Wot yer got to move on then?
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Wot yer got to move on then?
Nothing I particularly need to shift cause I can't be bothered with the agrro plus I never know when I may need it again. Which is why it is all still piled about in the lounge! The pile in the photo comprises:Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Behringer A500 (waiting to be a sub-woofer amp, I've got another somewhere)
Sony CDP 761E - laser knackered I think
Another Sony CDP - fine draw won't open on its own
Samsung Blu-ray player
Linn LK1 Preamp
Don't understand, Counties have an 8" paper cone bass unit and HF1300. The 1300 was often used with 8" bass units.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
The Ditton 10 used an approx. 5" unit (same as the Ditton 44 mid) and HF1300.
Both County and 10 are not too bad a speaker. The Ditton 10 has remarkable bass for the size. Treble, up to the limit of the 1300 (not that high) is pretty good.
The early Ditton 10's were 15 Ohm, were marked Studio Series, had heavy bitumen panels damping the inside of the cabinet and I reckon that they were possibly an inspiration for the LS3/5a
The limited (but good) treble of the 10's might make them good rear channel speakers for the Ditton 44.
:lolsign: Already told him they are early Venered baffle board version that still carries the old plastic terminal pod (Post 24) :) The later one's didnt have a plastic pod.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
But your right the '33's are great, still my Fav out of all of them.
However they are in nice condition Martin, you just need some low open frame stands now..Don't you just love the wide x shallow depth cabinets, i have stacks more playability with my speakers being not deep at all..
Hello everyone my names Andre and I'm a 70's oholic :lolsign:
sorry mate, couldn't resist;)
There's no cure :eyebrows:
Hi AndreQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Got some stands coming but they area low pillar, could not find any open frames to suit despite extensive trawling. Shouldn't matter as I will be using them in free space anyway due to room constraints. Sounded very good indeed earlier on just plonked on the floor with a lash up system so I have high hopes.
Well it has been a lot of work but it has been worth it. Here is a piccie of the Celestions now sat upon their new stands, secured with lashings of our old friend Blu-Tak and wired up with Belkin cable and gold plated screw on Belkin spade connectors (thanks to Chris 'Wazoo').
Do they look Kick Ass or what?:eyebrows:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/a...2009/001-2.jpg
My Williams power is out on loan so the system is as per my sig but with a Linn LK100 on power amp duties. As mentioned before I am interested in the comparison between these Celestions - the second in the 1970s flagship Ditton range behind the '66, and my A2s which were second in the 1990s 'A' series range.
As you can see in the photo the 44 is a true 3 way sealed box whereas the A2 (which are hiding behind) is a two and a half way with the one 8'' for mid/bass and another for low bass only, laid out in a D'Appolito or MTM arrangement and with a bass port on the back the size of the Mersey Tunnel
Having designed and had built some speakers in the dim and distant past my preference is for large sealed cabs with drivers dedicated to each section of the frequency range hence my interest in trying out the 44s.
Listening kicked off with some recently cleaned vinyl:
The Blues Brothers - original soundtrack
Pat Travers - Makin' Magic
BB King - The Best Of
By the time I got to the BB King it is fair to say I was stunned. One of the first things that became apparant is that there is a noticable 'family' sound between the 44 and the A2. Let me put it this way, if, in 1996 after 20 years you decided to replace your old 44s with the latest equivelent Celestion you would not have to suffer too much of a culture shock - big expansive, warm and sweet describes both loudspeakers, in fact the Ditton is actually sweeter and maybe more open in the top.
The Ditton also has the edge on instrumental seperation and vocals, preumably because of the dedicted midrange driver; but the real star of the show here is the bass from those 12 inch paper cones. Clean, deep-ish (deep enough anyway) and with an almost intangible but nevertheless addictive rich, sumptuous tone to it. I have read that the same cones are prized for guitar cabs due to their particular sonic signature. No wonder!
I am actually starting to think that these speakers have had very little use from new, I mean under 100 hours as they have effectively been in storage for 20 odd years. There is no question that the sound opened out and bass and mid became faster and sweeter the longer I played. I may actually be still breaking the drivers in!
Spinning records for several hours (actually from 6pm to 1030pm without a break!) I had no desire to swap back to the A2. I had gone through a number of rock albums which all hit the spot nicely. So then I decided to try some more demanding material in the form of the live Pat Metheney record 'The Road to You' which is a stunning production and very dynamic and wideband.
