Marco's cleaning process with new vinyl, using an RCM

Quoted from a email i recieved.

and that took about 15 hours to dry!


:scratch:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/attac...6&d=1401664312and that took about 15 hours to dry!

Hi Marco

What brushes do you use as there are so many options out there to choose from?

Thanks
Martin

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Originally Posted by Marco

Indeed, and of course it's important to remember that, because of that, the levels of static and dust experienced will vary depending upon the environment one inhabits :)

For reference, here's the process I use for cleaning new records (bearing in mind that I use a VPI RCM):

1) Ensure that one's hands, together with the platter mat of the VPI machine, are spotlessly clean before handling records, and also for placing the first record on the platter for cleaning. Fit the nozzle, used in the drying process, reserved specifically for cleaning new records, and prepare the VPI brush for use, also reserved solely for the same purpose. Ensure that both are spotlessly clean before beginning the cleaning process.

Yes, to avoid the contamination of new records, I have separate brushes and nozzles for cleaning both new and used vinyl! ;)

2) Switch on RCM, and whilst the platter is in motion, slowly 'drizzle' the cleaning solution (which I make up myself), in small amounts, onto the surface of the record, ensuring even coverage.

3) Switch off RCM, and in a circular motion, with the pristine clean brush, reserved solely for cleaning new records, gently 'work' the liquid into the record grooves, ensuring that the entire surface of the record is coated in the cleaning solution. Then allow it to penetrate into the grooves for about 10 seconds and loosen any dirt or mould release agent, located deep within the grooves, which may remain as a by-product of the vinyl manufacturing process.

4) Switch RCM back on, and whilst holding the brush vertically over the record surface, press it gently into the record grooves, as the platter is in motion, and keep it there for a two or three revolutions, allowing the brush to lift up any 'crud' that shouldn't be there, and allow it to accumulate underneath the bristles.

5) Lift the brush off of the record, and whilst the platter is still in motion, place the drying nozzle over the accumulated cleaning solution, containing the removed debris (invisible to the naked eye), switch on the vacuum cleaner and proceed to 'hoover up' all of the solution until the record is bone dry and sparkling clean. Leave the record on the platter just for a few seconds to allow it to 'air dry' before turning it over and repeating the whole cleaning process for 'Side B'.

6) Once done, [this is where the Zerostat gun comes in], there is usually a small build of static, as a result of the felt strips, fitted to the drying nozzle, passing over the record surface and making light contact with it, during the drying process. Therefore, simply 'zap' the record surface once with the Zerostat gun, thereby discharging it from any static, lift the record off of the platter and pop it into an anti-static record sleeve.

Job done! The record is now pristine clean, totally static-free, and ready for use. It will also stay that way for a very long time, unless mishandled :cool:

The same process is used for cleaning second-hand records (using the dedicated brush and nozzle for that purpose), although depending on how dirty the records are, this could affect steps 3) and 4), where more effort may be required to loosen off any 'crud', in order that it is removed thoroughly.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by ekymetal

Does this method remove static? lol:eek:

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Oh yes. It removes absolutely everything! :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by high.spirits

Hi Marco

What brushes do you use as there are so many options out there to choose from?

Thanks
Martin

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Hi Martin,

I've continued to use the one that came with my VPI 16.5 RCM. The bristles on it are very stiff, which during cleaning, is essential for deep penetration of the record grooves. Highly recommended! You can buy spare VPI brushes from Analogue Seduction, although unfortunately they aren't cheap.

Hope that helps :)

Marco

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Martin,

I've continued to use the one that came with my VPI 16.5 RCM. The bristles on it are very stiff, which during cleaning, is essential for deep penetration of the record grooves. Highly recommended! You can buy spare VPI brushes from Analogue Seduction, although unfortunately they aren't cheap.

Hope that helps :)



Marco

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Hi Marco,I have the same VPI machine as yourself and do use the VPI brush that was supplied with it. However a tip from a friend, who also uses a VPI, suggested using a piece of draught excluder brush, the type you fix to the bottom of a door! I have the aluminium strip with brush attached. You can cut pieces to the length you require and you get quite a lot out of a strip.
The brush I find is perfect and in fact I use it a lot more than the VPI brush. Works very well.

SPPV extremely good if you look at the price of brushes :)

Excellent tip, James - I like it and will look into it further :thumbsup:

Marco.

I've tried all sorts of brushes and things like brushes including paint pads and have never been satisfied. As for the draught excluder, well that's the stuff that the brush that comes with the Moth RCM is made of. I think that it's too stiff until it's been thoroughly soaked in the fluid. I was never happy with it, fearing that it may be causing damage. Bought a VPI brush to use instead.

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Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo

I've tried all sorts of brushes and things like brushes including paint pads and have never been satisfied. As for the draught excluder, well that's the stuff that the brush that comes with the Moth RCM is made of. I think that it's too stiff until it's been thoroughly soaked in the fluid. I was never happy with it, fearing that it may be causing damage. Bought a VPI brush to use instead.

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The draught excluder brush I use is less stiff than the VPI brush. What is really good is the fact you can rummage round loads of DIY stores and get the exact stiffness you want.

Mine has longer bristles than the VPI and is more flexible so it gets into the grooves better.

That's good to know.

Thanks guys very useful information.

I will have a look at some of our local DIY stores and may buy a VPI brush for reference.

Thanks again
Martin

In my experience, using the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and a fluid with the correct low surface tension that actively flows into the grooves is the best way to go. The brush needs to by less hard than the vinyl.

Failing a brush, then a micro-fibre cloth should be used.

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Originally Posted by PaulStewart

In my experience, using the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and a fluid with the correct low surface tension that actively flows into the grooves is the best way to go. The brush needs to by less hard than the vinyl.

Failing a brush, then a micro-fibre cloth should be used.

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That's why I use a piece of draught excluder brush. Softer than vinyl and just the right amount of flexibility for the job.

Some super tips on here folks!!
I am due in for an op in a day or 2 and have been getting together the germs of an idea to make my own RCM
An old Columbia wind up gramaphone and a modified wet and dry hoover , and a Knosti ,and away to go:mental:

Microfibre cloth good idea I will give it a try, need to make some solution up too !

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Originally Posted by PaulStewart

In my experience, using the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and a fluid with the correct low surface tension that actively flows into the grooves is the best way to go. The brush needs to by less hard than the vinyl.

Failing a brush, then a micro-fibre cloth should be used.

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Paul just cleaned a couple of LPs with your right stuff cleaning fluid and I am impressed it is very nice
I didn't use any distilled water rinsing after just the fluid in both directions vacuum then dry for 10 mins
Do you recommend rinsing after cleaning ?

Alan

I've used Paul's fluid for a while now, never rinsed.

Best I've tried so far.

+1 (with bells on). IMO, there is no equal! :)

Marco.

Hi All,

Glad you like "The Right One" fluid, Alan no don't rinse, there is no need to and as far as I can tell there is more chance of static returning with rinsing. As i posted in Trade Impressions, I now have stock of the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and the natural fibre dry brush too. The are in stores.ebay.co.uk/rebirthofthecool but PM me andthere is a deal for AoS members on these as well as the fluid.

Cheers

Yes this is deffo the best record cleaning fluid bar none, well done chief! :)

Was wondering why the label says " make sure the record is fully dry before playing..."?
/Mike

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Originally Posted by AlfaGTV

Was wondering why the label says " make sure the record is fully dry before playing..."?
/Mike

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Mike, quite a few people use the fluid for hand cleaning with micro fibre cloths, in fact we supply the stuff in a kit, with a micro fibre cloth to Reckless Records which they sell to their customers. If the record has not been fully dried then any dust falling on it *could* form a sludge and set in the grooves. This is highly unlikely but with these things, you have to cover every base.

In fact any residue left after cleaning, unless it was enough to pool, would fully evaporate in a few seconds.

Cheers

The only place I find any damp residue after cleaning is at the very end of the dead wax where the vacuum misses a bit but a few wafts in the air usually clears it.

Okay, that makes some sense! ;) Are you saying a microfibre cloth has the necessary length of fibres to reach into the groove? And of course not leave any residue?

/Mike

I don't think any brush has fibres small enough to reach the bottom of the groove. All brushes can do is remove surface dust IMHO.

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Originally Posted by PaulStewart

As i posted in Trade Impressions, I now have stock of the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and the natural fibre dry brush too. The are in stores.ebay.co.uk/rebirthofthecool but PM me andthere is a deal for AoS members on these as well as the fluid.

Cheers

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Is the natural fiber brush only for dry dusting? I have the nylon one for my PRC4, but always wonder if there's something better - I suppose not, since all the brush does is ensure the fluid gets in the groove.

I wonder how the natural fiber brush would compare to my old Decca CF brush that I've been using for yonks?

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Originally Posted by jaym481

Is the natural fiber brush only for dry dusting? I have the nylon one for my PRC4, but always wonder if there's something better - I suppose not, since all the brush does is ensure the fluid gets in the groove.

I wonder how the natural fiber brush would compare to my old Decca CF brush that I've been using for yonks?

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Hi Jay,

I only reccomend the natural fibre brushes for dry cleaning. Like you I used a CF brush for many years, but when I was at Loricraft when we were offered one to rebadge we also heard about CF damaging records and in one case it was alleged that a carbon fibre that had become jammed in the grove of a record had chipped a stylus. Now I was never sure this was true, but CF is hard enough to do this, so we looked around for a soft alternative that still wipe of dust etc. The natual fibre one was the best I found and in normal use, i.e. just whiskingb off dirt, did not seem to rebuild static after several uses following a wet clean.

Funny you say that Paul but one of the fibres from my carbon fibre brush came off and stuck in a groove. I had the devil of a time getting it out again and nearly missed it. fortunately I inspect them under a high power lamp after doing it.

I use a goat's hair brush, best I've found so far.

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Originally Posted by PaulStewart

Hi All,

Glad you like "The Right One" fluid, Alan no don't rinse, there is no need to and as far as I can tell there is more chance of static returning with rinsing. As i posted in Trade Impressions, I now have stock of the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and the natural fibre dry brush too. The are in stores.ebay.co.uk/rebirthofthecool but PM me andthere is a deal for AoS members on these as well as the fluid.

Cheers

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OK Thanks Paul
Did a couple more today and the results are excellent thanks

Alan

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Originally Posted by struth

Funny you say that Paul but one of the fibres from my carbon fibre brush came off and stuck in a groove. I had the devil of a time getting it out again and nearly missed it. fortunately I inspect them under a high power lamp after doing it.

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That's the scenario Grant, round comes the ultra hard carbon fibre and bags into the stylus and even if it doesn't damage the diamond, it could be ripped out and damage the groove.

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Originally Posted by Ali Tait

I use a goat's hair brush, best I've found so far.

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The natural fibre brushes I sell are the goat's hair ones that were sold as Loricraft/Garrard

I am using a £6.99 facial natural brush from Boot`s works like a charm ;)

Probably the same one I'm using. :-)

And what do you guys use for your vinyl? :D

LOL

Not sure about a brush not getting into the groove. The end of a fine hair on a brush is smaller than the diamond stylus. surely?

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Originally Posted by Macca

LOL

Not sure about a brush not getting into the groove. The end of a fine hair on a brush is smaller than the diamond stylus. surely?

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The Loricraft type brushes have a width that is less than that of the groove so the do go into it, as do most carbon fibre ones. That's why it is so important to have a materiel less hard than the vinyl.

Would have to be pretty small to get to the bottom of the groove, as that's where the majority of the dust/dirt would be I'd have thought.

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

And what do you guys use for your vinyl? :D

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Ali Tait

Would have to be pretty small to get to the bottom of the groove, as that's where the majority of the dust/dirt would be I'd have thought.

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By and large you need to get the fluid below the top of the groove so it can spread into them. On the other point if you look at thr grooves under a microscope, a lot of the dirt is actually held in the groove walls, not just at the bootom.

Yep, I imagine dry brushing would not get rid of this.

It was always my understanding the the fluid did the work. The brush is just to make sure it gets into the grooves.

Yes, But that's not what I'm talking about, I mean brushes used before playing a record.

For the uninitiated. An excellent video from Mark Baker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUbC2ANXRqY

Yes, he uses L'Art Du Son, but he doesn't have mushrooms growing off his records.

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Originally Posted by jaym481

It was always my understanding the the fluid did the work. The brush is just to make sure it gets into the grooves.

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The brush does not go in the grooves, nor does it have to or should it. See video just posted.

Brushes are so 20th century Welcome to the 21st century

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkfiuh5kHhU

Interesting video Scott, factually it leaves a little to be desired however. To start at the end of the process, there is little better than cold air, unless it has been negatively ionised for promoting static, you might have seen desert lightning and the like. Secondly, I don't think there is any suggestion that the idea is for the brush to reach to the bottom of the groove. The idea is to get the fluid into the top of the groove and spread it evenly. Capillary action combined with the correct wetting agent will carry and indeed force the fluid to the bottom of the grooves, in fact research has shown that the absorbent dry nature of a lot of the dust particles will mean that fluid, with the correct degree and type of wetting agent will easily travel throughout the groove. Likewise to go back to the question of static, a properly designed fluid will be anti static and will not build up static on the record.

Here are some microscope pics of the same record before and after cleaning with a Loricraft machine

Before
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attac...2&d=1418401919

After
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attac...3&d=1418401936

These were made independently of either Loricraft or myself and the whole video is on the net. I doubt it is possible for any RCM to do better than this.

Also, there is some discussion as to the effect of ultrasonic bombardment on vinyl with some thinking that molecules must be stripped away by the process. I have seen no published data to the contrary. On the other hand we can show that using "The Right One" fluid after 100 cleaning cycles on a Loricraft PRC4 there were no deleterious effects and after 1000 wetting and drying cycles to a strip of recording vinyl there was no de-vinylising.

Yes brushes are indeed 20th century and so are quality vintage HiFi, the LP record, and the electric guitar all things that make music great.

Cheers

Trade members touting their wares should be in the "trade section" so visit it guys, nice one! :)

WTF who is this? :lol:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/attac...3&d=1408186254

I'm not touting for business David I'm just refuting a statement made about one technology touted by someone who appears to have an axe to grind, in my opinion brushes and vacuums rule :) That's my profile pic mate, bit out of date as I've now lost three and a half stone. My listeners haven't complained though in fact I have been asked for a signed print..... Or was that a signed cheque :lol:

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Originally Posted by PaulStewart

I'm not touting for business David I'm just refuting a statement made about one technology touted by someone who appears to have an axe to grind, in my opinion brushes and vacuums rule :) That's my profile pic mate, bit out of date as I've now lost three and a half stone. My listeners haven't complained though in fact I have been asked for a signed print..... Or was that a signed cheque :lol:

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Wasn't meaning you chief! I rarely visit the AOS these days as hounded off for being over enthusiastic which was ill perceived as pushy salesmanship!

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

Wasn't meaning you chief! I rarely visit the AOS these days as hounded off for being over enthusiastic which was ill perceived as pushy salesmanship!

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Ahh! that's why you didn't answer the PM I sent you :) I'm turning Safari off now as I have a show to record on this Mac

Cheers