I'd still stick a cap across the resistors on the adjust pin of the onboard regulator.
Its a supply for the audio controller and the input bias so best to keep it clean
Printable View
I'd still stick a cap across the resistors on the adjust pin of the onboard regulator.
Its a supply for the audio controller and the input bias so best to keep it clean
This one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Enthusiast...item1c11bd1026
And some other variations
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIPATH-digita...item483a617ce3
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/90W-90W-TA2022...item2eaca786ed
Yes thanks Leo.Reason I pointed to that is because this Hlly amp uses the same chip,and while on it's own the amp is good,used with my WAD Pre 2 it is excellent,so this board with a valve input stage might be very good.
No probs Ali, I'm even more confused which to try now :lol:
Certainly no shortage of options with these Tripath amps, I've already got a pair of Hypex UCD's but still very tempted to try one of these Tripath's to fiddle with
Well I like this TA 2022 chip.Sounds very valve-like to me,with very deep and tight bass.Have you tried the Hypex units? What do you think?
Hi Covenant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
It is a Zalman ZM-NB47J (effectively a cooler for the Northbridge chip on a motherboard), can be had for £5.75 on Amazon.
If you are feeling brave enough, try replacing the inductors (Wuerth 4.7uH XXL types about 9A if I remember correctly. Available at Farnell) when you have removed the inductor. It was easier than I thought it would be. Here are my tips for doing that:
a) I used a relatively cheap, but temperature controlled iron
b) I removed the heatsink before replacing them, giving better soldering access.
c) I took on Sendler's advice about heating one side of the inductor (until the solder liquefies) and prizing it up with a small flat bladed screw driver
d) After prizing it up, completed the extraction by holding the top of the inductor with a pair of long nose pliers, heating the other side until it liquefies and it should easily pull off.
e) Tinned the new inductor solder pads
f) Tinned the board solder pads
g) Soldered while making sure the solder liquefies. May take a couple of goes
h) Measured the resistance between the pads
Page 139 of the diyaudio.com thread also shows a good diagram (you need to be logged in to see it) detailing how to improve the input stage.
Andrew
Just missed a Sonic Impact on eBay UK yesterday. Maybe though, not worth going that way if the board you mention is so much better, though doesn't it require just a little extra expertise - e.g to fit a volume control, and maybe put it in a box? Perhaps it could be kept out of the box as a work of art - perhaps on a board with some perspex above it. Not sure how well that'd go down. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jtay
Are the really cheap ones you see on eBay no good at all, or would I get a feel for these Tripath things if I bought one? There are even some (Lepai) ones for under £20, and there are loads for about £20 plus around £10 shipping - though not sure how reliable ordering from China is. I really would just like to hear one first, and then decide how much to spend. Are there any Tripath designs sold in regular hi-fi shops by well known makes (e.g embodied in currently available amps costing betwen £80-£500), in which case I could maybe arrange an audition? Buying a more expensive one, such as the HLLY 90 or a Bantam or making up one as suggested are all options, but I've still no idea what I'd be buying into. That's why I wanted to bid on the Sonic Impluse as I figured I could flog it on again if I didn't like it.
I'm still somewhat intrigued by the technology. The patents on the chips suggest that the design doesn't just use simple Class D techniques. For a start, PWM is I think replaced by PDM (Pulse Density Modulation), but it has occurred to me that there could be multiple digital signal paths in the chip, and slightly more complex switching at the power end than a really simple design would suggest. Also I need to swat up even on Class D further, as I don't know if they operate in positive and negative going directions, or simply with one polarity and then a DC offset adjustment (which could be a pain, as it might be signal dependent). There could be some quite ingenious techniques used to make these things work and deliver the higher quality claimed in these T-amp variants.
Leo,found this on ebay-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...#ht_6321wt_960
Could be used with any tripath amp.
Not only that, but I discovered I didn't really know how switching power supplies work. I've since found out more and even about buck and boost circuits, and this poster might help a bit - http://focus.ti.com/lit/sg/sluw001d/sluw001d.pdf There's a lot more to power supply design than I'd thought, and rather a lot of design variants.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave2010
When I stopped to think about it, I was surprised to think that the rather small mobile phone chargers work using this kind of technology - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply Maybe I'll dismantle a spare one to see what's inside!
Here is another fairly detailed web site - http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/327
The pages at How Stuff Works are I think, rather simpler and don't really go into much detail.
From the website -Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
Funny things these people get up to! :)Quote:
10.The board have debuggered to the best state, and re-check before shipping, please rest assured to use.
Hi Ali,Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Sorry I missed this.
I've had the Hypex's a few years now run as mono's , PSU's using MBR20200discrete rectifiers, 4-pole T-net caps , I've done some mods to the amp modules etc.
The sound isn't bad really, detailed and controlled but not as lifelike as I'd like, I want something which is going to be a step up rather than sideways move if possible. Theres obviously other options like a valve amp or some other decent solid state amp to try, dunno :)
Cheers Leo,they seem to get a lot of good comments on diyaudio,but sounds like they're not as good as they are made out to be.Maybe try one of those valve buffers on the front end?
I think its more like I expected too much from them tbh :o can be quite a picky scroat at timesQuote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
I've been running them balanced input directly from the modified Buffalo32 dac using its volumite to control the vol, probably the best I've heard them so far.
Could probably try valve buffers , I guess this may just add flavour? ideally I'd just like to try a real good kick arse diy amp, something new but better rather than different :lol:
JerryI've noted that some articles about this or very similar boards have a heatsink. Possibly there've been design changes. I've emailed the suppliers to ask about this. Looking at one of the articles (which had a heatsink) it seems it does get a bit hot, so a design with a fan would probably switch on. I did ask whether the fan would be on most of the time, which might not matter so much if it only came on under high loads. I'd be interested to know what you find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
Dave I believe the fan is on all the time and some reports stated that it can induce currents in the output and pollute the 5v line. Also I don't like the idea of something vibrating and causing microphony (although SMDs are less susceptible).
The stock cooling design choice has changed over time. It's now a small silver heatsink with fan attached to the 5v regulator (hence always on). Old designs had the heatsink glued and required a hot-air gun or hairdryer to melt it and safely remove - nowadays it is NOT glued in place and hence much easier to replace.
Andrew
Well as I've said before,this Hlly amp is good on it's own,but is made excellent by using it with my Pre 2.Just MHO though!Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
I know Dave Hewitt has built a Hypex amp.Have you noticed an improvement with a valve pre Dave?
Thanks Ali, the other option is that valve output stage for the Sabre dac:eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Yes indeed,I'm thinking about that myself.I heard Nick's,and loved it.
He doesn't have the dac I listened to,but he's gong to put something similar together for Owston,so I'll get a chance to hear it with the Hlly and the Touch.
I just had an email about a new version of the Bantam Gold from the people at Temple Audio. Pity they've raised the price a bit, though try to soften the blow by offering a cable as a "freebie" :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
id spotted that... be interesting to see how good it is over the original..
Yes indeed,and also against the Hlly.
Indeed!
Have you seen all the amps they do Ali ... I wonder if any of the other ones are much cop
http://www.hllyelectronics.com/index.php?cPath=21
Yes I've had a look.They mentioned on diyaudio that they have a new amp coming out that will only be sold through their website.Supposed to be their best yet,but then they would say that!
Ali
Did I miss something else too? When you first mentioned the HLLY 90 I thought it was available for under £100, but since then the prices have gone up quite a lot - or so I think. Maybe I got the prices wrong in the first place?
At the current prices, the Bantam units don't seem to compare too badly, though whether it's worth going for Gold I don't know, as it's around twice the price of the base model. I asked the company how it worked and what it's like. They say they moved on from the basic Tripath designs, and the new ones are much better, but then, as you say, they would say that.
Have many round here tried the Bantams, gold plated or otherwise?
It's the T amp 20 that is about 70 quid I think,the 90 is 158 delivered.As for the Bantams,as I say,I've not heard any,be interesting to compare.I reckon they'll probably be pretty good.
Hi Covenant,Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
I have just published my review of the Sure 2x100W board, with some mixed feelings. See here http://www.hifiwatcher.com/?p=302
Would be interested to read your thoughts as well.
Andrew
I am sorely tempted to lay down 50 notes on the Topping TP21, which uses the TA2021 chip. I think this could make a usefull little amp to run the PC speakers. I find the internal view exceptionally appealing.
http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200909/17...355_293760.jpg
For those looking for a nice TA2022 amp, the Topping TP60 seems to be a viable and less costly (at least where I live) alternative to the HLLY 90. After over 100 hours of burn in, the sound has become quite impressive, as opposed to just "great value for the money". I'm still not sure whether it sounds like a good valve amp, but it certainly has some qualities of one, such as spaciousness and good midrange.
Here's a picture of its innards:
http://www.tpdz.net/tpupfile/201055152027.jpg
I've been thinking about upgrading the already-decent components to something fancier, as well as removing the volume control after getting my Volumite. Open to opinions and advices!
Again, big thanks to Ali and John for recommending the HLLY 90. I would've never taken T-AMPs seriously if not for them!
Glad you like it Alex.They are rather good are they not? As you say,they do have some of the qualities of a valve amp.I found the Hlly sounded much better fed from my valve preamp,so you may find the same with the Topping.
Hi Ali,
Actually, I WILL be using a valve preamp with mine... soon. However, instead of adding a valve preamp into the system, I plan on "transforming" my Buffalo DAC into one (I need to stop stealing Leo's ideas)! I may replace the Sowters in Nick's schematic with Lundahl LL1689s though, as I really like the results of my current LL1527 "passive output stage" setup.
Cheers,
Sounds good,let us know how you get on.
I'm hoping to complete the project by the end of next month, as I probably won't even receive my Buffalo II+Volumite until mid September. I guess I could start on the valve output stage first... Either way, I'll keep you posted.
Where exactly do you live? Perhaps you could edit it into your profile :)Quote:
Originally Posted by squeezethatbuffalo
(hint: it's not optional)
Oh, thanks for reminding me. Done. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by technobear
Everyone will now be Googling 'Taichung City' :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by squeezethatbuffalo
Small update on the Topping TP60, I just bypassed the ALPS pot, and the results were rather surprising.
I fully expected a very good digital volume control - like the Volumite - to better the ALPS, but it turned out that even the one on SBT sounded superior to me. :mental:
I think the volume control is a performance bottleneck for these integrated T-AMPs. I guess that's what Ali's been trying to tell us all along!
The volume pot is a bottleneck on most amplifiers ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by squeezethatbuffalo
I changed the Alps Blue on my Croft for a Glasshouse Seiden/Takman Metal Film stepped attenuator. This gave a large increase in transparency and microdetail with a commensurately large decrease in noise.
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/comp...tiometers.html
I don't deny that ;)
I found it "surprising" because I normally prefer analog volume control over the SBT's digital one. Then again, it shouldn't surprise me at all, since the pot on the TP60 HAS to be a low quality one due to the low price tag.
Unfortunately, the better pots just won't fit in the small case. So yea, a good pre seems like the best solution. Looks like I'm rediscovering the wheel! :lol:
Yes agreed,I'd take the pot out if you're going to keep the amp.
Hi Ali,
Do you still have your Hlly TAMP-90? What mods have you done to your Hlly, if any?
I've done a few to my TP60 lately, and I'm looking for new ideas.
Thanks in advance!
Hi Alex,
No,I sold it to another forum member.I didn't do any mods as I liked the sound.What mods have you done to yours?
Hi Ali,
As you already know, I removed the volume pot in favor of digital volume control.
Remember our short discussion about replace the input capacitors with more "exotic" ones? Well, that didn't happen due to space constraints. The only Mundorf that fits is the 0.33uf variety. Not good.
Fortunately, I found a great alternative - the MKP2000.
http://ucccap.myweb.hinet.net/pics/2KP4u7J100.jpg
They aren't the best caps around, but pretty damn close when VFM is factored in. These caps are balanced, neutral, and sound clean without being analytical. I like the "MKP2000" because they can be used practically everywhere, and it's actually OKAY do so without adding too much color or breaking the bank.
I feel that the MKP2000s are significantly better than the stock Epcos MKPs as input capacitors (even without any burn in). The vocals are much improved, and the low end sounds more "solid" than stock.
After listening to the modded amp for a while, I couldn't help but wonder what other mods can be done (with the absence of the schematic). So I opened up the amp again and took a careful look. To my dismay, the chassis wires and internal connectors seemed rather shoddy. Definitely room for improvement. I removed the stock wires and connectors, and soldered in Mundorf 1.5mm silver/gold (PCB to speaker terminal) and Belden silver plated copper wires (input 1 RCA jacks to PCB).
The sonic improvement was significant, even more so than the input capacitor mod. :eek: The sound of my TP60 has become noticeably more musical, tonally balanced, and detailed. Not what I expected, but I like pleasant surprises!
I think the TP60 is a great VFM amp in stock form, and a serious contender as a main system amplifier after eliminating its biggest weaknesses.
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6562/img0049d.jpg
Sounds a worthwhile mod.How about swapping the rectifier bridge for some hexfreds? Not sure how much of an improvement it'll be,but worth a try given the low cost I'd say.
Thanks for the suggestion Ali.
I'll let my amp burn in for a while before I try out any new mods though. I want to be a bit more scientific this time ;)
Still waiting for the arrival of my BII and Legato, my fingers got itchy...
http://www.furutech.com/items/FI-03.jpg
Yep, I replaced the stock IEC inlet with a fancy rhodium plated Furutech. The picture shows only one side of it, but I'm too lazy to reopen the case, we all know what one looks like ;)
Initial impressions are rather favorable.
Cons: minor reduction in bass, slightly thinner and cooler sound.
Pros: better imaging, separation, slightly better dynamics, and deeper soundstage. Performance sounds a bit more "lively" than before. Interesting :)
Is the mod worth it? To my ears, yes. Some may feel reluctant to invest 1/5 of the retail price on a "cheapo" amp, but I think it's worth trying out.
little dot also makes Class T amps.
Cool,nice one Alex.Quote:
Originally Posted by squeezethatbuffalo
I never knew! How does it sound? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by goraman
Thanks Ali!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
I know I'm not doing anything drastic or special here, but I have very little knowledge regarding T-Amps, so it's best to play safe. I'm hoping that the T60 gains enough popularity so that REAL modders will start threads like this to help out newbies like me :lol:
However, I'm not saying that the aforementioned mods aren't worthwhile. Quite the contrary. Though the quality of Chinese audio (and the electric components inside) have improved over the years, I found that the companies tend to cut costs by using low ("industrial" to be fair) quality accessories and wiring. Upgrading them with decent audiophile may bring noticeable improvement! At least that's what my ears think ;)
Oh, and I'm thinking about performing a well known yet somewhat controversial mod; bypassing rectifier diodes with small value (probably going to use MKP2000 0.01uf) capacitors. Has anyone tried it on an amp? What are your thoughts?