Might be worth taking that up with Mike ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by krugdoktor
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Might be worth taking that up with Mike ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by krugdoktor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
Nice one. You'll be amazed how much better your tecchie will sound. Also the MN ETP platter is easy to fit as it has two bolt holes for easy positioning. I understand that the Funk Firm does not have these bolts and can be difficult to remove.
This is mine pictured.
http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/x...atterabove.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
l am guessing you are guessing Marco?:lol: It is still alot of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpinkman
Both the original platter and the MN ETP platter fit snugly on the MN bearing in my set-up.
The MN platter is a snug fit and can take some time to position correctly, as explained my Mike New in the fitting instructions supplied with the ETP platter.
I was aware of the comments made Marco by Richard, but until the go ahead was given to say more I prefer to stay silent. The other info now in the public domain was another matter, though in hindsight I think saying nothing about it was probably the better option and I wish I had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Regards Neil
Of course it is - no question - but it is substantially less, I suspect, than one would be from the other manufacturers mentioned!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzan
Anyone fancy contacting, say, Linn or SME and asking them the question, then reporting back?
Marco.
Rather pointless exercise as making 1 platter is bound to cost a small fortune, the figure of £300 mentioned elsewhere is also rather silly, if the platter sold for £650, £108.33 of that is VAT, the dealer needs a slice as well as the manufacturer, so I doubt there is much profit in making them, plus they don't sell in large volumes due to the size of the market for a niche product like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Michell Orbe platter kit - £449. 60mm thick carbon loaded acrylic includes a clamp.
Bearing - £99
http://www.turntableworld.co.uk/depa...grade-kit-p129
Including VAT
I wasn't talking about having a platter specially commissioned, dude, but rather one being sold from 'stock', which would otherwise have been supplied with a complete T/T.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
Linn, for example, do sell parts for the LP12 individually. I believe that a new plastic lid for one is around £300. Now that's what you call "mental"!! :mental:
More seriously, the point I'm making here is that there's still a notion considered by some that upgrades for the SL-1200/1210 aren't worth it, as it isn't a 'proper' turntable, in the way of, say, a Linn or an SME (utter bollocks), which is why I doubt you'd see anyone baulking at being quoted for a new platter, for one of those T/Ts, at least twice the amount (or probably more) of what a Funk Firm one costs for the Technics! ;)
I'm just putting things into a proper perspective. Therefore, I don't consider the cost of the Funk Firm platter "mental", but rather commensurate with the quality of the item itself and the cost of parts today in general for high-quality turntables.
Marco.
Nice one, Chris. Michell always were rather more 'real world' with their pricing!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Of course, economies of scale will also kick in here (including the fact that Michell have been a professional engineering company for decades and thus can produce everything they need 'in house'), and so there'll be substantial cost savings attached to that, together with more bearings and platters sold for Michell T/Ts, worldwide (simply because their T/Ts are more established in the marketplace), than either Mike New or Arthur K will manage for their products, resulting in much lower prices for the former, such as you have quoted... ;)
Marco.
. I'll talk to Arthur tomorrow. However i am fairly sure he wouldn't have considered the possibility that a part like a bearing would not be produced to fit standard parts like a platter. When brembo make an improved brake pad they make it to fit the existing disc and caliper. However, the death of Harry's friend in the storm is the greater priority atm. Understandably he is pretty cut up about it.
Indeed!
The Michell bearing is a very high quality item and I'm amazed that they can make it for a hundred quid.
Quote:
All Michell turntables currently employ a unique inverted bearing that locates the point of rotation above the center of gravity of the platter precisely at the height where the platter takes up the drive belt. This makes the platter/bearing a self-stabilising component that can not be provoked into rocking modes.
The precision bearing has a case-hardened steel shaft that is secured upright in an oil well, which is threaded into the subchassis from below. A massive bronze housing, precision-machined as a pair with the shaft, is attached to the platter via the integral stainless steel record spindle. A thrust ball sits on the flat top of the shaft centralized by an inverted cone in the top of the housing. This housing has a spiral machined into its inner bore to draw a high quality synthetic oil from the bath to the top of the bearing shaft as the housing rotates with the platter. An off-center hole is drilled from top to bottom of the shaft allowing the trapped oil to return to the oil wel for re-circulationl. This unique oil-pumping mechanism results in low friction and wear, and in low rumble and noise. It was designed to last a lifetime.
That's certainly not the angle I am coming at it from Marco, I am simply speculating as to whether it could be done for 300 quid and still offer a significant improvement over the stock or modified Technics platters. Using your own logic, I'm am sure most Linn owners consider the upgrades available for their kit to be good value too and would baulk at buying a cheaper alternative as they'd be afraid of reducing the brands caché. IMO it's the same thing, just higher up the value ladder. Let me ask you this, if someone were to produce a cheaper alternative and it performed better than your current platter, would you buy it? If so, how would you justify your current argument?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
First of all, Dave, you weren't in my thoughts in the slightest when I made my comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
You should know me by now and that I don't give a damn about cachet, brand image/prestige value, or whatever you want to call it. The fact is, if another platter for the Technics was produced which fundamentally and comprehensively outperformed the Funk one I currently use, and it fitted my MN bearing properly, then I would buy it, regardless of the whether it was cheaper or more expensive, as the only thing that matters to me, ultimately, is sonic performance.
Price or 'cachet' will always be of secondary importance!
Marco.
Just checking ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I'm surprised you had to ask :rolleyes:
Marco.
So you have tried the MN platter then Marco?
You were getting a little evangelical, I was beginning to worry that you might wheel out a full blown gospel choir at any moment... :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I haven't tried his ETP one, but of course owned the high-mass composite one for quite a while, which to my ears the Funk Firm (MKI) platter outperformed. Of course it's possible that the MN ETP platter might be better than what I'm using now, and if either you or Mike want to send me one to try, then I'll do so and report the results. However, when you're extremely satisfied with your T/T and/or system, then there's no compulsion to fiddle :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
Marco.
Lol... Gotta make sure that 'da message' stays out there as much as possible ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
Marco.
I'm using a MN Bearing and Funk Platter (let's call it the Mk. I) with Funk Achromat, bonded with Vaseline. The combination sounds superb and all the tapers fit as with the original Technics platter.
Ditto. It's a perfectly synergistic match, as one would expect it to be, considering that the mat and platter were designed by the same manufacturer to work in unison, and as a pairing, to sonically optimise the SL-1200/1210 :)
Marco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
l will have one of them for me SL1200 then bruv:lol: Save me some wonga.
lol, you need the bearing first chiefQuote:
Originally Posted by Tarzan
the MN platter is on the way to the UK selling via MCRU very soon! we had been discussing it for quite some time but never finalized anything
Good news, dude. The greater the availability of different upgraded platters, the better! :)
Marco.
I've spoken with Arthur - and noted that I am not his marketing department. However - he is too busy with urgent matters, so asked me to post for him. I thought of pointing out that I have a day job too, but what are mates for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpinkman
He was not aware that Mike New made a bearing which was not a standard fit , and was a little disappointed that those who had encouraged him to develop "specials" for the SL1200 had not made him aware of that. He also repeated my comment that it is not normal engineering practice to make a "custom replacement" which needs to fit other parts, in a non-standard size. I don't want to get factional, but it would be normal practice if you design a part which needs to fit another part (bearing needing to fit a platter) to draw attention to the fact that it is not standard - ie "this upgraded bearing is only designed to work with our own platters and may not fit standard platters or those manufactured to the same specifications as the standard platter".
However, we are where we are. As far as Arthur is aware the Funk 1 and Funk 2 hubs are identical. He sent a standard technics platter to the engineers and asked them to copy that both times. He is sending a Funk 2 hub to Martin T to try on a Mike New bearing for him. He is also planning to contact Mike New for details (measurements) for his bearing, so that, if necessary he can offer a Funk platter with a Mike New bearing fit. However, he has some reservations about this general approach
He is also planning to launch a Funk bearing for the SL1200 which will incorporate the now famous Pink Triangle saphire thrust plate. Spitting teeth here, and noting that at this rate I am going to end up a Techie owner, I would note that this might be a worthwile improvement. However - critically - that bearing will be designed to be a universal fit - that is, it will fit Funk standard, Technics standard and all standard fit aftermarket variants. He does not consider it apporpriate, and I strongly share his views - to go building a funk bearing which is designed as a custom fit only for a funk platter. Were that necessary or beneficial for engineering reasons, he would expect to make it clear in all his marketing material that the funk bearing was only for use with a funk platter.
In spite of those reservations, and principles regarding parts upgrade design (ie they should be universal) I have persuaded him that if necessary he will produce a "Mike New" special of the funk 2 platter, possibly at a small price premium to reflect the custom engineering required (ie he can't just have one product on the shelf - and in view of the size of the market, and erratic order pattern will have to have hubs built to order)
Of course, if you all just went out and bought a nice bouncy Pink Triangle, you wouldnt have these problems, and I could get on with counting beans, and listening to morons from HMRC :steam:
The other alternative has been missed, buy a mike new platter to go with your mike new bearing, no compatibility issues guaranteed!