It was the best I have ever heard it reproduced.
Are these keepers? Well I am going to have to think long and hard about it. Certainly, with the listening so far, I think I prefer them to the A2, although there is not a gulf between them, it is not 'night and day':lolsign: With volume up you can maybe hear the box a little on the 44 whereas you can't on the A2.
Then there is the beautiful cabs of the 44 - the veneer is perfect and it is a pleasure just to sit and look at them even when they are not doing anything!
I may try the A2 on the stands as they will fit on them with a little coaxing and a lot of Blu-Tak - we shall see. Anyway, enough of my yakking, that's it for now, I am off to listen to my new toys again!
Regards To All
Great write up Martin. Sounds like you got a real bargain there :clap:
He did, just the tweeters go for more on fleabay than he payed for the pair of speakers :lolsign:Quote:
Originally Posted by keiths
Nice one Martin, enjoy chap! They sure do look good, superb condition :partytime:
You can toe them in a little if you'd like to :)
They look lovely. Glad you love them and you can be assured that they've almost never sounded as good as they do now...
It was ages ago (decades in fact), but I remember the Counties as nasal, overly dry and almost muffled in balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by spendorman
Thanks for your responses lads:)
Dave - I have toed them in a bit earlier tonight...just a little. Some more minor fettling to do I think. Incidentally it's also a thumbs up for the bargain basement Belkin AV speaker cable - my struggle to open the packaging was nothing short of heroic, I assure you:lol: - anyway - nothing wrong with it that I can hear.
Regards
That Belkin Pure A/V speaker cable is deceptively good value, i use it on all my kit now, i don't think it's worth looking any further, nowt cheaper is as good and you have to pay considerably more to hear any real differenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Yes, agree totally - I am going to order some more runs - the only issue I have with it is that it is a bit inflexible with that mesh screening, minor point I know but if you have WAF considerations it is a bit difficult to hide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jac Hawk
Hi to everyone, this is my first post, I live in Liverpool, uk, a firm hi fi buff without the anorak!! but very keen on decent sound, vinyl, I love Quadraphonic sound which ought to raise a couple of eyebrows, but my first post concerns the Celestion Ditton 44s.
I have four, predictably, and thought others might like to know what i have done with these in terms of restoration. Acutally very little, but all pretty far reaching.
First, I replaced the undersize binding posts with modern banana sockets. Beware, the metal plates on the earlier round post enclosures act as conductors.....you need something between, ok. I also replaced the wire between posts to crossover, and crossover to bass. The rest I think pretty adequate for now........:lol:
Next, I did not hesitate to replace the capacitors, thinking them well past their best. The inductors are excellent, so I left those well alone. The caps set me back about £40. At first, they sounded thinner, lighter and I though OMG!!! and wanted to reverse the work. But, I left them a good couple of months, and they truly opened up, bass is more extended but not boomy, they dig lower than ever I heard them, but remain very controlled. Lower notes of organ are certainly reproduced well below the stated bottom end of 25 Hz, I tried a CD of Liverpool cathedral organ and could catch bottom C!! 16 Hz.
The last thing I did was check the midrange enclosures, these are glued yes, but I noticed when I got these last year that the enclosures were not airtight (probably glue decomposing? cracking?), but moved with the 12 inch bass, ie the cone was being sucked in with the 12's movement. Not good. I PVA glued all four enclosures (bit of a pain!!....) , all of which leaked to varying degrees, and the midrange opened up amazingly. The bass was much the same, slightly tighter but not night and day. The big difference was the mid. Bright, very airy, musical, detailed.
A friend of mine had these babies years ago, I finally got four myself, as I was tired of small speaekrs failing to reproduce organ or orchestral stuff well and sounding wel....small!!!, these sound big and accurate, but amazingly uncoloured, even by todays standards.
Thanks for reading, hope this is of interest and maybe some help to you guys!!
Richard
Hi Richard,
Would you mind stopping by the Welcome section to introduce yourself to the natives? That's the best way to be sure of a warm welcome. Tell us a bit about yourself, the rest of your system & the music you like.
Cheers
I'm considering a pair of classic Celestion speakers. The price of 15s are very resonable at the moment compared with the 44s. Are the Ditton 15s worth getting or is it worth up the budget a little and go for a pair of better sounding 44s ?
