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Yep, not much really. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Nowadays proper wood speakers seem to be an exception rather than a rule, and as for sound there seems to be a lot of shrill and thin sounding components out there. However there are still gems to be found and the second hand market is the place to find the real hi-fi.
When I first heard and eventually owned the Quad ESL63 it was a life changing experience. Why did I get remarried and the Quads had to go? Did I love the Quads more than my wife? Close call guys!!
My Radford STA15 Mk2 power amp.
The reason it changed my life is that it made me realise a few things about hifi. - I'll explain......
Just prior to hearing this thing I had been to see Neil Young. I'd seen louder and heavier bands plenty of times before, but when I heard (and felt) the sheer power that was being produced by him and his incredible, messy feedback drenched but beautiful guitar playing, I came to a conclusion about hifi. You do not stand the slightest chance of even coming close to recreating 1 percent of that experience in your home. You can recreate the notes and sounds in pretty much the same place, but you will never get the same feeling as you do from that sort of live experience.
Now, I don't mind telling you that this threw me into a bit of a spin! I almost gave up with progressing my system.
Then I heard the Radford..........and with that came Realisation No. 2.
New and more expensive is not necessarily better, price is not directly proportional to quality and there are some things that the old guys had pretty much nailed down way back when.
I began to accept that, for rock and big orchestral music you can make a pretty fair approximation of the sounds but not the feeling. But it's still possible to make the hairs on the back of your neck crackle and send a shiver down your spine. Smaller scale music, of course is another pan of peche.
These two experiences together conspired to me completely changing tack with my philosophy on hifi. I ended up with kit making sounds that were good enough for the main components to stay reasonably constant for far longer periods - usually changes became evolutionary rather than revolutionary.
I combined the Radford at various times with SD Acoustics OBS (open baffle), the Audio Research SP8, and as a midrange amp with Levinson gear on the bass and treble. I still own the Radford and SD's but moved to a much bigger room, so the Levinsons are biamping some big Mirage M3Si's. The Radford still does it's stuff elsewhere.
It was in the mid to late 70's when I put together a rig to include:
Pioneer SX1250
Pioneer CTF9191
Pioneer PL530
Pioneer HOM100's
I was never to look at audio gear the same after that. Took most of the Navy pay I was earning back then for a year to pay off that system. Best money ever spent. Well, that and my first divorce lawyer, but that's another story...
Easy question, it was an old Fisher console full of Mullard valves. Like a lot of people, I had followed the path of technology to compact discs and lightweight, black plastic amplification. I'll never forget the day that I dragged that tired old Fisher home, warmed it up, and started an LP. It actually gave me goose bumps to hear the music, real music, like I hadn't heard in 35 years. Since that day I have spent nearly every free hour in the pursuit of valve audio nirvana. I've learned a lot and made some progress to that end, but I'm sure the "dream" will keep me busy for the remainder. :)
Nice one, Jay :smoking:Quote:
I'll never forget the day that I dragged that tired old Fisher home, warmed it up, and started an LP. It actually gave me goose bumps to hear the music, real music, like I hadn't heard in 35 years. Since that day I have spent nearly every free hour in the pursuit of valve audio nirvana.
I feel the same way about my valve stuff. It make you wonder how much *genuine* progress, in terms of absolute sound quality, has been made with audio equipment in the last, say, 25 years?
I often hear vintage equipment spank the pants off of modern gear, and valve kit is a valid case in point - yet the uninitiated think it is outdated distortion-filled crap. What bollocks! I guess we can leave them to their computers, iPods and suchlike, whilst we revel in the beautiful music reproduced by our valve equipment with a very smug grin on our faces :eyebrows:
Marco.
Of course the reality is that valves produce less distortion than any type of transistor, but with transistors a lot more feedback can be used than with valves. The use of excessive levels of feedback is very efficient at hiding distortion. Unfortunately, it can also be very effective at hiding an important part of the music.:ner:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I do quite a bit of "old commercial amp" overhauling for friends, which is really neat because it allows me to hear lots of different things. Last weekend I completed a Sherwood Mono 6L6 amp and matching tuner for a guy, and of course had to listen to it for a couple days. It was absolutely fantastic. I felt as though I was in the DJ booth at the radio station. The announcers words were just so lifelike, and the music was...............well, musical. I actually caught myself looking over my shoulder a couple of times to make sure no one was behind me.;)
Excellent point, Kevin. The mistake which gets made is that there are many types of distortion - the 'solid-state' boys just lump it all under the category of 'bad', so to them it must be hidden or removed. But some forms of distortion are naturally present within musical information; remove them and the resultant sound is somewhat 'sterile' and artificial. It's a bit like Diet Coke: pleasant enough in its own right but not quite as satisfying as the real thing!Quote:
Of course the reality is that valves produce less distortion than any type of transistor, but with transistors a lot more feedback can be used than with valves. The use of excessive levels of feedback is very efficient at hiding distortion. Unfortunately, it can also be very effective at hiding an important part of the music.
Jay,
Old tuners are simply wonderful. I love some of the big Jap stuff from the 70s (e.g. Yamaha's CT7000) and the likes of the Day-Sequerra. This is one area where IMO almost no advances have been made in terms of sound quality. Modern DAB tuners sound shit compared to 'classic' analogue tuners - the only modern tuner that gets near their level of performance is the Magnum Dynalab, but then you're paying big time for it!
Marco.
Hi guys
These are the ones that sent me spinning in the direction I am now. The kit that unlocked my music and sent me to audio heaven.
Marantz CD 94 mk2
Audio Innovations S500
Pro-ac Super Tablets
I know these aren't really old,but they date back to when I first got into audio, about 19 years ago.
I rapidly upgraded within about a year and a bit from a Rotel 820 amp to an Audio Innovations S300 and then the 500 which I used for about 10 years before I next upgraded
The CDP was all Marantz starting with a 273se to a 65mk2 se, 85 and then the CD 94 mk2.
The pro-ac's lasted through all these changes(originally I started with Celestion Ditton speakers, can't remember which ones. Very small bookshelf)
Anyway thats what I started with. Still have most of the above( I do like to keep stuff).
Of vintage stuff I use day to day The Leak Troughline 2 tuner and EAR decoder are amazing.
Regards D S D L
Excellent speakers, I love ProAc stuff. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by D Louth
Hi
Yes the Super Tablets were and still are amazing(no bass to speak of), but the midrange, focus and their ability to vanish totally. To this day I still haven't found anything that quite sounds this way. The sound I have now is vastly better than back then but memory is a funny thing, there are times when I think sometimes I am not better off. However I know if I put everything back together from then that what I have now will be so much better. But your early experiences with audio are so special that it leaves a massive mark on everything which follows. Evey thing was so fresh, so new, so virginal. All the crap that hangs on to us now was absent. It was all about the music. It still should be but is it?
Regards D S D L
Indeed, I often wonder if I'd have been happy sticking with my Creek 4140S3 and my Tannoy Mercury Gold S speakers and my mains cable for speaker cable. :) Times were simpler then, my first source was a Sony tapedeck - cracking it was!
I still have the kit I had and all the cables. Maybe I should wire it all back up and see how it sounds. The only problem is the room I had then is not the same now. This system and all its bits and bobs were put together to suit a room. I tuned the system to the room. When I got married and moved to where I am now the sound was no where near as good.
The room I tried was nearly the same in size but the materials it was made of were not. In fact this room was actually better(not as resonant) but that original set up was like a highly tuned musical instrument. System and room one.
Several years of set up and adjustment made for a fantastic set up. Customers who used to come to my house for a listen were always blown away by how good a system could sound in a small room.
Regards D S D L
Meddle by Pink Floyd :)
i guess the 401 on a slatedeck changed my views upside down I moved away from being a belt man as just loved the way the 401 allows the music to flow through
I think everyone will agree this is a classic around for 25 years plus.
I remember the first time I saw one on the front cover off a magazine called New hi-fi Sounds. I said that I would get one, one day which I did.
A joker in the place I worked in back then once presented me with an Absolute sounds point of sales hard board picture of a mk3 Delphi. He thought this was funny as he had wound me up for awhile. Would you like A Delphi etc etc. I had the last laugh though as he sold me his mk4 a year latter. The TT he got in my opinion did not sound as good.
Anyway I have had it and loved it ever since.:)
Regards D S D L
Lecson AC1/AP3.
Having only heard crap Japanese amps or Quad, Leak and Armstrong's early SS efforts (this would be about 1975), these amps were the first I'd come across that sounded instantly and hugely different from anything I'd heard before, and showed that speakers weren't necessarily the most important part of a system. Still think it's the best looking amp ever as well.
Lecson HL1.
This strange corner-horn device arrived in the shop one day, again around 1975. From the floor below, I was convinced that a live band was playing upstairs, despite the deeply unlikely fact that the band in question was Led Zeppelin, who were not known for impromptu appearances in small Devon hifi shops. After a diet of small British speakers from the likes of Wharfedale, Celestion and Monitor Audio, they were a real eye-opener on different approaches to music making. Horribly coloured but enormous fun, like most commercial horns.
The Lecson AC1/AP3:
http://i.cinenow.net/booth-images-l/...fier-29003.jpg
Funny, I always thought this was a Boothroyd Stuart design, then I found out that it was Meridian Lecson. :)
Owning Quad ESL57s made me realise that I didn't much like electrostatics! :sofa:
Certainly changed my hifi life realising that!
Well they're not for everyone Pete. I had some and went back to dynamic boxes. :)
Wow! I was expecting to get reamed a new one by all the people who love them. It's rare to find them being criticised - that last thing I was expecting was someone to agree with me! :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Filterlab
Ok,I'll ream you.They're bloody great!! :lolsign:
Well certainly the ones I have now are far better than '57's.
Ah, but this threda was for vintage! Unfortunately, I like my music to have some dynamics and drama, hence my preference for things like Vitavox S2s. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
No top no bass, distort like mad ,dull as ditchwater imho ( not S2's ).
That's a pretty good sum up (in my opinion), the later ones were a lot better though. My MLs were good but not crisp enough for my ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by purite audio
Hmmm... Mine certainly didn't sound dull or distorted, just lacking in oomph. They do beam horribly, though and the treble disappears anywhere but the sweet spot. Having said that, my pair were well maintained. Often the treble panels get damaged through arcing when over-driven and this makes them sound dull. They also fizz and buzz if the dust covering is loose or damaged (window film and a hair-dryer will fix that).
Agreed about the beaming on 57's.I find my ER Audio pair much better in this respect.
When I coupled a pair of Lowther PM7's to an old Decca 'Sterogram' (early stereo record player). The Decca had an 8 valve amp, fully overhauled by Phil Taylor. Ok, with the amplifier under the turntable it ran horribly hot, but to my ears, and a surprising number of people who heard it, it was really something. Decca and Lowthers are long gone, but it started me on an interesting road.
I guess the first 'real' bit of hi-fi that i bought was some B&O beovox S-80s for about £20. Big, heavy, 3 way boxes which outperformed any of the nice looking speakers i'd had up to that point- B&W etc etc...
Taught me that technology isn't necesarily moving in the right direction :)
You should have bought some 3800's or 5702's, better than those phasey old S80's by a country mile :)
I'm currently using some re-vamped Spendor BC2's I originally sold to a mate's Dad back in 1974. The foam grille "cushions" have long perished and the bass/mid units had to be replaced with newer ones, but the sound (with more damping in the cabs and officially re-tuned ports) is lovely and I'm playing acoustic music again...
Don't slag the S-80s, they rawk!! :upyours:
Mine were a bit rough aswell, i had to get get all new capacitors and foam grills, but they are still a lovely looking and sounding pair. I'm holding onto mine until they become collector's items... only a matter of time lol
Quad esl57 + QuadIIs. Once I'd got them home I was up half the night marvelling at the sound. Superb!!!
Bought without listening to either - £300 for both items 15 years ago.
Not that it sounded bad but it was a pain to set it up and keep it that way,was when i replaced a Linn Sondek lp12 with a Kenwood l-07d.
For me, it had to be my Logic DM101 with Syrinx PU2 tonearm and Denon DL160 cartridge. I was around twenty three at the time and very lucky to be able to afford such a thing. It went into a Naim 42/snaps/110 amplifier and QLN Mk1 speakers. I loved this system and the Logic only went to make way for CD... how bloody stupid was I...???
It has been like a trip down memory lane,reading the posts in this thread.
I've heard quite a few of the products mentioned(not the Beveridges).
Probably one of the pivotal moments in Hi-Fi for me,was getting my Altec Valencias home from the Salvation Army Store,unhooking my ProAc Tablette EBTs and firing-up the Altecs.The Altecs took about a day to come to life,but the ProAcs(which I'd happily owned for 15 years)were retired from that very day.
The Altecs still grace my system(albeit in diy active form).
The best sounding component I've ever owned is the Yamaha GT 2000 turntable.
I may have mentioned it before, but the first real musical epiphany I had was listening to Tangerine Dream's "Phaedra" on a GL75/M75-EJ, Armstrong 626 receiver and JBL L26's. The system weren't bad for the times but the music was unbelievable. I've never been the same since and get goosebumps every time I play that album, so huge was the life change it brought about...........................
Has to be a pair of Leak TL12+ for £40 fom Watts Radio in Somerton in the 80s.
This started my return to valves and I've never looked back.
Andy.
Great reading folks!!!!!!
My audio revelation was in 1991 when i bought a package of LP 12, with akito arm and k9, linn intek amp, and a pair of linn helix speakers with their stands. I have had them since and didn't see any reason to divorce from them ( unlike my first wife!!!!:doh:) and so we have faithfully been together for 18 years spending at least a couple of hours together a day.:) Very romantic don't you think? - and valentines day just around the corner. :kiss::kiss:
My audio nightmare was in 1998 and doing national service for 6 months and being without my sound system but instead listening to a crappy portable cd player!!!!!:doh::uhho: ..............
Then i caught the 5.1 channel bug and bought a yamaha av amp . I couldn't stand the sound from it so after a while I reverted back to 2 channel home cinema sound.
My next revelation was last year buying a TC-7510....... at last a could cope with listening to a cd.........
......... until i saw and joined this forum.......... and now i await the TC-7510 with mod 21 part 1 and 2...............
That yamaha GT 2000 looks stunning Theophile. Where did you find it?
I imported it into Australia from Japan.It is a 100Volt model(Japanese standard).Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren
It sounds brilliant,moreso since I recently sat it atop 8 Clearaudio Magix mag-lev footers. :idea:
Totally agree, that deck is a typical example of so many that are out there, and this is why too many folk diss the LP12, I have serviced and set-up a few LP12's for friends and their reports and findings on their newly fettled LP12's have simply blown them away, and yes I still have their mails if you want further proof, put quite simply the LP12 is a classic TT, and one that when set-up by a competent dealer/enthusiast will outperform most of its rivals, yes there are several current worthy contenders around that offer a totaly different approach and performance but this is not to take anything away from a true classic, albeit with its own forboyles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy831
LP12/Ekos/Cirkus'd/Armageddon user and devotee.
Aged 14 and way back then I had a life changing experience. My first smoke of a joint whilst hearing Pink Floyd's 'The Wall' on the first real hifi I'd ever heard. (Thorens TD160, Quad 33/405, ESL 63s). Things have never been the same since.
I don't think my LP12 changed my life. It sort of sat there quietly getting on with it's job. Too relaxed to create a deep impression. It's the sort of deck you don't notice. After 19 house moves mine does want a proper set up but my arm board has never got as skewed as the one in that photo.
As for life changing kit.
I first heard Acoustic Energy AE1s in 1987 and had a vivid impression of that sound lodged in my brain for nearly 20 years until I could afford to buy a pair. It was worth the wait, I find them remarkable.
EAR 802 pre amp. I stumbled upon this at a bargain price very recently. Believe it or not it's my first brush with tubes. I'm smitten. It's a glorious piece of kit.
Since I used to pop round to all the dealers in town and change my gear with every new moon, I have a lot of memories of a lot of good gear that came and went in my life. Including the 8000A (my amp had a grey faceplate, however). It never did anything for me. These are some that did:
Nytech 252:
http://www.audiogold.co.uk/catalogue...CA-252%202.JPG
JPW AP-3:
http://www.gz008.cn/uploads/userup/0807/2223163343S.jpg
Sugden Connoisseur BD-2:
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/206/b113as.jpg
For me it was the Audiolab 8000a I bought 2nd hand back in the early 90's. Soon as I picked it up I knew it was a serious bit of gear. It's a hefty beast. I've still got it somewhere but I use an 8000S now.
More recently, my Dynaudio Audience 42's. A fantastic little speaker for the money. I can't afford the 52se's!
From The Grave
Come on then boys & girls - time to revisit this thread!
Cambridge R40 transmission line speakers started me down the road of true hi-fi, powered from self-built electronics. With the classic KEF combination of B139, B110 and T27 drivers. They sounded gorgeous and kept me going for all my student and early independent years. A friend was still running them up to about a year ago with the original drivers still working.
it was but then you found out wrong, forget the Meridian bit ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Filterlab
My defining musical and Hi-Fi moment was when I got my first real turntable, the Pioneer PL12D and playing my second LP purchase, which was Dark Side of the Moon. Previous to this I had to beg, borrow and steal my parents Dansette mono record player. Having my own 'high-end' Hi-Fi in my room was pure ecstasy (high end for me in those days was a PL12D!).
I wish I still had it really, just for the nostalgia and I don't think anything since then, has had such an impact as venturing into the world of music from the privacy of my own room.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...tgig/pl12d.jpg
First Long Player I bought.
I bought it in the year of its release.
I sold it two years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_the_Beginning
Its always been the music for me. The kit is just a tool.