I have spoken with Arthur and will test out, for fit, his hub on my MN Bearing as soon as I receive it. This is a favour for Arthur as he does not have a MN Bearing.
With all due respects this is absolutely total crap. I have a number of customers who are using the Funk platter with no problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L
I have also recieved three private emails from users who do not want to be named, who have had their platter totally stuck onto their bearing tapers. The removal process has been rather radical. The reason for this is that the platters are not fitted with a central boss which carries the taper.
Acrylic like any other plastic has a high co-efficient of expansion. I believe that what happens is this:
As the platter warms up the taper expands and very slightly moves down the taper it then cools (in the evening) and the taper is expanded, this process is continued until the platter becomes totally jammed onto the spindle taper. As the platters are not supplied with threaded holes for removal as mine are, the problem is greatly magnified.
When I designed the bearing some three and a half years ago now; my toolmakers who machine and precision grind the shaft used a Zeis shadow graph microscope to very accurately determine the taper, of the two samples I gave them it was decided that 6deg was the most like intended taper!!!! They both varied by a small amount.
If there are any problems with Funk platters fitting to my bearings it is probably because the internal clearance bore around which the pulse generator fits is not deep enough, I have designed my bearing to maximise the material support at the top where it matters.
I would like to point out to all; that of the 250 users of my bearing the very large majority use the standard SL1200 platter which fits onto my bearing with no problems!!!! The problem IMO has nothing to do with the taper.
This is the first I have heard of this problem from any of the 250 users of my Bearing, some of which as mentioned above use the Funk platter.
If the makers of the platter care to contact me and perhaps supply me with the details of the clearances they machine to, we can resolve this situation to the mutual satisfaction of all.
Excellent news, chaps. I shall look forward to following progress with this matter in due course :)
Marco.
With the launch of Flamenca / F6 in Denver and SL1200 mk II and factor in the season has kicked in pretty hard, explains my being off forum.
We got a call yesterday from someone, who chose not to introduce themselves asking after the platter.
We have been led to believe from a single individual that the platter does not fit the Mike New bearing…which as Mike has pointed out makes little sense. This is further supported by the many users of Funk’s mk I platter which is no different as regards fit to our mk II.
Still, in the interest of being honest, we replied that as we don’t have one, we replied there might be an issue for Mike New bearings. I won’t say any more but
this post is to thank Richard who has been working hard to prevent mis-information and similarly to Mike New, who has stepped in to clarify various points.
Despite no info from Funk on the new platter to date on the website we find ourselves in the embarrassing position of being out of stock and as I’m pushed for time right now, I’m leaving it to Richard to post a couple of photos.
You’ll see that it is quite different from the original. It is a complex assembly of a hub and an outer “platter” that has Achromat bonded to it.
The end result is technically quite impressive. For more info, please visit the website tomorrow as at long last it is being updated overnight.
Arthur
OK
AK has asked me to post his pictures cos he doesn't have photobucket. I should note that in addition to "project pimp PT" and getting the boards out of the Integral so Owen can fix them for me, ITS YOUR BLOODY ROUND when I am down in Sussex next :lol:
New Funk platter - the arm is the FX2 prototype I borrowed - NOT a production version. The anti-skate is on the wrong side, making it tricky to use on a techie and REALLY scary on a bouncy like my Pink Triangle
[IMG]http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/...ps37d15515.jpg[/IMG]
And again - different angle - same machine
[IMG]http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/...ps702f322c.jpg[/IMG]
While we're on the subject, since you are shamelessly flaunting that Technics cartridge Arthur, do you have a spare body, cos I might be able to get a stylus assembly???
And finally - the new platter hub. As you will note Mike this is machined from metal, so you shouldn't get the acrylic issues you referred to with this one.
[IMG]http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5a8867c2.jpg[/IMG]
Hopefully this won't have spoilt your planned review Neil, but improved it by correcting some mistaken assumptions. And Dave, given the radical differences in materials and approach, just buying a Mike New platter instead is not really an answer. Mike has made it clear, as an excellent engineer, that he is happy for his products to compete on the strength of their design and engineering qualities, and not restrictive trade practices - which is what I would have expected of a good engineer.:thumbsup:
Phew - back to the beans :cool:
Since this seems to have developed into a sales thread for the funk platter, the mike new platter will soon be for sale at MCRU :ner:
MN bearing/MN platter, a match made in australia :)
Arthur & Richard - looks very nice. Is the 'Pimp My Deck' lettering on the outer rim optional? As I said, I'll test the hub out for you as soon as I receive it.
