Thanks Peter/Will do Marco.Yes,it was caught very early so all looking good.
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Thanks Peter/Will do Marco.Yes,it was caught very early so all looking good.
Open mind? Well considering I'm using full-range Fostex in large boxes in my second system up here in Scotland,I don't think you can accuse me of being close-minded! Good as they are I still prefer the statics though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Nice one, mate :)Quote:
Yes,it was caught very early so all looking good.
Granted on the Fostex's, but forgive me, the above suggests the merest smidgeny hinty-poo of 'closed-mindedness', no? ;)Quote:
It's just that having had the statics so long,I could never go back to any kind of box speaker...
And I seem to recall you saying a similar thing about P/P amps, too...
My advice would be to reserve judgement until after you've visited. You never know, you might end up preferring a different set of compromises :cool:
Marco.
Well I do own two PP amps! I've heard some very fine PP amps,built with very little compromise,certainly with parts you would see in very few,if any,commercial offerings.Same with SE.Both can be excellent.Could I live with a PP amp? probably.It's just I ultimately prefer SE,in the same way you ultimately prefer PP.One I am looking forward to in particular at the forthcoming Eggborough meet is a PP 211 amp.Should be rather nice!
Think I'll have to pop along to Eggy....
Yes,saw your post Mike.Be good to meet up,especially since you missed the last one at the last minute!
Yep, Ali, that's certainly the state of play at the moment, but who knows what the future holds? ;)Quote:
It's just I ultimately prefer SE,in the same way you ultimately prefer PP.
Eggy? I'll probably pass this time in case I upset some of the 'old boys network' again! :eyebrows:
Marco.
no chance marco.. we are all thicker skinned than you would thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by Marco
there will be some good kit there...
I'm sure none of us would mind if you came..
i would like to hear your m3d'd deck and your new tannoys.. if you could get them there.
cheers steve
Hi Steve,
That's good to know! :)
When is it anyway, and are you going to advertise it here?
Marco.
i wonder if I will be able to get my OB's sorted for this? also, let me know if you still have a use for the Goodmans drivers Steve.
:)
I was wondering there was something discussed about Eggborough is this a hifi show on ,
there was an enthusiast show on the week after the Bristol show maybe it is similar.
someone was mentioning about a push pull 211 , i have listened extensively to Cary monoblocks similar to this , the 211 is one of the handful of valves that were actually a audio valve so the 211 can not be ignored as a possible holy grail,
the 845 i just heard the Cary cad 805 at shows and Unison research monoblocks, and Audion 845 monoblocks ,
i have a friend who had 2 amplifiers which came from a circus with huge transmitter type valves i think 4212 was the model of valve im just not sure on that.
,im sure the 813 valve is physically large ,
there is an interesting triode that i heard in a french Siemel amplifier which would be worth further investigation it is called a 6528a and made by Cetron Tungsol and Raytheon it is a similar family to the 6c33 and 6as7g and has the same base as a kt88 or a 6l6 it is capable of 16 to 18 watts from a single valve
It's a DIY enthusiasts event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Haystacks
That said, it's a very good event, and more than an eye (and ear) opener.
I've heard one of the speaker builds that will be shown/demonstrated, and the speakers in question put many commercial efforts to shame for attention to build detail. That, and they sound bloody fantastic. These are the Big Daddy Fonkens shown here http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1397
Well worth the effort to attend the 'fest.
Chris:smoking:
PS The folks there are very friendly too.
Yes,come along and watch my statics being vapourised in the attempt to dtive them with a direct-coupled 813 PP amp!
Wahey - entertainment sideshow too !Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Chris:lolsign:
NOT the ones I'm selling I hasten to add!
How many pairs of stats have you got Ali ?
Which ones are ear-marked for the fry up ?
Do we all need to wear protective clothing to witness said oncoming fry up ?
Does Eggborough Power Station Social Club carry CO2 extinguishers ?
This is beginning to sound like a meeting of PA (Pyromaniacs Anonymous).:eyebrows:
Chris:)
I'm coming into possession of a pair of Acorns,and these will be used for the fry-up! I also have a pair of ESL III's.
what date is the eggborough show on , and a technical one from leeds bradford airport how far and difficult
anyway more waffling about valves some of you smart boys out there should research the 6528-a this valve is not a sought after one yet and will provide double figure wattage similar to 6c33 ,6as7g,and the western electric 421a
i am not good at typing or getting up photos so try to take a look
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Haystacks
The Eggborough Show is on Sat 13th June.
Re the 6528A
I haven't tried it as yet, but I have tried its close relative the 6336A. Not as much gain but it does sound very nice indeed as an SE amp.
Steve
This is interesting: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROGERS-CADET-3...3A2%7C294%3A50
In fact so interesting, I'm also tempted to be very very naughty. We shall see.
But, I'm confused. How do you connect speakers to it?
They connect here:
Hmm - do you just wrap the speaker wire around the screws?
I would also be interested in views on whether this would be a good buy for a person who has never owned any valve equipment before. I know these have been recommended above, but further views would be appreciated, especially on this specific amp.
Yes or you could fit some small spade connectors to the bare wire....being careful for them not to touch the case of the amplifier.Quote:
Originally Posted by symon
The problem with vintage amplifiers is that parts may need replacing in them...resistors and capacitors can and do go off over time and in the worst cases can cause serious faults to occur, damage to speakers or even fires can happen. I have not heard the Cadet so I can't really comment on how good or bad they are but the main weakness in vintage kit is the pre-amplifier sections (this being an integrated it has one built in) they are usually coloured and lack transparency...not an issue if you are happy with a warm and cuddly sound. The other problem I can foresee with the Cadet is its low power. This means it will most likely struggle to drive a lot of modern speakers to loud volumes, I would imagine.Quote:
I would also be interested in views on whether this would be a good buy for a person who has never owned any valve equipment before. I know these have been recommended above, but further views would be appreciated, especially on this specific amp.
What speakers do you have, what size of room is it you have and what kind of music do you like ?
Vintage power amplifiers such as those from Leak would be better, having an excellent level of sound quality for their age. However again the power may also be an issue. You can match a modern pre-amplifier to a Leak power amp and get much better sound quality for your money.
The problem with this is that the price of vintage kit keeps going up in many cases IMHO the prices being asked are ridiculous (the Cadet being a good example at £50 fair enough but not £185) for the level of sound quality.
I am sorry to rain on your parade a bit but there are issues.
Neil, no need to apologise. You have answered my question in much better ways than I asked it.
Your opinion of the value is very useful.
I will come back again with a more detailed response to the questions you have asked.
No problem SymonQuote:
Originally Posted by symon
I was about to type some more but just wanted to see again what every one else has been saying.
The main problem with valve amplifiers is the power VS cost thing. It is cheaper to get more power with solid state (than it is with valves)and that does not mean poor quality sound. However I am a firm advocate of valve amplifiers if they are matched correctly to the system/room and music they will be used with.
Valve amplification has a quality to it that most (there are some that come close) solid state amplification can't match. There is a naturalness to it, reality of tone and a real three dimensional sound scape. Solid state IMHO just doesn't quite get there in all these areas. However if the speakers you use need power(as my Anthony Gallo's do need lots of power. I needed at least 75 watts, and for me this meant an expensive valve amplifier), you will need to look at a valve amplifier design that uses EL34/Kt88/kt66/5881/6550 (types of valves). These tend to be the valves that 25 to 50 watt valve amplifiers use. I like the sound of the first 4 but not so much the 6550.
Best value for money.... I would go for the Pure Sound A30 (Marco mentioned this amp earlier), Icon Audio stereo 40 or one of the Prima Luna amplifiers. These outside of the cheap and not so cheerful Chinese brigade (as many are a pile of crap as has also been stated) are the main contenders, for in and around £1000 ish (unless you can pick up an ex-demo or S/H one). For my money I think the A30 is the best but it only has 3 inputs and no tape output. You can improve it by changing to better 6SN7 valves, than the ones it come with. Having played about quite a bit with 6SN7's the ones I would recommend would more than likely be Tung-sol new reissues (however I need to know the answers to my questions to be sure of this).
Its to easy to present you with too much info and confuse the issue.
Some more questions.
How much of a budget do you have ?
Are you happy to tweak/modify or get some one to do this for you?
Do you want a warranty and piece of mind ?
Regards D S D L
The Puresound A30 can also be modified by our resident valve expert Anthony who can turn it into an AOS-specced beast of an amp. This is what I use.Quote:
Best value for money.... I would go for the Pure Sound A30
The Cadet III sells for silly money today, although I bought mine from the original owner in 1975 for £15, which would equate to around £100 now I suspect. Neil's right though, another 35 years under its belt and gawd knows how many bodgers later and it could be severely worn out and in need of fettling.
What ever's wrong with now vintage Crofty stuff? A Series V with Micro could be had for around £500 I think and it'll be new enough to enjoy now and not so expensive that Glenn himself couldn't work some further magic on it for not an unreasonable sum.
Regarding spade terminals - I think that Maplin do some small ones and things come up on ebay too for not much. Much better than wrapping wire round the screws...
While those amps may well be good VFM,IMHO the best value would be a (second-hand) WAD KEL84.You can pick one up for 200-250 or so.A very sweet and musical amp,giving 15 watts per channel from push-pull EL84's.Well known as a bit of a giant-killer.Don't think you can beat it as an introduction to valve amps,and indeed many never move on from it.
More than likely either way. Not everything vintage is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Nothing....but the early Croft stuff while having good sonics,was a bit flaky in the build quality stakes (not now I might add). Also my knowledge of Glenn's more recent work is not very good. I prefer to stick with talking about kit I know and have heard.Quote:
What ever's wrong with now vintage Crofty stuff? A Series V with Micro could be had for around £500 I think and it'll be new enough to enjoy now and not so expensive that Glenn himself couldn't work some further magic on it for not an unreasonable sum.
I think the biggest problem with Symon's question, is he has so far not given us a lot of info to go on...hence my questions. Also he may not want to embark on the soldering Iron road or get something that has to be TLC'd all the time to keep it going. Symon may just be an ordinary music lover who wants a safe high quality entry into valves. The type of product that will give him years of enjoyment, or launch him into a longterm passion for building/modifying kit....at the moment...I don't know....over to you Symon.
We need more information :)
Regards D S D L
Unfortunately not knowing what Symons speakers are this amp may not work with his speakers....despite it being good with others and having a great reputation(I have never heard or seen one in the flesh)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Regards D S D L
True,as you say,more info would be better,but I'd say the KEL will work with almost all mainstream speakers that don't have a silly load.It will even drive my ESL III's!
hehehe - alright, Neil, answers on their way. Just need a quick cigarette and to remind myself exactly what speakers I have!
No problem Symon :lol::lol::lol: and the rest of your kit too please.Quote:
Originally Posted by symon
Regards D S D L
Alright, here goes:
My main System:
Pioneer PD S703
Technics SL DD33
Quad 33
Quad 405
Acoustice Energy AE109s
Also have a TASCAM DA 20 and DA30 mkII, a Revox B215, and a MD player of some sort (can't remember and it's too hot to get up and look!) These aren't connected to anything at the moment but could be.
Planned changes/additions - a DAC (probably a Beresford DAC) and change the Technics for a Lenco GL75 with stock arm with a Shure M75 ED type 2 thingy.
I really like the Pioneer CDP, the Technics is ok but I'm looking forward to hearing the Lenco when it is working properly.
I like what I'm hearing, but there's something not quite right. I don't what it is and I don't what I'm looking for. This is all new to me so I have no idea what 'better' sounds like.
As for what I listen to. Well,
folk - Martin Carthy and any permutations he has been in; Bert Jansch; Imagined Village
Rock - Led Zeppelin; Reef; Rage Against the Machine; Queens of the Stone Age; Pink Floyd; Genesis
A bit of jazz
Singer/songwriter stuff - Kelly Joe Phelps; Jane Taylor
some female vocalists - currently digging Melody Gardot.
So classics and new stuff, folk to Rock to Jazz to electronic stuff (DJ Shadow, Roni Size)
And I have a fair bit of classical on vinyl which I don't listen to much at the moment.
Oh, and blues!
My budget is modest. The most expensive bit of kit I have at the moment is the Quad combo which cost me about £100. Everything else has been free or cheap. The attraction of the Cadet intially was the price. I'll come back to this.
Do I want to fettle? No. I have limited (ie non-existent) DIY skills, definitely don't know how to use a soldering iron. So, easy to use, built like a tank (like the Revox or Tascams). So, yes, a safe high quality entry that will give me pleasure for a long time with minimal fuss.
So, I've never heard valve kit but have a suspicion that it might be what I am looking for. Cheap would be good, but I realise this might be an impossibility. So, at a push I suppose I would eventually be looking at up to £500 maybe, but that really is pushing it. I'm trying not to be in a rush. I suspect the answer lies in the Croft budget pre-amp - putting that through the 405.
Have I missed anything?
An extra bit - I mostly listen to CD at the moment. I'm saving my vinyl for the Lenco. So, I intend to listen to CDs and records (and maybe even tapes!!!)
Hi Symon
The AE109's are not easy to drive IMHO. So the Cadet would be a waste of money. AE speakers of that vintage are fairly power hungry IMHE....not as much as a pair of AE1's. The problem is control of the bass.
You need an amplifier with more power perhaps than the ones I have mentioned...at the very least you will need to find away of getting a listen in your own room.
The Pre-amplifier route might get you part of the way but I am not sure about the Quad amplifier....in my mind they are soft warm and not the most transparent thing in town but are musical and reliable. However in my experience it is the mix of valves in the pre and power the whole package that has the magic, combinations just don't cut it in my opinion. I have tried the valve pre solid state power amplifier road in the form of the Pathos Classic 1, and while it is very good it just lacked the full valve sound. Solid state pre with valve power is a better compromise but still IMHO does not go the whole way. I was playing around with this idea before my Music reference valve power amp went wrong....so I can't give you any more than it was promising. I will revisit this when it is fixed. However in my heart I know the outcome will probably be that I will prefer the full sound of valves in the pre and power.
You present a difficult challenge....I suspect that the speakers may be the source of your dissatisfaction. I would explore that possibility as well.
What is it about your current set up that you don't like ?
Regards D S D L
A quick spin on Gurgle tells me the AE's are 90dB sensitivity & a 6 ohm load - I'd have thought a Cadet III could cope with that, Neil - as long as the room's not to big.Quote:
The AE109's are not easy to drive IMHO. So the Cadet would be a waste of money. AE speakers of that vintage are fairly power hungry IMHE....not as much as a pair of AE1's. The problem is control of the bass.
I agree the price is too high, though.
Despite the spec I felt that a pair we had in the shop S/H once were a bit hard to control properly.....certainly though we are talking about a push pull amp of at least 30 watts plus with very stiff power supply and excellent current output.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Symon will have to try some amps at home. Its hard Chris to recommend remotely I always prefer (sorry I forgot I am out of the trade now) to get the product into the end users home system for a try. Theories great but practical use is what counts.
Regards D S D L
I'm pretty sure someone brought a pair of these to one of out DIY meets along with a clone of an Avantic Beam Echo,which drove them to very high SPL's in a very large room.I remember a few peeps commenting on how big a sound from a smallish speaker.I think something like a KEL would be fine with these IMO.
Peter,just a thought,if you post on the WD forum,there will be someone nearby who may let you have a listen to a KEL.
Neil, of course, I completely agree, but having no experience of them, all I have to go on is the spec.
I'd be willing to bet they'd sound good bi-wired, with the Quad on the bass/mid & valves on the tweeters!!
Hi Ali
Was it these http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/Edi...hoto_ae109.jpg ?
Regards D S D L
Pretty sure it was,though in rosewood.They seemed to go damn loud for the size of them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Hi Chris
I must admit that the configuration you suggest I have never heard work properly. Two amps the same no problem but an SS amp on the bass and valve on the mid/treble nope. Once tried two Ecofan sound (valve) amplifiers set up this way similar spec just slightly different power and power valves. The speakers were easy to drive X overless Ref 3a Decapo's it was crap. You could hear the mismatch right away. The sound was like a Venetian blind no coherence at all.
It is true that companies like T&A have speakers with active bits and a valve amplifier driving the tweeter but they were designed to work this way. The chances of matching the sonic and power characteristics of a SS amp and a valve amplifier would be very hard...not impossible but you would I suspect have to try lots and lots of products to find a match.
Had a customer with two audio Innovations second audio amps one using 6B4G and the other 6A3s in a bi-amplification set up it didn't work...the 6A3 amp had to be modified to match the spec of the 6B4g amp this still was not right. Bi-amplifing must IMHO be done with identical amplifiers.
Regards D S D L
Yes they came in Rosewood, very nice finish. I may be having a senior moment here....you have me doubting myself now....ummmm:doh::(Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Regardless Symon must try any potential amplifiers in his own set up. Yes if some one on the WAD forum would let him try the amp at home that would be ideal.
Regards D S D L
I must've been lucky in my gear then!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L
For years, I used various combinations of Levinson/Radford/Cary amps into my SD OBS's & it never sounded as you describe.
The best incarnation was with the 50 watt ML11 driving both bass & tweeters with the STA15 on the mid. There are things that set-up did that I've never been able to replicate.
One day I'll try what would be the ultimate incarnation possible with the gear I now have. ML9 - bass / STA 15 - Mid / ML11 - treble. The Radford needs a little work, though.
Matching the gain without losing out was tricky, but possible.
The only time I've heard anyone else do it was with Impulse H2's - I can't remember the amps, but it gave a stunning sound. The treble was really sweet & drum kit dynamics were incredible (but those speakers did pretty much chuck it at you, didn't they?)
Otherwise, I bow to your wider experience!!
I think the kosher Beam Echos were 20 wpcQuote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Ummmm...interesting. When you do it we want....nay demand a write up;):) as soon as your fingers can do the typing. Technical details too please. I told you would be doing more writing for SOG :lol: Take it as a commissioned review for when you feel you can do it....when Mr Radford is fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Regards D S D L
You're a hard taskmaster, you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L
I'd actually planned to, but it might be quite some time before I can.
It will be worth waiting for Chris.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Regards D S D L