Nah, we don't worry about back handers and 'free' promotions on here, everyone is welcome to push their goods until they've no breath left. :)
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Nah, we don't worry about back handers and 'free' promotions on here, everyone is welcome to push their goods until they've no breath left. :)
Some more black box pron...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...tem40small.jpg
Just been listening to the P75 again, using the Joan Armatrading *Me Myself I album as the music. Hell's fookin' bells!! The 75 (which is still a cracking little phonostage, no excuses needed) sounds pinched, narrow, bright and synthetic compared to the Phono2.
*I'd not listened to this for years - forgotten how bloody good it was. Analogue-recorded drums & bass at its best - dynamics that make your hair curl (if I had any). ;)
By the way, if I forge some proof, do I still qualify for a free amplifier?Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
:eyebrows:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filterlab
No! at the minimum you would probably get community service or probation :lolsign:
You missed transfering these two posts. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Shut it old man and just get stuck in to yer new room! :ner:
;)
Gromit, you can now proceed with the rest of your thread uninterrupted by these hooligans...
Marco.
Cheeky young whippersnapper - do yer job properly or no pocket money next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Ok, daddy.
Marco.
:D
Thanks Marco :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Meanwhile back at the ranch...
My rig sounds blummin' fab today. Great what a weekend's worth of giving the sytem a proper beasting can do to loosen it all up. :)
Now all I need is a quartet of A80 mono's... ;)
Just got myself an A30 power amp to give bi-amping a try...will post some pics up forthwith. In the meantime, the A30 is in the same 'small' NVA box as the phono stage. :)
So much for the 'box count reduction' :doh:
Not got round to getting Richard to bi-wire-config the amp end of the LS5 speaker cable yet so just had the A30 running on its own. What a wonderfully sweet sounding little amp this is! :)
I Think you may well love bi - amping - as I do. Rob's previous thoughts about the synergy of bi - amping being difficult to get right need not apply here with an all NVA setup. What amazed me most was this:
Difference between 40 watts and 70 watts = fantastic!:)
Difference between 70 watts and re-introducing 40 watts in addition up top = Even greater!:lol::scratch:
Maybe the crossover leeches the signal more than I can imagine, but it was still a tremendous suprise to me.
BTW, didn't your A30 come with some LS1? If your royds can biwire then you'll be ok surely?(I'm not calling you shirley...)
Nice one Alan, glad you're pleased with your bi-amped set-up.
You're right, I found that one amp running my MLs was better than bi-amping, however I think it was just in that case as most seem to benefit from bi-amping.
Ooo oo oo, talking of amplifiers, a change for me is afoot - I'm so excited at the moment!
Did you know your forum clock is an hour slow?Quote:
Originally Posted by Filterlab
Clock test!
Nope.... Seems to be correct on my pc! :scratch:
This post of yours is labelled 12.21 my computer said 13.21, which is the current time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shian7
AHA someone has just changed it to the correct time - ta!
It's correct on my computer - as are the post times. :confused:
Weird! :confused:
That's computers for you, well PCs anyway. ;)
I used a Mac for years until around 8 months ago, now I'm all Ubuntu Linux:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...left_standing/
Surprised by the Mac's performance TBH!!!
Glad you're liking your amps Richard, lots of perspex boxes around your house then!
More black boxes...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_2059.jpg
From the bottom up...
PSU for the Phono2 phono amp
CA 840C
A60 & A30 power amps
P90sa Pre
Phono2 phono stage
Bi-amping? I'm getting my LS5 speaker cable (currently only set for bi-wire at the speaker end) converted to bi-wire at the amp end to allow for the bi-amp, but yesterday, just for the hell of it, I connected the A30 up to the tweeters using some old Exposure cable (it's pretty much NACA4/5 - looks identical bar the labelling).
Genuinely surprised by the difference this has made, even though it's compromised by the cable mis-match. More presence, clearer midrange projection - ie there's much better pitch coherence and intensity. Clearly better dynamics but best of all, there's a much better sense of urgency. Music feels like it's going somewhere. :)
Nice stuff, Richard, and it's an obviously well thought out system :)
Have you ever thought of getting rid of that crappy 'B&Q'-type mains block, though? ;)
Or is it something you've built yourself?
Marco.
Now come on Marco - we all know that mains'n'cables'n'stuff don't make any difference ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Never thought about the mains block tbh - although this is a very nice 10 quid Maplin one. :)
Dont get him started Rich! He talked me through his hifi power 'arrangement' and I was left cowering...I bet the street lights in Chester dip when Mad Marco powers up!
Haha...yes it is rather 'OTT', but I wouldn't have it any other way because I know how influential it's been to the results I've obtained from my system :smoking:
Seriously though, Richard, you should look into this area of your system and ascertain what improvements could be made. Simply doing away with the Maplin block (they really are horrible things, sonically, especially in a quality hi-fi system like yours) and installing a series of wall sockets attached to a separate spur, would give a noticeable improvement in the sound quality of your system.
Are you using bog standard 'kettle leads', too?
I'm not suggesting you go 'daft' about this stuff, like me (LOL!) but a little attention to detail will pay dividends, I can promise you that, especially as you have all the right 'building blocks' already in place :)
Marco.
Hi Marco - unfortunately we presently live in a rented house in London (our own gaff is up in Cheshire) so putting a separate spur in is a no-no. :(
We're thinking of building our own place shortly so I'll most definitely be thinking 'hifi' when the wiring's being done. :)
I am using a Chord Powercord on the CD player though. :)
Nice one, Richard. I like the idea of building your own gaff. I hope it goes well for you. If you would like any advice regarding installing the mains set-up for your system when the time comes let me know :smoking:
Marco.
It had to happen - went for broke and bought Jerry's mint condition A80 mono's.
Need to sell the little A30 power now and get onto saving for a pair of A40's to bi-amp. :)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_2076.jpg
Oh, and while we're here...
Just re-positioned the Spacedeck and sat down to some more tunes.
Verdict? Same obsvervations apply re the sound of the 1210 vs the NAS - the NAS is clearer, better organised - the music in this instance is Eddie Daniels 'Blackwood' with ED's Clarinet having quicker, more 'bubbly' articulation. Phrases and breaks are easier to follow, there's a greater sense of progress and brio and where the Technics would lose grip slightly on musical dynamics (ie if a phrase is pushed harder) the NAS definitely has greater headroom.
However...and this is where things get interesting...
The 1210's bass is stunning - the particular lp mentioned above has lots of really deep bass synth which is nearly always playing just before or after the main beat, giving a sense of 'swing' to use a vague description - it's 'funkier' in other words. Addictive in fact.
For a 'cheap' (and it is cheap - in terms of £££) Japanese DD turntable to get this close, totally bog-standard (bar using the NAS Spacemat with Ringmat on top) to easily the best, most musical turntable I've owned in 30 years, is starting to go down as possibly the biggest wake-up call this year. :)
The bass is the clue Richard. The TT drive system is up to the job. The shortcomings are likely to be elsewhere ie mat/arm/cartridge etc
I love the Spacemat and deeply respect the Ringmat but NEVER thought to use them together.....
So the Technics thus equipped really is almost a match for a NAS turntable...? Bloomin' 'ell!
Guy - if this is what the OEM arm is capable of, as it came out of the box, then I'll be quite stunned at what a better one is able to do. :)
I've just put the Teccy back in place and set up the Lyra very carefully (the arm's vtf markings are spot-on with my digital stylus gauge which is comforting!) and it's now sounding a mite clearer than before.
DSJR - I only did this to try out, don't know if it really is ideal but I've just double-sided sticky-taped the Spacemat to the platter which has tightened things up a tad.
If my mate who let me borrow the 1210 can hang on a couple of weeks I should be popping over to Ray's to have listen to his full-KAB Technics soon - will have to take this std one with me...would be churlish not to ;)
Hi Richard,
Nice one. I must somehow get to listen to NVA amps. Mr Dunn was somewhat 'inflexible' in this regard unless I bought them first! I heard the Albarrys, which I loved and which Richard said were good but not as good as NVA amps, so if they're better than the Albarrys then I'm sure I would love them. Of course, I'm firmly in the 'valve camp' now, but I'm still curious to know what the NVAs sound like. I just like increasing my hi-fi listening experience :)Quote:
It had to happen - went for broke and bought Jerry's mint condition A80 mono's.
Need to sell the little A30 power now and get onto saving for a pair of A40's to bi-amp.
I don't doubt it. The NAS *is* a bloody good T/T, however I'm pretty confident modifying the 1210 as I've described to you before would eradicate those weaknesses. Basically, a better tonearm (or modifying the existing one) and the addition of the off-board PSU would sort it out - the remainder of the modifications to ancillaries being merely 'icing on the cake'.Quote:
Oh, and while we're here...
Just re-positioned the Spacedeck and sat down to some more tunes.
Verdict? Same obsvervations apply re the sound of the 1210 vs the NAS - the NAS is clearer, better organised - the music in this instance is Eddie Daniels 'Blackwood' with ED's Clarinet having quicker, more 'bubbly' articulation. Phrases and breaks are easier to follow, there's a greater sense of progress and brio and where the Technics would lose grip slightly on musical dynamics (ie if a phrase is pushed harder) the NAS definitely has greater headroom.
This is one of the areas where the SL-1210 (and other quality direct-drives) excel, and again it's because of highly accurate speed stability, and most importantly, the massively superior torque of a direct-drive motor compared to what's used in most belt-drives.Quote:
However...and this is where things get interesting...
The 1210's bass is stunning - the particular lp mentioned above has lots of really deep bass synth which is nearly always playing just before or after the main beat, giving a sense of 'swing' to use a vague description - it's 'funkier' in other words. Addictive in fact.
Think of a diesel engine versus a petrol one; the way the diesel engine 'pulls' much better going uphill, particularly when driving into the wind, or when towing a load. The SL-1210 does a similar trick with bass-lines in music and just doesn't allow 'difficult conditions' (i.e. the reproduction of more demanding bass notes) to slow down the momentum of the music - it just grabs hold of such bass notes, exerting phenomenal control, and 'pulls them into line' so that they are reproduced tightly, deeply, and accurately, without 'flab' or the ponderous quality one often hears with poorer quality belt-drive T/Ts. You also get increased 'weight' and extension. This is all down to the torque of the D/D mechanism.
The fact is the coloration which some people like (say for example in LP12s) is largely bass notes not being properly controlled and the resulting 'softness' colouring the midrange and creating a euphonic effect which is pleasing to some people's ears. This is somewhat lovingly referred to as 'tunefulness'. The fact however is that there is nothing 'tuneful' about it - it is merely a form of distortion present due to inaccuracies in the reproduction process. Like I've said before, what you get with a good D/D deck is a neutral platform from which to hear music reproduced accurately with as little coloration of the signal as possible - any coloration that exists comes mainly from the partnering arm and cartridge!
Yes, I had a similar 'wake up call' when I heard a quality direct-drive turntable for the first time, and I would now use nothing else. Once your ears become attuned to the coloration low to medium mass belt-drive T/Ts impose on the sound there is no going back. I've addressed the "cheap" issue of the 1210 on my thread about T/T mechanisms and the Grand Prix Monaco direct-drive T/T reviewed by Roy Gregory in Hi-Fi+. "Cheap Japanese DD turntable" is simply a misnomer.Quote:
For a 'cheap' (and it is cheap - in terms of £££) Japanese DD turntable to get this close, totally bog-standard (bar using the NAS Spacemat with Ringmat on top) to easily the best, most musical turntable I've owned in 30 years, is starting to go down as possibly the biggest wake-up call this year.
If I were you, Richard, I would seriously think about selling the NAS and using the money to buy a fully modified KAB SL-1210. Trust me, you won't regret it. Because now that you've had a small taste of what the 1210 can do you won't satisfied until you experience the full effect everytime you play records!
Perhaps we should do an NVA amp/1210 listening session when you move to your new house? I'm sure that would be interesting for both of us :smoking:
Marco.
What's the general consensus re the arm on the 1210? From what I'm hearing with my own ears, the OEM one is pretty good - it's doing a decent enough job of keeping my Lyra in check, and the tracking is clean enough; highly modulated piano strikes cause a tiny amount of break-up but saying that I've not heard the particular example I have in mind sound clean on any turntable.
Couple (OK 3) of reasons for keeping the standard arm, should I go for a new 1210...
1. I can easily keep a spare headshell with a cheap cartridge in so my daughter will be able to play records.
2. It feels like a quality item, despite the journos being slightly dismissive of it.
3. It looks cool, like all S-shaped arms.
LOL. Let's cut to the nitty gritty, Richard. Are you seriously thinking of getting as SL-1210? Then we can deal with the issue of arms :)
Btw, the journos know jack shit about the stock arm.
Marco.
Rich
I would imagine that the re-wire is the killer upgrade for the stock arm, J7 may be able to perform the necessary surgery there, the fluid damper can be bought off the shelf from Kevin (KAB) and easily installed, add a custom counterweight, a nice headshell/leads and your away! As good as, if not better than a tecnoarm....and cooler looking of course!
I think it's WAY better than that, Nick! Thus modified, I'd put it more into RB1000/SME IV territory, myself, but with a different style of sound.Quote:
As good as, if not better than a tecnoarm....and cooler looking of course!
Marco.
Hi Marco - yes, I am serious about getting a 1210 and just trying to weigh-up the various permutations of what to get. Sure I could just order up a new fully-modded KAB from the States which would cost around the same as I'd get for my NAS. However I really like the idea of getting one here (I see a nearly new one went on eBay for 180 quid the other day) then doing the mods to it as time goes on - always nice to tweak in stages I think, simply because it's fun. :)
I would also be happy to run a standard one for quite a while - the one I'm using isn't in its first flush of youth yet still works perfectly.
That would certainly be interesting Richard! Still on for our get together - will be in touch nearer the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromit
Ok, Richard, I'm with you on the "it's nice to tweak in stages" bit, and mostly that won't be a problem. Like Scoobs says, J7 could sort out the arm rewire for you, and the fluid damper can be bought from KAB and fitted yourself, etc, but sorting out the off-board PSU could be more tricky, and IMO it's what makes the biggest difference of all the mods by a country mile. I don't think it's the easiest thing in the world to fit and that's pretty much why I decided just to get the whole lot from KAB.Quote:
Hi Marco - yes, I am serious about getting a 1210 and just trying to weigh-up the various permutations of what to get. Sure I could just order up a new fully-modded KAB from the States which would cost around the same as I'd get for my NAS. However I really like the idea of getting one here (I see a nearly new one went on eBay for 180 quid the other day) then doing the mods to it as time goes on - always nice to tweak in stages I think, simply because it's fun. :)
I would also be happy to run a standard one for quite a while - the one I'm using isn't in its first flush of youth yet still works perfectly.
You could email Kevin from KAB and have a word with him about it and see what's involved: info@kabusa.com
But whatever you do make sure fitting the off-board PSU is one of your priority upgrades - I cannot stress this enough - because its effect is very significant and one of major reasons why my 1210 sounds so good.
I think your question before about the arm has been pretty much answered, so have no fears about using the stock one and having it rewired and modified as discussed. As you can hear yourself at the moment, even without modifications, the stock arm is pretty good, but it's night and day differences once the arm has been modified as discussed. At the moment you're probably only hearing about 70% of its true potential.
The other thing to note is when buying a 1210 I would go for a new one, simply because they're cheap enough anyway and at least then you know 100% for sure it's not been 'DJ'd to death'. I would advise you to go for the MK5G (the top model) as it has a higher quality tonearm than the rest and looks nicer too, IMO.
Ok, I think that covers it but if you have any other questions then fire away! :smoking:
Marco.
Thanks for the tips Marco - really appreciate it. :)
Been looking at the Mk5G which seems to be available for just over 400 quid on the www (in the UK) if I shop around. Does look rather cool with the gloss top plate and silver/Ti arm.
What's also helped is the NVA A80 mono's really cleaning up the bottom end - these, with their grip and control, in combination with the 1210's bass performance, has made for some quite exciting listening. Had some 180g Depeche Mode lp's on this afternoon and the bass is just so faaaaaaaast.
Looking forward to it Ray - and having heard your rig before I thing it's going to be a hoot. Your speakers with the 1210's bottom end - oooh yes. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ray70
You're very welcome, mate. If there's anything else I can help with just let me know :smoking:Quote:
Thanks for the tips Marco - really appreciate it. :)
The MK5G is total class. When you lift it nice and shiny out of its box for the first time you'll marvel at the sheer quality of the engineering and no doubt manage a quiet chuckle to yourself at getting hold of something so phenomenally well made for around £485... ;)
Marco.
Hi Marco - just been checking out the Mk5G on the Technics website. Only differences between that and the Mk2 seem to be the greater range of VTF and bias adjustment and the OFC arm wiring? I think I actually prefer the more understated look of the Mk2 tbh, unless of course there's more to the 5G's differences than I've realised?
Hi Richard,
Have a look at the KAB website:
http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/index.htm
Click on 'Parts' where it says 'Special Edition Technics', and scroll down to where it shows the various arm wands.
You'll notice that the price of the MK5G wand is double that of the others. If you also look very closely you'll see that it's a different colour and finish (sort of a 'yellowy' matt finish as opposed to shiny silver). That's because it's titanium constructed as opposed to the machined aluminium of the other wands. The result is that the MK5G armtube is more rigid, which of course impacts on performance.
The other thing, as you mentioned, is it has OFC wiring and high quality phono plugs fitted, as opposed to the dire quality wiring and plugs used in the standard arm and T/T, which you might find a sufficient upgrade without going to the expense of having the arm rewired with Cardas cable. At least you'll be able to compare the effect first against the arm in your friend's 1210 and then decide yourself if you think Cardas rewiring is warranted. The difference between standard and OFC wiring together with the plugs used should be significant - just a thought :)
But if you prefer the cleaner looks of the MK2 then go for it :smoking:
Marco.
Rich I spotted this technics 120 on ebay, looks very nice and SME ready, in nice minimalist MK2 guise too.
Technics SL-120
This arm would mate nicely, I very nearly bought it myself.
SME 3009
Two nice items there, Scoobs.
Any idea when you'll need the A23 yet, and what have you decided to do about your tonearm cable? :)
Marco.
Erm, I'm hoping to get my amp this week, maybe as early as wednesday (fingers crossed, but I wont hold my breath). My man reckons I can use my 103 straight in, which is a little odd for a mm stage, but he should know. He also has a headamp I can use for comparison, so if everything goes to plan I would like to borrow it next week if that's OK.
Yesterday I bagged some Townshend Isolda 300dct cables at a good price from Dave (he's around here somewhere), one tonearm cable with a cardas din and a second 'regular' pair, which is a bonus! I'm looking forward to getting these.
Nay probs - just let me know. I'm not sure about the MM thing, though... But I'm sure you'll keep us suitably informed!Quote:
Erm, I'm hoping to get my amp this week, maybe as early as wednesday (fingers crossed, but I wont hold my breath). My man reckons I can use my 103 straight in, which is a little odd for a mm stage, but he should know. He also has a headamp I can use for comparison, so if everything goes to plan I would like to borrow it next week if that's OK.
Marco.