Never heard a 15 but they are quite different in their design from the 44 so I guess will have a different presentation too. The really important thing to take into account with these old Celestions is the drive unit condition. They're very old speakers now so I would not worry about which model so much as getting a very lightly used pair that will still be able to give their best.Quote:
Originally Posted by pavalon
The 15's were rather coloured by the standards of the mid 70's, let alone today.. HOWEVER, a modern system and a re-wire/recap may help to change all that, so don't be put off.
The best vintage mini-Celestions are possibly the DL range, as these got good reviews, look a bit more modern and benefitted from more advanced driver design...
By the way, the Ditton 15 became the 15XR which Marco uses and likes. I believe these evolved into the Ditton 150, but I have no knowledge of these at all. Anyone ever heard them?
Picked up a pair of 44's today courtesy of fellow forumer Lance aka 'Elvis's Last Movement' (thoroughly nice bloke). These appear to be of a similar vintage to Martin's pair as they have the veneered baffles and feeble terminal posts on a plastic circular insert. Unlike Martin's these cabinets are well worn with a few knocks and one tweeter has lost its rubber outer ring but it appears to be working OK, all this was reflected in the very generous price that Lance let them go for.:)
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...itton44002.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...itton44003.jpg
Have hooked them up to the A60 and will give them a good listen to see how they compare to my Audiomasters before deciding how to proceed with any restoration.
OOOh... very nice, looking forward in hearing how they sound, they are in superb nick.
Joe, they look alright from a distance but they do have signs of their 30+ year life when you get close up, should be a good basis for some restoration though.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...itton44004.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...itton44007.jpg
Still in better condition than the enclosures of my Ditton 66 Rich :)
Mine look like they have been attacked by a pack of ravenous rats on speed :lol:
They still work as intended though, which is the main thing ;)
Still not bad Rich... I'm sure those bits can be fixed up.
I need to get a weeks listening under my belt before deciding how to proceed with the 44's and then bombarding you guy's for advice. Initial impressions are good but they are by no means wiping the floor with the Audiomasters, I think it maybe a close fight ;)
Well I have lived with the 44’s for a couple of weeks and have to say that I really like them, they have that definite 70’s feel about them and can be listened to for hours with out any sense of fatigue. My listening room is the size of a single garage (cause that’s what it used to be) and I when I got the 44’s I was expecting them to be too much for a releatively small space, however I have found the base to be so polite and well controlled that I often forget that I’m listening to largish speakers and get a shock when I turn round to find two 12” base drivers staring back at me :lol:.
I think these are definitely going to be keepers and so now have to decide what to do them, the cabinet’s definitely need some work but I am a little unsure about how to go about this with the drivers in place.
For those that are interested in the oily bits, I also had a peek inside at a crossover. I have identified the values of some of the caps but some are unmarked, also not sure what type of caps the green ones are in the HF circuit
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...4Crossover.jpg
Hi Rich
Your findings mirror mine in that despite the size of these speakers and the 12'' bass drivers they are certainly not a PA speaker. I cannot get the best out of them in my room but your's does sound close to ideal for them. I agree they are so easy to listen to and bass quality is superb. That crossover looks mint to me, do you think it is worth updating the components?
Rich,
I'm in the same position as you in that i'm now going to modify the hell out of the 44's I own. :cool: Quick tip. Remove all the drivers first and then restore the cabinets. Take lots of photo's. The cross-over has been extensively discussed on www.diyaudio.com just do a search of the threads for celestion 44 and not only will you get the values to your seeking but also some very good info on how to tweek them. I have the following mods planned.
1. Stiffen up the cab with more cross bracing
2. rebuild the x-o with silver instead of copper, replace all caps with silver based
versions.
3. brand new high purity silver/copper binding posts (or see point 8)
4. re-wire all units with teflon coated silver
5. replaced the dampening material
6. remount all the drivers with a 1mm sorbothane dampening ring
7. externally house the cross-over in aluminium and mumetal casing
8. Probably solder speaker cables direct to x-o so no need for binding posts
or a set of Eichmann's
Skys the limit really but just a few ideas to float your boat. :cool:
Wow Andrew, that some list of mods you are planning:eek:. I had read a few threads re the crossover caps, there seems to be some discrepancy about the larger value cap on the Mid circuit I have seen values mentioned from 24uF to 33uf, I have ??uF+6uf in parallel.
Martin, I'm not sure what to do about the crossovers, what do you think? I had toy'd with the idea off changing the Mid & HF caps for some basic films such as Ansars or Claritycaps and then do a straight swap for new electrolytics on the base caps, this would keep the cost reasonable. However I think the necessary soldering skills would be beyond me and so I am currently trying to work out if I can refurb the cabinets with the drivers in place.
lol I'm not the best person to ask - I'm in the If It Aint Broke Don't Fix It camp. Andrew's list is pretty exhaustive, I'd mix and match from that dependant on your skills and how much time/money you want to invest. Re the cab refurb you could tape up the drivers as though you were respraying a car. Have to be real careful though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothman
I have been offered a pair at £50 should i go for it
Sounds good Dan, early ones with the hard wired X-Overs would be even better.
Excellent thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman91
YES
I must admit that I have been side tracked with this project. I decided I wanted to spend a little more time getting my valve setup upgraded. This has meant that I have replinthed and fully restored a garrard 301, had a SME 3012 full fettled, mess around with some JR149's, oh and trial out a new SUT. As you can see, I've been busy. The 44's are sittting in the loft, only to be restored at some point in the future. I sorry to say that i dont think it will be anytime soon :( I intend messing around with the power input to both my 1210 and valve setup next year. Maybe, mid 2013 and I'll have another rethink.
Thing is, they have a very approachable and friendly sound to them in stock form - easy to live with once the size is taken into account :)
Good condition examples consistently fetch over £200 on eBay, even colection only so I would say yes, buy them. The drive units can be had cheap if they need replacing - except for the tweeters, that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman91
+1 mine are still in stock form at the moment, so this is still an option for any current owners. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
A pair of Ditton 44s at £50 is a bargain. They're worth buying just for the HF2000 tweeters and bass units are pretty decent too.
Martin,
This might be a solution for you, got a pair of 44's last year (reading from here to see what the fuss is about)only to find both tweeters gubbed, :doh:
after checking the going rate for the HF2000's, no way am i gonna drop £150 to £200 for a pair,
so i lashed up a fix with some Wharfedale Purple tweeters i had kicking around. both measured 4.5 ohm and working a treat,
not my main speakers but i must enlarge the magnet hole to drop them in someday, the outside diameter is perfect btw. :)
Pulled them out to take a couple of shots to let you see what i mean, note they sit on ipad packing to have them firing slightly downwards to give time alignment, sounding lovely as i type. :D
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/1596/002izc.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img801/7223/004sri.jpg
Hi Andy
No mine are in absolutely mint working order. I was just pointing out to Dan that if the mids or bass drivers are knackered you can get them quite cheap.
Going to view them tommorow. I'm not sure i really need them but i can make ap rofit on them anyway they hold their value
Then snap them up Martin, mine's are mark 1's and cost me £80.00, got them home only to find no HF, tested with a 9v battery and nothing,Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
what worked a treat was the 'P' clip connectors on the Wharfe's pushes into the tags on the front of the HF2000 and the grill even pushes in perfectly, :D
hence i never bothered doing a permanent fix in a vain hope i come across a pair of original tweets for sane price.
Good luck with it if you buy, they're very good. :cool:
P.S. only noticed it's Dan thats getting them, teach me to read through thread before doing anything. :rolleyes:
lol..Quote:
Originally Posted by wiicrackpot
Here is a piccie of mine:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/a...2009/001-2.jpg
So how do they sound then guys.
They sound excellent. The only issue I have is the power handling - used in free space in my room - as per the picture - I can't really get enough volume without worrying about blowing them. Bear in mind I am sat 18' from the speakers. They need a wall behind them, ideally. Not something I can do in my room due to fireplace, doorways etc. They have some great strengths, particularly bass timing is spot on and also the sweet top end delicacy.
There going to be used at light volume. on 2 max I never play music loud :cool:
I have a fairly big room. I have a pair of target stand for them.
If you can get them close to a wall and on about 6 inch stands that would be about perfect. I'm afraid I am one of those people who likes to feel the bass power, ;) but they are not that sort of 'speaker although they have excellent bass, makes a mockery of a lot of contemporary speakers with their rows of 5 inch 'bass' drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Will see how i get on.