's what the forum's "private sales" section is for – trusted members, honest descriptions. But as a newcomer, I don't have that trust built yet.
So I'm torn. Part of me loves the idea of getting, say, a £6-7k system for £3-4k. Part of me just wants a new box, a warranty, and a dealer I can call if something goes wrong.
I suppose I could split the difference – look at ex-demo from a reputable dealer. Still a discount, still some comeback.
Either way, thank you for the suggestion. It's made me think differently, even if I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try it.
Alistair
There is a school of thought in audio that the price tag is a spec - that the more expensive product must be better. This is rarely if ever true for electronic components and there are plenty of very expensive speakers that have very poor performance.
Your budget is easy enough to get outstanding sound quality as I think you already discovered on Sunday.
To an extent you are right. Specification depends on circuit design, but sound quality also depends on the quality of the components used. This can be especially true with the choice of capacitors and semiconductors, less so with resistors and pots. Another aspect to bear in mind is the longevity of the electronics and how reliable it will be.
I cannot see how my comments above can apply to speakers, so agree with you there.
I would also not feel comfortable going to a HiFi dealer to listen to a system with no intention of buying from them.
You have already heard good system at Richer Sounds, based on your shortlist.
If it was me, I would phone HiFi Hut, give them your room details, budget, preferences etc. and see what they come up with as a system.
They seem to stock Wharfdale, but they may have a speaker that you prefer, or a better amp than the Cambridge Audio.
Ask them if they can do a comparison with the Wharfdales and other speakers.
I would also be open with them about your visit to RS, as they may offer you a better deal if they can secure a sale.
Having said that, RS are roughly €500 cheaper for the speakers. :eek:
Not only that, RS have their "price promise", where if you find something you bought from them cheaper elsewhere within 14 days, they'll refund the difference to you.
We found this out last year when the telly we bought off them became £200 cheaper than in their "Black Friday" sale. A quick call to them, and within minutes the 200 quid was in my bank :) Now that's what I call service.
Hey Alistair,
I understand your feeling of not wasting the vendor's time. Please note that The Listening Suite has a number of ex-display/pre-owned amplifiers & speakers which could still be a good comparison to be made vs the system you auditioned at RS. Have a look on https://www.thelisteningsuite.ie/ex-display-pre-owned/.
Electronics are quite reliable these days so, if you do your homework, you can still source some fantastic kits for a fraction of the RRP price, which is still the best option I would go for IMHO.
They also have the JMR Bliss Jubilι and Magic Stands at 1,640 Eur. These are good French speakers too. https://www.thelisteningsuite.ie/jmr...special-offer/
HiFi+ review: https://hifiplus.com/articles/jmr-el...-bliss-jubile/
Morning all,
Apologies for the radio silence. I haven't fallen off the edge of the earth – nor have I bought anything. I've just been taking a bit of time to step back and let my head clear.
All the options, all the advice, all the second‑guessing... I realised I was getting nowhere fast. So I pressed pause.
In the meantime, I've been doing what I probably should have been doing all along: just listening to music. I've spent a couple of very enjoyable evenings in downtown Dublin, at two bars that seem to be built around good sound and good taste.
The Big Romance (https://thebigromance.ie) – A lovely little spot on Parnell Street. Dark, intimate, very deliberately curated playlists. They play everything from jazz to classic soul to leftfield electronic, always at a sensible volume – you can actually talk, but the music still gets under your skin. Their cocktail list is excellent too. Felt like listening to a favourite uncle's record collection, if that uncle had impeccable taste.
Fidelity (https://fidelitybar.ie) – Down on Abbey Street, a bit more of a hi-fi bar vibe. They've got a proper soundsystem (I didn't quiz them on the components, but it sounded right), and they spin a lot of hip-hop, funk, and house. Busier, louder, but still warm and engaging. I sat at the back and just soaked it in. Reminded me that music doesn't need to be analysed – just felt.
Neither place cares about your amplifier's damping factor. Neither place judges your budget. Both places just love music. It's been a nice reminder that the whole point of this is the music, not the gear.
I'm slowly coming back to the decision‑making table with a clearer head. Not there yet, but getting closer.
Thanks for sticking with me.
Alistair
A wise decision, in my opinion.
You need to live with the system, so there is no point rushing it.
For me it is all about the music, with a compromise that the system has to fit in my man cave, and a wife who is not really interested in music.
You have a benchmark from your first dealer visit, so you just need to see if anything comes close to what you heard, or is capable of dragging you deeper into the music.