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Great post - look forward to hearing more.
Was it expensive having Tirna mod your 7520? The Wolfsen DAC can be purchased for less than £4 + delivery from Farnell...
http://uk.farnell.com/wolfson-microe...716/dp/1354193
... but swapping out the DAC chip is way beyond my capabilities.
Hi Getgaff,
no not expensive at all, the cost was £30 including postage and packaging.
Great service.
If you include the postage to send the DAC to them, that works out at about £40, which is also the price difference between the TC-7520 and the Caiman, with the LM4562NA thrown in.
Your spot on Stan, I forgot about the cost of posting it down there.
£40 all in.
Stan is right. Think hard. Standacs sell very well on ebay, so a Caiman could be by far and away the best deal.
I might eBay my 7510 and buy another Caiman - I need one in my flat in Southampton and one in the bungalow in Nicosia.
Stan, I think you said that the Caiman (and Wolfson 7520) would only show their full potential with an uprated power supply you were developing.
Is there any more news about this? If you could say when it will be available and details of the differences it would be appreciated.
I'd be interested in this too Stan, I'm currently using the Maplin one, but I know its not as good as the Caiman specific one.
I'll only know for sure when it will be available after I have a production sample in my hand:).Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
Stan
Chaps.
I've only had my 7520 since mid-May, I'm currently running the 4032 opamp upgrade and am very pleased with the sound but I would defo have gone for the Caimen if it had been around at the time.
Funds are tight so with eBay/Paypal fees and inevitable s/h losses, upgrading mine is still the cheaper option.
The question is, and Stan has already told me his preference (thanks Stan), is whether to stick with the 4032 opamps currently fitted and just swap the DAC chip for the Wolfson, or also get the LM4562HA with the MLC5/6 mod done at the same time?
Cost differences between the two will be minimal, so it just down to sound/performance.
If the opamp choice is mostly due to bass weight, I may do best to stick with the 4032s as my system isn't short of grunt as it is....
Views please gents?
Hi Steve,
I have just received my 'Wolfsoned' 7520 from Tirna this morning and I have the 4032 fitted in the line out with the 4562 in the variable output.
I dont think I should put any comments down until its bedded in for a few days so bear with me Twelvebears :lol:
A great service from Tirna by the way so a big thank you to Jimmy and Alan.
I am sure I will use them again soon.
Still braking in my Caiman (since 5 days) but I really can appreciate the mids en bass which already were apparent 'out of the box'. In my ears there are no frequenties that dominate or that are audibly absent.
I love the headphone amp as well since I have 2 little kids crawling around that do make a lot of noise. Nothing fancy, but my Sennheiser HD-570 work great with the amp.
No flaws yet? Well, just minor ones. The on/off button on my unit does not always work. Clicking it on or off produces the clicking sound but the Caiman doesn't alway obey. I guess it is still a wild animal that needs to be tamed if it ever will. My 7510 doesn't have this problem.
I like the bigger size of the volume knob but I prefer the better resitance the knop of the 7510 offers. I think it revolves too easy/light which gives it a cheap/plastic feeling. But then, it's not that I am switching the headphone volume all day long.
So far my first impressions.
I am looking forward to the improved psu as well!
Cheers Jerry, in no big rush (need to concentrate on my impending house move), but I would appreciate your views.Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
I've just ordered a Caiman today and will post my thoughts when I've got it up and running and with at least 24 hours' burn-in.
Looking forward to trying some Blu-rays as well as CD and streamed hi-res music.
Remember to output the blu-rays in stereo on the digital out. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Oh yes, it's already set up that way (I'm currently using an old Assemblage DAC3.0, good in its day but a little old now).Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Hi Jerry.. actually, the line out and variable out are the same (chip over the hp jack; the op amp over the volume control is for the HPA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
I stand corrected Doug.
Well my Caiman arrived about 2 hours ago (thanks Stan for a great service) and I've hooked it up temporarily to the laptop (USB) and the Roku Soundbridge (Profigold coax) and even though it is running in and connected with a very dodgy interconnect (Silver High Breed will be the solution when I install it properly) I can already tell what a great purchase I have made. The Soundbridge no longer sounds compressed, I've only tried Spotify from the laptop so far (not premium, so 160kbps?) but that sounded promising too - too early though to be too analytical, until properly installed and run in (plus my new Creek amp should be ready tomorrow, which will change everything again anyway) but so far it is looking very promising indeed. And I love the blue LEDS...!
I finally managed to get a reasonably good listen to my Caiman over the weekend.
I think it still needs more running it yet but I've now got a better idea of what the differences are in the sound between my 7520 and the Caiman. For clarification my 7520 has the metal can version of the opamps used in the Caimen and has the MLC5/6 caps removed. So the main difference between the two is the DAC chip.
The Caiman is definitely extracting more detail from the recordings. I've never heard so much detail in the treble and mid-range. The soundstage is also more three dimensional and airy and more subtle underlying details are now audible. There seems to be better separation and clarity as well which makes everything sound more lively and enjoyable.
I've also noticed that the frequency response of my system now seems to be flatter.
I use a very basic pink noise generator and RTA to help me to tweak the EQ on my PC soundcard to get a flat frequency response. I used to have to cut a lot of bass frequencies and boost high frequencies but I noticed that using these same setting on the Caimen sounded too harsh in the treble and weak in the bass. So I've now been able back off the amount of EQ I use which is a big bonus. This came as a bit of a surprise as I doubt the standard 7520 has a lumpy frequency response. So it must just be something to do with the way the Caiman works with the rest of my system and how that interacts with my room. :scratch:
Whatever the reason it works for me. :cool:
Thanks Mr Beresford for making a fantastic piece of kit!!
I've had my Caiman for over a week now, and it has been playing pretty much constantly to run in.
I'm using it purely to drive my Denon AHD-5000 headphones to play FLAC files from my laptop, and I have to say I'm extremely pleased with it.
In my rather limited vocabulary, I'd describe the Caiman as having a very enjoyable and detailed sound. It doesn't seem to have a preference for any particular type of music, as I've thrown a fair variety at it. It pulls a lot of detail out of the mix, but not in a distracting way. The real benefit for me is that it has good timing and plays basslines _properly_ - this is key to a lot of the music that I'm more biased towards playing.
I don't have any of the older Beresfords to compare it with, but from the perspective of using it as a DAC and headphone amp it's great. I think my Little Dot Microtube headphone amp has just become superfluous and may end up on eBay soon ;)
In summary - I'm very impressed with the Caiman.
Simon
Try some reggae and feel the Denon vibrate even when you can't hear any bass. The AHD-5000 goes down to 5Hz, and I managed to test the Caiman all the way down to 10Hz at 0dB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon P
Stan
I collected my Caiman this morning (many thanks, Stan). I'm running it in the office just to put some hours on it before I connect it to the Hi-Fi system tonight. First impressions are very good: nicely finished unit, quality controls and sockets and seamless operation via the USB interface from my XP netbook. Sound quality through my Sony in-ear phones is very favourable with good soundstage, excellent detail and a very nice immersive feel.
I shall write more when I test it tonight.
I've had my Caiman now for getting on for a week.
As I always find with Stan's DACs (Yes, I've had a few!) they sound awful when first plugged in. I'm used to this now and don't even try to listen for a few hours. But imo 5 or 6 hours takes you 90% of the way thru the break-in process.
I'd not disagree with any of the positive comments already posted, but would just add some additional comments of my own ....
1) it's Stan's best yet, and I say that as a long-standing Fanboy of his DACs.
2) I was happy with the 7520, but the Caiman really does go to another league with its sense of image solidity, naturally presented tonally-correct detail, and its relaxed, unhyped but awesomely wide dynamics.
Oh, and I prefer it with my Yamaha DVD player as a CD source rather than my usual Audio Synthesis CDT. The latter comes across as a bit lightweight in comparison, it always was a detail-oriented player and that seems to be taken a bit too far with the Caiman.
Nice one Stan. :)
Just received my Caiman this morning, thanks for the speedy service as usual Stan.
First impressions are hard for me because i am also integrating a new processor and amplifier which is vastly better than my predecessors and using sub optimal IC's until i put everything back into place but there's definitely more slam in the bass, not boomy but i can really feel it and it's nice. Just like the 7520 brought more energy and mid range versus the 7510 i feel this Caiman is doing the same to the 7520.
A little sibilance for me right now but that should settle a bit once burned in and i probably need another EQ change which also happened with the 7520/TH4032 combo.
A question for a Mac user:
When using the Caiman, has anyone compared the USB and the Optical link?
Yes indeed. USB is the choice for me for two reasons on a Mac:Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
1. I prefer the sound. There's not a lot in it, but I find it a bit more natural and airy.
2. I don't like the mini TOSLINK connector on the Mac. If you're using a good quality optical cable (like Stan's for instance) which requires an adaptor, the heavy cable puts quite a lot of strain on the socket, and as this socket is soldered directly to the motherboard, sooner or later it'll work loose and you'll need it repaired.
The drawback of course is that USB is no good for anything higher than 48KHz/24-bit. The only stuff I've downloaded at any higher quality than that is the B&W music club stuff, which, to say the least, is not to my taste.
Thanks Rich.
And to advance the question.
Has anyone using a Windows PC with S/PDIF (coax or optical) made a comparison with the USB connection.
That is not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by lovejoy
See this (very long) thread
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...04-mini-review
This box will go higher, and very cheaply.
The problem is, I believe, that many PC manufactures do not implement USB 2 properly.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8064/8...011027a9_b.jpg
I've now installed the Caiman in my 'big rig', being used with Sky HD, D-Link DSM-520 media streamer and Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player through to the Pass Labs preamp.
The Caiman is at the same time subtle and immediately obvious in its capabilities compared with my old Assemblage DAC3.0. Let me explain: it throws a wide and deep soundstage, entirely natural and populated with such fine detail as to make for a very realistic sound picture, drawing you in to the presentation. There is nothing obvious about the frequency extremes, except for the fact that media with real bass content starts to move air in an alarming manner. Watching hi-res content from Blu-ray, I begin to become aware of the sheer amount of micro-detail and micro-dynamics in the presentation. This is something I've only heard from SACD and DVD-A material. Again, it's subtle but beautifully presented, the last thing from in-your-face equipment.
Playing a music CD using the Blu-ray player as transport, the combination seriously kicks at the heels of my Ayre disc player, very high praise indeed.
The Caiman represents superb value for money. Forgetting the price and using a decent transport, it competes honourably with £5k of high end SACD player. Fabulous!
Yes, this is interesting. Although I was referring to the Caiman which won't go any higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Martin, have you tried using your Caiman as a preamp? I am wondering how it compares to your Pass Labs Preamp.
Well the Wolfon 7520 has been playing for a few days and has improved a lot during that period. Very important to me and mentioned by others is its vice like grip on the bass so that problems I had attributed to room proportions and use of floorstanders in a small room have evaporated. Soundstage, clarity, detail etc have improved. In a word the sound is now assured.Quote:
Originally Posted by twelvebears
The 4032 op-amp may play a part in this but I am very termpted to try other op-amps to get a little more decay to the notes hopefully without inducing that one note bass that I have striven to remove. I guess what I am after is just a little more warmth. Initially I think I will try putting back the 4562 and look to doing the MCL5/6 in a way that I can solder the caps back if required. Then maybe try a metal cap jobby. All good cheap fun.
Sorry this isn't a great help Steve but as usual equipment room and general set-up will make a big difference. I could easily live with the Wolfson 7520/4032 but that ol niggly 'what if' keeps popping into my mind.
The sad fact is that the THOR switch box with the LCD display was also designed by me. Note the almost identical size and styling;).Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
However, I never got to reap the rewards and expand that range. I got made redundant from that company, and that is how I ended up setting up my own business. Due to legal issues I can't use the THOR LCD text display and the underlying technology to adjust the displayed text. But it doesn't stop me from getting someone else to write their own set of code for me:eyebrows:. Maybe one day...
STan
It wouldn't work out as the rest of my system is fully balanced and I need analogue inputs for my SL-1210 and Ayre players. The pass drives my Chord in balanced mode and I discovered some years ago that the Chord sounds much better driven this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by therockst4r
Martin, ok I understand. I was just wondering if I should replace my nice integrated amp with a better power amp and a Caiman acting as a preamp.
Wow - congrats on another superb and functionally focused design. I love that Thor box as it was the exact solution I needed for a Sony Bravia with only one HDMI input. I used to switch digital sound with it too but have run them all into the Caiman now to keep to single runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
By the way, Stan, if you ever design a 'Super Caiman' with balanced outputs, I'll be the first in the queue.
Are there any DACs on the market with balanced outputs? I have never seen one.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
I drive my Quad power amp directly from the Standac.Quote:
Originally Posted by therockst4r
Works well. You have no analogue input option, of course.
When I had the Quad 405 refurbished I had the input sensitivity adjusted. I can use the fixed output of the Standac and rely on the 24bit digital volume control in the Squeezebox. Provided the volume control is 85% or higher, with the 7510 the fixed output is a little clearer. I have not made the comaprison with the Caiman, which claims cleaner analogue circuits.
I don't do this routinely because the Virgin Cable box does not have it's own volume control.
My six year old Assemblage DAC3.0 has balanced outputs.Quote:
Originally Posted by therockst4r
@Martin: I just wasn't aware that this was an offered feature.
@Labarum: So do you think that the Caiman is comparable to a budget preamp, or would there be a big improvement if I use a dedicate preamp?
By rights the Caiman driving a power amp ought to offer the cleaner sound because there are less components in the analogue chain, but the precise input/output impedance characteristics can sometimes mean the sound is better with a pre-amp.Quote:
Originally Posted by therockst4r
I can only share my experience with the Beresford 7510. I have not repeated the experiment with the Caiman, which is reputed to have a better analogue output section.
Cleanest option:
Squeezebox > Standac (fixed out)> Quad 405-2 > Speakers
Relies on 24 bit digital remote volume control in Squeezbox.
Input/output sensitivity need to be matched so as to run at about 90% volume or else the digital volume control may degrade the sound. If the Standac had overdriven the power amp I could have inserted high quality in-line attenuators to the same effect.
I do not use this option because I also need a feed from a Virgin Cable TV box, which has no volume control. You would need to be very sure of your hardware and software to omit an analogue volume control - one digital crack could blow your tweeters.
My Chosen option:
Squeezebox and Virgin Box > Standac (variable out) > Quad 405-2 > Speakers
Very marginally less clarity on my most revealing recordings. Caiman may have closed the gap. Uses manual volume control on Standac about which my daughter complains bitterly when she is watching TV!
Least clear option.
Ssqueezebox and Virgin Box > Standac (fixed output) > Quad 77 Integrated Amp > Speakers
This option gives a remote analogue volume control and the ability to play analogue sources, but lacks the clarity and drive of the other options. The power amplifier in the Quad 77 Integrated amp is quite a few years younger than the 405-2, but that has been very recently upgraded and has all new capacitors and central op-amp. The 405-2 is the better, more powerful, amp and that shows. The 77 Integrated is renowned for a smooth laid back presentation, and that it delivers, but the power amp lacks the clout of the 405, and the pre-amp introduces its losses.
I have once driven the 405-2 from the Pre-out on the 77 integrated amp. The sheer power 405-2 shows, but so does the marginal clouding of the pre-amp.
Conclusion
All these options achieve very acceptable standards and I will happily listen to any. They trade clarity against convenience. You can only make your own judgements.
I had a quick play around yesterday comparing USB to coaxial from the PC into the Caiman which feeds my AV9 Processor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
My initial feelings are that coaxial provides a smoother and less sibilant sound than the USB but i need more time for a proper comparison, i also have the problem in that the Caiman is probably settling in over the first 10-20hrs and using some new IC's also so the differences could be down to that. I remember comparing USB to coax a little while back with my stock 7520 and finding little to zero difference but that was with an Arcam A90/P85 combo so it was short of quality versus my current AV9/P7.
The more time i get on the Caiman the better it is sounding though, it's really pulling some detail out of some recordings i've never heard before and bass lines that definitely weren't as nearly pronounced :)
Labarum: Thanks for the advice, I think I may consider using it as a preamp, if it's as clear as you say. You have me scared about blowing my tweeters though. How exactly would I prevent this from happening if I use the variable out on the Caiman to my power amp?
Thanks for the help.
If you have no analogue volume control in the analogue chain you are effectively working with the volume control at maximum all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by therockst4r
That is fine, because you can reduce the volume in the digital domain, but there are two cautions.
1. If you use too much digital attenuation, you start to degrade the bitstream. You might or might not hear the effects of this depending on the resolution of your analogue chain, and the amount of digital attenuation applied. My Squeezebox has a 24 bit volume control and most of the time it is passing 16 bit data - there are noughts and ones to spare. Advice I have seen elsewhere suggests I can run the Squeezebox volume control down to 85% with no problem - in practice I can go much lower, because at low volumes the ear looses acuity anyway - like listening to a band on the other side of the valley! But it is is important to have the output of the DAC well matched to the input sensitivity of the amp - and to use in line attenuators to achieve that match, if necessary, so the average volume setting is higher than 85%.
2. If there is an error in hardware or software the output can go instantly from 00000000 to 11111111 (for an 8 bit system). This digital crack would deliver a highly energetic pulse to your amp which would pass it on to your speakers - the tweeters might not survive (remember the amp is always at max volume.) Don't test anything on full volume, and only turn it up or remove the volume control when you are sure of the stability of your system. In practice this will not be an issue for you because, I guess, you will be using a Standac's variable output which has an analogue volume control - a simple but effective potentiometer. Start at zero volume on the Standac and wind it up gently, just as you would if the Preamp were in circuit - it's no different.
Thank you for clearing that up Labarum.
I don't think relying on a computer program's digital volume is worth the risk if you love your equipment. Computer glitches happen, period. As Brian said, the result could be very expensive damage. (you might be surprised how much replacement tweeters or crossover boards are)
I wouldn't use the line out, so that wouldn't really be an issue. The potentiometer would prevent it from reaching maximum volume, also I am pretty sure that my power amp isn't even powerful enough to do any damage.
I have been reading about the Caiman with interest and have a question. I am currently using a Cambridge Audio DACMagic. Is the Caiman likely to be any superior to the DACMagic, as it's apparently using a single WM8716 chip whereas the DACMagic is using dual WM8740s? According to the Wolfson spec sheets they are basically the same chip, but the WM8740 has a better SNR, especially when they're running in stereo?
I'm asking because I'm interested in getting another DAC, but I've recently tested a very expensive DAC that uses the same WM8740 chip as the DACMagic and it sounded identical.
Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by therockst4r
If you are talking about the variable output of the Standac, yes, as it sits in the system, its volume control offers the same degree of protection as that of any pre-amp or integrated amp.
A power amp does not have to be powerful to do damage. If it is driven so hard it "clips", the tweeters are at risk. Clipping occurs when an amp runs out of steam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_%28audio%29
The hard leading edge of a clipped signal is full of high frequency energy - like a cymbal, only much much worse. That's why the tweeters can be blown.
I used a DACMagic for a week and i compared it to a 7510 that i also had, there wasn't much in it but the DACMagic had more detail although it sounded a little thin to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junglist
There is not much doubt to me that the 7520 is a better DAC than the DACMagic imo however and once you add some better opamps it is clearly a better performer and the 'Caiman' improves on the 7520 again by quite a bit.
You can't really go by SNR numbers and the like, some of the enthausiast soundcards (Xonar/Auzentech) have good DAC's and decent specs but they still don't cut the mustard for me.