Regarding the Funk Mk. I platter, I remember Mike New's advice to use a little Vaseline on the spindle. Since then, I've never had trouble removing the platter when I've so needed.
Certainly no mistakes or assumptions on my part. I reported the problem/issue/incompatibility to Arthur as soon as I discovered it. I have a Mike New bearing no doubt identical to Martin's and anyone else's and the Funk Mk2 inner hub platter does not seat to it properly, there is a very pounced and unacceptable movement /rock. Using grease or Vaseline does not change that one bit as I tried that. The Funk MK2 fits an original Technics bearing with no issue and I have several here including a Vantage audio modified one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpinkman
I think it a shame this information was revealed in the way it was to a member of the public then reported here on AOS and not dealt with privately by Funk originally -before telling Audio Al.- by asking for the platter back and I would have been quite happy to send my Mike New bearing to Funk as well so they could see for themselves.
I am at the minute left sitting here feeling my integrity is being challenged re what I have honestly reported in private to Funk and I am not happy at the way it has been dealt with so far in the public domain.
I stand by my comments both in private to Arthur and here on AOS.
Neil
NeilQuote:
Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L
I won't repost the pictures, or poor Dave will have a fit! I am sure no malice was intended by anybody, and Mike and Arthur will be grateful that they have been made aware of the issue and are in a position to cooperate to resolve it if necessary for the benefit of all Technics owners as a whole. Whilst as a Pink Triangle owner I am completely indifferent to it, I am sure the Technics owners look forward to your "uber" review no less eagerly than before, and I trust it will be a valuable addition to the Techipedia.
Best wishes
Richard
We are talking about maybe at a guess 0.00000000000000002% of the world population being concerned, thats possibly 20 people out of over 6 billion, I am not one of them. :)
Neil chill out you are a nice guy (well I think so anyway) and I like your site and your reviews too. :)
+1.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Looks like the size of the platter has been enlarged a little, perhaps to maximise the 'flywheel effect' - or is it just an optical illision? I agree with you, if I was to have one, it would need to be minus the 'go-faster lettering'. Anyway, I await your findings with interest!
Good fun this Techy pimping malarkey, innit? :D
Marco.
P.S Out of interest, is the new platter heavier, lighter or the same weight as the old one?
Maybe you can have your name put on? What would marco super dafteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee look like spinning at 33rpm I wonder? :lol:
AWESOME!! :D
Marco.
Never having seen or held the old one, I perhaps shouldn't say, but HEAVIER. Since, the old Funk platter was I believe, in effect, a PT platter for a Techie, the new platter is a good deal heavier. Hence the need for the PT to be modified to have heavier guage springs and aluminium levelling wedges to replace the standard acrylic ones. I know you're not interested in PT's but it changes the centre of mass for the suspension too, which is going to involve a rebalancing of the armboard weight, or possibly a repositioning of the springs to shift the centre of suspension. Aren't you glad you have a solid? However, having heard the bloody platter on a Techie , our friendship depends on you sorting the PT version out Mr K! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Even better would be to go full circle and have some strobe markings on it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
I happen to know Mr Funk is very keen on his go-faster stripes. I hope he reads these bloody threads cos I'm not looking forward to putting your suggestions to him personally. Catch him on a good day, would be my advice! ;)
No reason it can't be done. Plain is simple (although he'll sulk). Custom at a price. strobe dots - why? Put a disk on. And the QC issues - what happens if a very expensive bonded platter comes back with the strobe pattern slightly wrong? These are etched I believe... :cool:
Plain is - undoubtedly - best!
+1!
Keep.It.Simple.Stupid.
Marco.
The text would put me off ordering one. Sorry.
The AOS massive say. " FUNK OFF "
:D
If I were to buy one the lettering would be a big no no. The sight of that white lettering would be most irritating. So keep it simple.
OK
I have to agree. But you must remember this is a disco product not a HiFi product like a PT Anniversary :sofa:
Arthur has confirmed Funk can supply it in plain. I have also suggested he gets off his arse and posts his own messages, since the backlog of accounts work is piling ever higher, and this is the busy season
:ner:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpinkman
:wetkipper: