The ALLO Audio music steamer - Pic heavy review

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Originally Posted by mikeyb

My bass was a little light and recessed as well, but I SSH'd into the Pi and set the alsamixer to -4.50db which was I think must be near 100 on the scale as next notch up was into the red, as it was originally way down at the bottom of the scale, as soon as I did that, oh boy bass was back big time, made me jump lol

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Thanks for this - just been trying this out and changing the alsamixer setting 'Playback [dB gain:]' from -6.00 to 0.00 and the bass is back with a vengeance. Very nice - all sounding good. And I've still to try the KALI Reclocker in the system.

Interestingly (possibly) I've tried playing with the alsamixer setting 'PCM' which in my system was set to around '80' I think - increasing this to '87' or '88' has a similar effect to boosting the 'Playback [dB gain:]'. Not sure which is the correct/proper thing to do but may be worth experimenting with.

Either way enjoying what I'm listening to :)

Great to hear you guys are enjoying the system. :)

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Originally Posted by Emmings

Thanks for this - just been trying this out and changing the alsamixer setting 'Playback [dB gain:]' from -6.00 to 0.00 and the bass is back with a vengeance. Very nice - all sounding good. And I've still to try the KALI Reclocker in the system.

Interestingly (possibly) I've tried playing with the alsamixer setting 'PCM' which in my system was set to around '80' I think - increasing this to '87' or '88' has a similar effect to boosting the 'Playback [dB gain:]'. Not sure which is the correct/proper thing to do but may be worth experimenting with.

Either way enjoying what I'm listening to :)

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good to hear!

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Originally Posted by Emmings

Here's my initial thoughts/feelings about this system/components.

Andre (Audio Hdwr) offered that I could test/review the following:
Piano Hi-Fi DAC 2.1
Volt AMP
KALI Reclocker

Not a full-blown VANA system but since I already have a spare Raspberry Pi 2 Model B with an IQaudIO DAC+ installed it would be an interesting comparison.

So using that as a base I removed the IQaudIO DAC+ and installed the Piano Hi-Fi DAC 2.1. Dead simple - fits onto the Raspberry PI as per the IQaudIO DAC+ and so good to go - fingers crossed.

I have been using Squeezebox Server and a Squeezebox Classic for years now so that is the environment I am testing in – I don’t stream from the internet so won’t be looking at that side of things.

The Raspberry PI is running Max2Play v2.37 – I’ve been using that for about a year or so now since it offers a good web interface to control the PI and it’s installed software (Squeezebox Server and SqueezePlug) plus it has specific extensions/packages for the IQaudIO DAC.

After rebooting the PI I checked the IQaudIO settings in Max2Play to specify the DAC I’m using – well since the Piano Hi-Fi DAC 2.1 isn’t actually an IQaudIO product I guessed/crossed fingers that the setting of IQaudio Pi-DAC+ would work.

And it did :) Fired up the system, switched on the amp and selected the Raspberry Pi as the input – went to the iPad and started iPeng (SqueezeBox control app) to browse some music on the Raspberry Pi. I’ve got a playlist that I use to test whenever I change something in the system and chose that. No problem – all worked as expected, DAC recognised and working as expected.

Initial impressions are very good – usually everything goes through an Audiocom modified Squeezebox Classic into an M2Tech Young DAC. Using the Pi/Piano Hi-Fi DAC 2.1 the bass has less impact and the soundstage is not quite so wide but for something that costs significantly less than my usual system it does not disgrace itself. If I was just beginning to get into the world of digital/streaming music, then I would have been more than satisfied with what I was hearing and very happy with my system.

One thing I noticed is that the RCA binding posts and not quite as robust as those used on the IQaudIO DAC. The Piano Hi-Fi DAC 2.1 uses a single post for each cable whilst the IQaudIO DAC uses a double unit. When I was taking the connects off the Piano DAC I noticed that there was a degree of movement/flex as I pulled the connect off – maybe I’m a bit ‘rough’ with the connect but might be worth bearing in mind when changing cables/connecting the system.

The next stage is to install the KALI Reclocker to see what impact that has on the system – but I need a suitable power supply for the KALI and am waiting for Andre to get back to see if the power supplies I have lying around are suitable.

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DAVE,
good to see you are up and running and that you sorted out the PSU question.
Please let me know if you have anymore comments or questions.

Just have to source/get some suitable power supplies - don't have anything lying around at the moment :)

Hi,
Do you still have a bundle offer available?
;-)

How are things going guys?

I'm currently playing SYRO by Aphex Twin.

lol... it's completely bonkers, wonderful dynamics, texture and the bass is chest punching good. :)

This system is really starting to amaze me now.

Finally got around to putting all the pieces together today – and I have to say I’m very impressed with the system.

Took me a while to find some suitable power supplies – ended up with this one:

LINDY Multi Country Switching AC Adapter - 5V DC, 3A, 2.5mm Inner / 5.5mm Outer DC Jack
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

for the KALI Reclocker and this one:

19V 3.42A 5.5x2.5mm POWER CHARGER REPLACEMENT
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

for the Volt Amp.

Andre had arranged to have a 2.5mm to 3.0mm adapter included in the kit for the Volt Amp so everything went together no problem.

Tried Moode 2.7 first – never really tried this before but thought it would be a change and was curious to see how it performed. Installed and booted up fine and after a bit of tinkering, hooking up to my NAS and the like started to have a listen. All sounded fine for a couple of tracks – until I tried to pause a track. Then I had the same problem that jonners was experiencing – the last second or so of the track is repeated before pausing. After checking out the thread relating to this and not wanting to bother Andre with replacing the unit (DAC I guess) I switched to using Max2Play instead.

My main system is based around SqueezeBox so am familiar with this and have a number of apps that I can use to control the server. So installed Max2Play (version 2.37 now), set up a mount point to the NAS, got SqueezeBox Server to do a full scan and away we go.

Brilliant – sounds better than I expected. For a system with such a small footprint it really does exceed expectations – the quality is excellent. I’m running this into a set of Q Acoustics 2010i speakers and the bass/tone/seperation is really good – only running at low volume at the moment (don’t want to annoy the neighbours) but the detail is very good.

I’ll try this in my main system later this week to see how it fairs but I’m guessing it’ll sound excellent.

Hi Dave.

Glad you are finding it good. It is a superb bit of kit. The KALI really does make the difference with the dac.

I am now running mine with the RPI 2 running Moode. It's really quite stunning. I just can't get on the LMS so Moode is better for me.

The Volt amp is a superb little thing too... I was so very surpised and at 50wpc it's flexible for a good percentage of speakers.

:cool:

Think I'll be sticking with LMS - using Orange Squeeze on an Android tablet to control the playback or iPeng on an iPad.

It's true that big surprises come in small packages - might be a late night listening to some music - what's not to like :)

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Originally Posted by Emmings

Tried Moode 2.7 first – never really tried this before but thought it would be a change and was curious to see how it performed. Installed and booted up fine and after a bit of tinkering, hooking up to my NAS and the like started to have a listen. All sounded fine for a couple of tracks – until I tried to pause a track. Then I had the same problem that jonners was experiencing – the last second or so of the track is repeated before pausing.

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This was a problem with the early Kalis. Allo.com will send you a replacement if you contact them. Mine arrived quickly and all is now OK.

Any benefit of using just the reclocker board into my Arcam DAC (which is currently running straight from a RPi 2 via Coax)?

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Originally Posted by Simon_LDT

Any benefit of using just the reclocker board into my Arcam DAC (which is currently running straight from a RPi 2 via Coax)?

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Hi Simon,
yes you will see great improvement.
KALI will sync the clocks of the RPI and the DAC, no info lost, better sound quality.

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Originally Posted by Simon_LDT

Any benefit of using just the reclocker board into my Arcam DAC (which is currently running straight from a RPi 2 via Coax)?

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Via coax? That suggests SPDIF, an output which the RPi doesn't have. Or are you using USB? To use the Kali you would have to route the I2S signals from Kali into the DAC. There's no SPDIF or USB out from Kali.

True, no SPDIF out on the RPI2.

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Originally Posted by jonners

Via coax? That suggests SPDIF, an output which the RPi doesn't have. Or are you using USB? To use the Kali you would have to route the I2S signals from Kali into the DAC. There's no SPDIF or USB out from Kali.

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Sorry, forgot to include that I'm using the HifiBerry Digi+ board which fits onto the RPi2 board and has optical/coax outputs. I've read on the Allo website that for the Kali to work with a DAC other than the Piano, it needs to be a slave DAC. How can one find this out?

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Originally Posted by Simon_LDT

Sorry, forgot to include that I'm using the HifiBerry Digi+ board which fits onto the RPi2 board and has optical/coax outputs. I've read on the Allo website that for the Kali to work with a DAC other than the Piano, it needs to be a slave DAC. How can one find this out?

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The Digi+ works in master mode and is not compatible with Kali. There's some discussion of the master/slave issue on the HiFiBerry forum.

John

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Originally Posted by jonners

The Digi+ works in master mode and is not compatible with Kali. There's some discussion of the master/slave issue on the HiFiBerry forum.

John

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Thanks John, will take a look over there.

See also post #91.


Good moaning, I have had my 'Allo 'Allo DAC running for a couple of days now.

Why buy it?
I have been running a Pi2 + IQAudio DAC+ for the last year or so and have been optimising the 5V supply for it over the last few weeks. A bit of research and some pcb tracing shows that the supply arrangements are: 5V from the Pi is fed to an on board LDO which supplies 3V3 to the analogue side of the DAC, the Pi's 3V3 supply (from a switching reg) supplies the digital side of the DAC. Comments on DIYAudio claim the IQ DAC+ has some design deficiencies. I am not sure if this is what they mean. In comparison the Piano 2.1 DAC has separate on board LDOs for the digital and analogue supply pins and it gets its feed from the KALI, so avoids the switching reg in the Pi.
In addition there is the well known problem of the Pi clock not being a multiple of 44.1Khz so they need to do some manipulation of the clock to get near to the right frequency. The KALI sorts this and also removes the alleged high levels of jitter on the I2S output.
Conclusion: lower jitter and better supplies ough to provide much better sound and all the review seem to back this up.

Listening session 1:
Swapped the IQ DAC+ for the Piano 2.1. PS still fed from the Pi2 and still using Moode 2.3 (yes, I know it's over a year old). The Piano worked exactly the same and no settings needed to be changed (hardware vol and Low latency IIR with de-emphasis filter).
Initial impression, with low level listening, was of a bit more detail and control over the DAC+.
I left is playing for several hours and then listened again. Same impression.

Listening session 2:
As everyone else was out I was able to enjoy some more enthusiastic replay levels :-)
1st off tried the Piano without the KALI. Similar impression to the 1st session but also noticed a lack of dynamics and a somewhat flat and narrow soundstage compared to what I was used to with the DAC+. Had a good blast for 1/2 an hour then decided it was time for the "gamechanger".
With great expectation I fired up the Pi2/KALI/Piano2.1 stack, powered via the KALI from the same external 5V supply.
Initial impression was that is was a bit cleaner and tidier sounding than without the KALI. BUT... the same lack of dynamics and feeble soundstage remained.

I then went back to Pi2 & DAC+. Better is every way! The music is back in my living room!
The simple fact is that the IQAudio DAC just makes me want to listen louder and longer, and to a wider range of music.



Officer Crabtree: [climbing out of the rubble] There is obviously no piss for the wicked.:)

Nice honest review Dave.

I get exactly the opposite between IQAudio DAC and the Piano/Kali combo using MoOde, on the Piano/Kali I get about 30-40% more width/soundstage and better cleaner bass which results in more slam/kick

Did you make sure the alsamixer was set right on both setups, I know on mine that if I reboot or switch dacs I need to go back in via SSH and set the Digital output on the Piano/Kali to my preferred gain, currently set at -2.0 db on the digital setting, both analog levels set at max.

Yes, I just checked the settings in Alsamixer. Both analogue volumes are at max and digital is the same as the setting on the controller (because I use the digital hardware volume control).

I suspect the power supply routing is the issue. I notice some inductors on the Allo Allo pcbs, I might try bypassing these.
I also might try the KALI with the IQ DAC - this will need the 3V3 supply rerouting through from the Pi or somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Starterman

Yes, I just checked the settings in Alsamixer. Both analogue volumes are at max and digital is the same as the setting on the controller (because I use the digital hardware volume control).

I suspect the power supply routing is the issue. I notice some inductors on the Allo Allo pcbs, I might try bypassing these.
I also might try the KALI with the IQ DAC - this will need the 3V3 supply rerouting through from the Pi or somewhere.

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I don't use the volume control within MoOde as this in turn reduces the Digital scale. I use hardware too but use the amp to control the volume with the digital scale set at -2 and I don't change this at all. On your system does changing the volume not cancel/change the digital settings?

It used to be that 86 was preferred for the IQAUDIO DAC in MoOde but Tim changed this to be 100 (0db) I believe, but 0db on my system is a bit rough on treble hence the -2db setting.

I always thought if using hardware volume you used an external amp to control the volume as the hardware setting should be set and not moved once you find a preferred setting?

What software are you using?

The hardware volume is done inside the DAC chip. The Alsamixer digtial volume varies as the controller (an iPhone in my case) is varied - or vice versa, it's possible to change the setting in Alsamixer and iPhone "follows" it.
The 0dB thing was fixed within the kernels used by Moode IIUC.

When I power down and back up the digital volume stays at the same setting. This workes exactly the same for the Allo units as for the IQ. I believe I am comparing apples with apples here.

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Originally Posted by Starterman

The hardware volume is done inside the DAC chip. The Alsamixer digtial volume varies as the controller (an iPhone in my case) is varied - or vice versa, it's possible to change the setting in Alsamixer and iPhone "follows" it.
The 0dB thing was fixed within the kernels used by Moode IIUC.

When I power down and back up the digital volume stays at the same setting. This workes exactly the same for the Allo units as for the IQ. I believe I am comparing apples with apples here.

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Ok fair enough doesn't work that way on mine, the digital scale must remain at our near 0db or it just sounds flat and lifeless.

If I used my iPad to control volume it took over and reverted MoOde back to software volume so it required changing back again to hardware and putting it back to 0db.

If I use volume control on the MoOde web page that again affects the hardware alsamixer settings and needs resetting. I always thought the alsamixer settings were set then there was no need to change them again, hence my use of amp to control the volume?

If I use my smartphone and say Bubble uPnP it can't change the volume as I have it set not to because it does exactly the same, it overrides the alsamixer setting and again needs be set back at 0db ( -2 in my case) on the digital scale.

Be great if I could control volume via my smartphone or iPad, save walking over to the amp lol but as it is I can't as it doesn't work that way for me without altering the alsamixer digital settings [emoji6]

Using the aphonics dac but was told moode is now software 96 setting. Seems to sound good to me.

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Originally Posted by struth

Using the aphonics dac but was told moode is now software 96 setting. Seems to sound good to me.

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Yip I have the Allo Piano DAC set at 98 (-2db) and I don't change it.

Originally on the IQAUDIO DAC Tim had MoOde set to 0db at 86, but was changed to 100 in a later version of MoOde.

I'm confused by the other posts saying that they use hardware volume control as I thought once set it was meant to be fixed and then use an external volume control, I've just changed my Bubble settings to use the phone volume control and although it worked it just moved the alsamixer setting which, as far as I thought shouldn't be changed once set at optimum for your system, ie: 96 on yours Grant and 98 on mine.

The Piano/Kali setup on mine is belting out some Porcupine Tree and I type and it's rocking very nicely indeed [emoji6]

Marco said to try 96. Was 86 then 100, but 96 is way better i think. Just set software max to 96. Its as high as it will go then,

Using moode 2.7

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Originally Posted by struth

Marco said to try 96. Was 86 then 100, but 96 is way better i think. Just set software max to 96. Its as high as it will go then,

Using moode 2.7

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Yip that's me on MoOde 2.7 too

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Originally Posted by Starterman

I also might try the KALI with the IQ DAC - this will need the 3V3 supply rerouting through from the Pi or somewhere.

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I don't think think the IQ DAC will work with Kali even with the 3v3 supply - because it operates in master mode and the Kali requires a dac that's in slave mode.
Like Mike, I greatly prefer the Kali/Piano over the IQAudio sound.

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Originally Posted by jonners

I don't think think the IQ DAC will work with Kali even with the 3v3 supply - because it operates in master mode and the Kali requires a dac that's in slave mode.
Like Mike, I greatly prefer the Kali/Piano over the IQAudio sound.

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For the IQ DAC+ to be master it would need a clock on board. I cannot see any evidence of one, so I think it operates in slave mode.

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Originally Posted by Starterman

For the IQ DAC+ to be master it would need a clock on board. I cannot see any evidence of one, so I think it operates in slave mode.

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True. I was passing on something I read elsewhere, which looks like it was incorrect. I'll be interested to see if the addition of the 3v3 supply can make it work.

Initial impression listening to the PI2/Piano2.1 combo (no KALI) with the inductor on the Piano shorted are good. Dynamics and soundstage are much better and it could well be preferable to the IQ DAC+ now.
More listening needed, but much 'appier with 'Allo 'Allo now.

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Originally Posted by Starterman

Initial impression listening to the PI2/Piano2.1 combo (no KALI) with the inductor on the Piano shorted are good. Dynamics and soundstage are much better and it could well be preferable to the IQ DAC+ now.
More listening needed, but much 'appier with 'Allo 'Allo now.

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Excellent [emoji5]

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Originally Posted by Starterman

Initial impression listening to the PI2/Piano2.1 combo (no KALI) with the inductor on the Piano shorted are good. Dynamics and soundstage are much better and it could well be preferable to the IQ DAC+ now.
More listening needed, but much 'appier with 'Allo 'Allo now.

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Just now I tried shorting the inductor on the Piano 2.0, with the Kali in place. Result: The opposite of what Dave found: I thought the sound was livelier and more dynamic with the inductor in circuit.
Dave, are you going to give Kali+Piano another try?
(I'm on Moode 2.7 btw)

Shorting the inductor? Any pics of this please?

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Originally Posted by The Black Adder

Shorting the inductor? Any pics of this please?

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The inductor is the square black component with '152' on top, near the headphone socket. I just powered down and (carefully) put a croc clip across it. That was just my way though, and I don't necessarily recommend it to others!

That's exactly what I did!

Please be very, very careful not to touch the caps on either side of the inductor with the croc clip - one end of each cap is ground and if you short to that end something will go pop!

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Originally Posted by jonners

Just now I tried shorting the inductor on the Piano 2.0, with the Kali in place. Result: The opposite of what Dave found: I thought the sound was livelier and more dynamic with the inductor in circuit.
Dave, are you going to give Kali+Piano another try?
(I'm on Moode 2.7 btw)

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Yes I will try the KALI again. I need to figure out how the 2 inductors on the KALI board are connected. If one or both are in series with any analogue supply (to the DAC) they will probably end up being shorted.

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Originally Posted by Starterman

That's exactly what I did!

Please be very, very careful not to touch the caps on either side of the inductor with the croc clip - one end of each cap is ground and if you short to that end something will go pop!

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Indeed. And be careful it doesn't flip off and short something somewhere else!
In other words, don't do this at home!

Daft hobby!...

Further listening to the Pi & Piano today and I removed the short across the inductor. Sounded better without it!
Then added the KALI and it sounded better still.
Now the strange thing is that 1/2 hour into the listening sesh the sound suddenly opened up. WTH is going on here - I really don't want to believe in running-in of components, but?!

Anyway, I am now very happy wih the Allo Allo stuff.
Next step is to get my filters programmed iinto purepath and see what benefits can be had from getting rid of my analogue (discrete) active crossover.

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Originally Posted by Audiohdwr

ironic question coming from a Rothchild :) ( Rothschild)

we offer 50% off your purchase to the first 5 AOS members.
all we ask for is REAL feedback on sound quality.

list starts now.

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Hi, Is this offer still valid ? I currently have an Audiophonics.fr Gen. 2 and wouldn't mind comparing it to the Allo.

Greetings
Ru

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starterman

That's exactly what I did!

Please be very, very careful not to touch the caps on either side of the inductor with the croc clip - one end of each cap is ground and if you short to that end something will go pop!

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Some heavy modding going on here :)
any pics would be nice to see what you guys are doing.
i would like to be able to share with our engineers so that I can give you some clear answers on some of the comments i read form Starterman and Jonners.

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Originally Posted by r100

Hi, Is this offer still valid ? I currently have an Audiophonics.fr Gen. 2 and wouldn't mind comparing it to the Allo.

Greetings
Ru

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yes sure.
please PM me

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Originally Posted by Audiohdwr

Some heavy modding going on here :)
any pics would be nice to see what you guys are doing.
i would like to be able to share with our engineers so that I can give you some clear answers on some of the comments i read form Starterman and Jonners.

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Nothing heavy, and I think we both finally preferred the Piano as it is!

Hi Andre.

I have wondered if the 2.1 could be modded (via hardware or software) to use both dacs monolithically instead of having one dac chip dormant if a sub isn't used?

Just a little thought.. :)

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Originally Posted by Audiohdwr

yes sure.
please PM me

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Oh how annoying, I ordered mine because I thought this offer was fully subscribed :doh:
It brings to mind the old saying "If you don't ask you don't get".

On the subject of modding, it would be interesting if you could post up the power supply arrangements. i.e. the power flow from KALI via the 2 onboard inductors and to the Piano. I can understand the value of isolating different parts from noise but sometimes low impedance gives a better sound (those inductors have a DCR of 2.4 Ohms) especially for those of us using a nice low noise linear 5V supply.

PS: I am Dave S on DIYAudio, so keen to use the DSP filters built into the 5142!

have asked the engineers on the 2 last questions above... will have answer soon.

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Originally Posted by Starterman

I also might try the KALI with the IQ DAC - this will need the 3V3 supply rerouting through from the Pi or somewhere.

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Have you tried this Dave? I'm thinking of having a go myself, running a 3v3 regulator off the Kali 5v header to supply the DAC. Question is, where to connect the 3v3 to the DAC? My inclination is to go to pins 1 and 17 on the IQ header, what do you think?

hello ,
please see replies here:

Starterman:
Kali and and Piano have on board individual filter circuit for the main 5v input and ultra low noise and high pssr LDOs.


Balck Adder:
We can control L&R as well as sub RCA connectors by software ... i can show you how.