Not sure I follow Kevin. For what other reason would you buy one?Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyH
Not sure I follow Kevin. For what other reason would you buy one?Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyH
Aesthetics.
Engineering quality.
Design.
Fair enough. They are good criteria, but I personally put the sound first and ergonomics some way behind and as long as the thing won't fall apart, I don't worry too much about the engineering. The aesthetics & design don't concern me.Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyH
If there is one thing the Technics won't do, is fall apart:)
Depends how high you drop it from! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKemp
It has to pass the Mrs H approval test.Quote:
Originally Posted by walpurgis
I find the weights on the Michell Orbe mesmerising. You can sit there and watch it for hours.
The point is that my Technics is producing a pretty good sound. It's not as tweaked as some other members of the forums decks, but I think that to improve the sound, you'll have to spend thousands. So, if we take value for money as the no.1 criteria, as long as you can live with the industrial looks of an SL1200, I think it's hard to beat. Mine has been upgraded over two years and I have enjoyed the journey. I'd love to hear it up against some serious competition, and then compare the expenditure on each deck.
Of course, if money is no object, then I would probably want a hyperdeck or something similar.
I have a rega p3, people tell me the techie would beat this for sound quality though? What do you think?
I agree, but what is so great with the Technics is that I can upgrade in steps. So yes, when it's fully modified it will cost £2000+ but for me that is easier than buying a TT that cost £2000+. Also I plan to buy an Audiomods arm or maybe a Micro Seiki MA-202, and if I choose to buy a different TT in the future, I can use the Audiomods arm on the other TT. If I upgrade the tonearm I will keep the KAB arm with the Fluid Damper.
I think a modified techie would, but in standard form both offer a different type of sound.
It's a question about which one you prefer.
Just check that if you are planning on the Technics specific Audiomods arm, that you can remove the arm board. My understanding is that it is a drop in unit. After what I have heard from my deck, I would encourage people to try a Funk arm. I am really impressed with what AK has done with my standard Technics arm.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKemp
Actually, it's the Gyrodec that has the spinning weights - the Orbe's platter is solid. I know this as my wife cannot be in the same room as my Gyro SE when it's spinning otherwise she starts to feel sick very quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyH
I'm tempted to get her to stump up for an Orbe platter/bearing upgrade but personally, like you, I love the spinning weights!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beobloke
Yes and the fact it sounds pretty darn good too.......:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzan
You cant help NOT look at them :eek:
only thing missing is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ1JiPyXw2w
I think Andy keeps this for private pleasure ;)
That is Pishanto in a naked ie; non musical form a result of which which would not be allowed anywhere in my music room.
Besides my Gyro is better looking and most certainly better sounding.:ner:
I love my Gyro but personally I'd swap it for Kylie without a moment's hesitation...
:eyebrows:
Heard a fully modded Techie at the weekend, also heard a couple of 401's, one with linear tracking arm and another with Michell technoarm.
To me (and my ears) the Techie was a fair bit behind in involvement, realism and that "x factor" I heard with the 401's..
T'was good, especially in terms of soundstage but didn't have the magic I heard from the 401's.
Personally, I've just got a Gyro SE with the full Orbe upgrades, including double spider, but not set her up yet.
Looking fwd to that. :)
It could be any one or a combination of things you were hearing with the Technics Gaz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
It could be a lack of resonance distortion, after all the deck in question does have a MN bearing, MN platter, LDA offboard PSU etc.
There were even SLIC cables in the equation.
I wouldn't judge anything by the results you hear in the room at Owston, although it is possible to get a reasonable idea of what's going on - the room is a known problem in itself.
Enjoy the Gyro - they're good decks.
Is it Brooksy's Techy you're referring to, Gaz? If so, I can totally understand where you're coming from, especially if it was fitted with his usual SME/Ortofron Kontrapunkt combo, which for me although decent enough, just doesn't produce musical synergy.
Although let's not forget that a well-sorted 401, in a quality plinth, is a hard act to beat... However, in the past when I've taken my Techy to Owston (even in a much less 'fettled' state than it is now), it had no problem competing with an assortment of Garrards.
I must make the effort to attend the next Owston, and bring the Techy with me, as it would be interesting to see how it fairs these days against some of the top-notch T/Ts that folk bring to the event. It's interesting too, that the Slics didn't appear to act as the 'universal panacea' that some make out, as I'm not sensing much love there... ;)
Marco.
Just ordered my last upgrade in 2014, according to my wife, that is; the Oyaide MJ-12 + Oyaide BR-ONE. I already have a Rek-o-Kut weight (440g) and I think it would work great with the MJ-12. As I understand the Oyaide weight is also 440g. The ETP is way too expensive for me and I hope that the MJ-12/ BR-ONE is as great as people say it is. And I think it looks absolutely fantastic on the Technics. In 1-2 weeks I will know:)
I have long wondered how good a fully modified 1210 is. Now I know:) My 1210M5G is now completed and the newly bought DL-103R is also run in and the Oyaide MJ-12/ BR-One is in full effect.
I had my father over for a demo yesterday. He has been a hifi enthusiast all his life. He said that my system had so much synergy that it might be the best he has ever heard.
If someone say that a fully modified 1210 misses involvement or PRaT, the something is very wrong. My system is SO dynamic, tight, airy and full of involvement that I now don't have any desire for another deck. I don´t even have desire to upgrade my fully modified KAB arm. I think I have just the right amount of fluid in the KAB Damper, too. I have experimented alot with the amount of fluid and now it is just right in my setup..
My ProAc Response D25 is so fast, tight, deep and open and I totally understand why ProAc is such a sought after speaker.
Yesterday I bought to new LPs. Jazz at the Pawnshop and the last album from Royksopp feat. Robyn. Fantastic:):) Now I'm waiting for my first 45 RPM LP (Hugh Masekela "Hope").
I want to thank many in here for guiding and tips, espesially you Marco. I can now consentrate on listening to music, with my toes tapping and with a big smile on my face:)
Well you say that now........Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKemp
:)
I thought I was more or less finished - then the Isonoes feet, Tecniboots, FR arm and the MN platter.
Now the MN bearing has taken my interest........
Hehe, yes I know what you mean:) I have the MN Bearing and the Isonoe. I will order the TecniBoots shortly, but they are cheap. But I have no desire to change anything right now. In the future, different thing. My cartridge after the Denon DL-103R might be a London Decca Super Gold, but I´m speaking two years minimum.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMusic
Chris, 'Hope' is one fantastic record, Stimela being the standout but the whole record is just bleeding brilliant.
The Techniboots are stupid value for money. Go buy some right awayQuote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKemp
I barely believed what I heard when I put them on
They do make the deck look 'clumpy' but who cares if more music comes through !
I shall be trying Isonoes and the 'boots on other kit
Great to hear! I can't wait to listen to it:)Quote:
Originally Posted by twotone
Received the 200g, 45 rpm today and listened to Stimela. By far the best I've ever heard and my number one demo album. It blows the CD version by a good margin, too!Quote:
Originally Posted by twotone
Top stuff Chris, enjoy it :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKemp
There was a guy on one of the forums (might have been here) who claimed that Masekela was basically rubbish and the Hope was crap after I had posted about how good it was.
BTW, Nomali is fantastic too.
How's the 1210 upgrade path going. Did you get the ETP?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKemp
No, I have not yet made up my mind about the ETP platter. The price of the ETP is making me wonder if I should upgrade to a better phono stage instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by allthingsanalogue
That's my problem with the ETP. There isn't a try before you buy scheme available anymore.
"That' my problem with the ETP. There isn't a try before you buy scheme available anymore. "
Come on folks you know that it's the best that money can buy!!!
Different type of upgrade, Chris... Both will alter the sound in different (beneficial) ways. Remember, however, that no phono stage, no matter how good it is, can make up for any information lost at SOURCE.
The source, of course, or if you like, the 'business end' of proceedings, is where the turntable is spinning records, and the arm and cartridge reading musical information contained on them. Employing the use of an ETP platter at that point will allow for extracting greater levels of musical information and delivering it in a more involving and satisfying way to you, the listener.
No phono stage can do that, as its role in proceedings comes into play further down in the chain. Therefore, when it comes to T/Ts, it's SOURCE FIRST all the way! ;)
Marco.
No, I don't. I have never heard one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
I sense a wee holiday to the south of France in the making...... ;)
Marco.
Mike may have more success if someone in the UK had a "loan" platter that they could send out.
This works well on another forum that I am a member of. The person wanting to borrow it is responsible for the postage both ways.
This is all very true:) But I do have to wait for the funds. A great idea, yes, if Mike would provide a ETP loaner platter that could be sent around for testing before buying. That would help me alot:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Sounds like a good idea to me! The benefits for Mike would be along the lines of 'speculate to accumulate', which is something many good businesses do with their products :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyH
Mike, what about it?
Marco.
That may be a valid opinion, but it is NOT a fact. Folk that have an investment in the platter are not going to do anything else but enthuse. You used to have a distributer in the UK who was extremely helpful in loaning bits of kit which allowed potential customer to make informed decisions. I purchased my own bearing with that safety net in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
Clive
PS: I'm very happy with the Mike New Bearing
The ETP only offers a slight improvement over the original Al/Cu bonded platter IMHO. The cost for that improvement was too great, I didn't feel I had SPPV so I kept my original platter (which I think is excellent by the way).
Yes I hear what you are all saying, However there are a host of commercial reasons why not to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
What if the platter gets lost in the post or is not packed correctly by the last evaluator.
Proper care of the platter by the current user.
How long does the person have to decide?
The elapsed time between deliveries to the various prospects.
What comitment do the various people make to buy??
I am not saying that I am not interested. I just need to think about it, especially as I am selling platters at a reasonable rate.
The other forum I use has specific rules for this.
Insured & tracked postage.
Loan period a maximum of two weeks. Not sure what happens about damage. I guess if it was done in the post, insurance claims would be required.
Interesting. Of course any manufacturer making a platter is likely to be trying to get the best solution - and it costs what it costs. So if ETP is a bit better than the Al/CU one and the ETP is a reasonable cost for what it is, the fact that the additional cost of upgrading from one good platter (Al/Cu) to another good platter (ETP) is "not worth it" is not the fault of the new better platter. Starting from scratch, without the original investment in the first upgrade, the ETP is presumably fair value. At least, whether or not it is fair value has everything to do with how well it performs, and the price compared with production and distribution cost, and nothing to do with what another upgrade platter does or costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
Regarding the "not much difference" I think this may be due to some confusion about what a platter does. I have corresponded privately with Cagey about this (he initially found no difference, or negligible difference between funk 1 and strata), treating him to a brief history of Pink Triangle product development, and the "science" or theories at least behind the evolution from acrylic to achromat to strata. A lot of the issue is that the "thing" (platter and mat if there is one) is really record support and termination. They are an integrated function. Pink Triangle pioneered this by having a platter which did both jobs, instead of termination being the mat, and support being the platter. But what works goes beyond just getting the platter/mat right - and depends on how the turntable itself deals with waste energy from the stylus.
So, if your mat is the termination and doing a good job, all that is left for the platter mechanically is to support the mat and record - and 2 quite different platters might do that equally well, or similarly well. With a different mat there may be more difference in the platters(or no mat - I had a feeling ETP could be - maybe should be - used naked)
I gather the bit of Pink Triangle history has helped Cagey get things working well in his system after a hesitant start. ;)
Richard I'm going to be blunt. I couldn't give a $hit about how much something costs to make, as a company you have to suck it up and spend money to develop new products, it's as simple as that. I'm a consumer, if I don't think something offers me value I don't buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpinkman
There's also the issue of resonance and damping, things which some platters are better designed to address than others. In terms of mats, or no mat, as the case may be, you're right that the ETP sounds excellent, used 'au naturel'. It also has a label recess cut out for that purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpinkman
However, I achieved even better results by using the ETP in conjunction with a Nagaoka crystal (glass) mat, as shown here:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/O8a6fh.jpg
I bought the mat from Paul (Reffc), and he describes it's design and benefits here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-Turntable-Mat
The combination of the above (along with one of Mark, YNWaN's, magnetic record clamps) produces a stunningly good sound, where real synergy appears to be at work. Highly recommended, and to my ears, on my T/T, significantly better than any other mat/platter combo I've used to date! :cool:
Marco.
So a glass platter may be better than the ETP? ;)
Lol.... Who knows? I doubt it, as the success of the ETP's design will partly be down to how the materials that are used [Delrin or a derivative thereof, perhaps some other form of thermoplastic] allow the platter to 'behave', sonically. The specialised crystal (totally non-resonant) glass mat, designed by Nagaoka, seems to form a formidable partnership with the ETP.
'Normal' mats, especially the awful rubber ones often supplied by T/T manufacturers, absorb a lot of the musical information stored on records, which casts a veil over the sound and muddies transients.
The principle behind the Nagaoka crystal mat is that energy which is normally wasted, by being sunk into the mat (acting as a damper), is instead retained within the cantilever/generator assembly of the cartridge, thus otherwise lost musical information is retained, producing a clearer, more open and much more detailed sound.
Certainly, in listening tests, when other mats I've got here (Blue Horizon, Achromat, felt and rubber mats) are used, switching to the Nagaoka instead is akin to drawing the curtains open in a dull room, and letting the sunshine in! Indeed, such is the level of sonic improvement gained, that it makes all other mats I've used sound 'broken' :)
Marco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Having tried numerous mats with the ETP platter (Oyaide, Achromat, Sound Dead Steel, felt and rubber) I would agree with Marco that the Nagaoka glass mat works very well with the ETP.
John
This was exactly my experience when switching to the resomat. Albeit on a standard platter. Have you used the resomat Marco?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Yeah, but that was last month. :eyebrows: