Printable View
Oh I have, 25 years of traveling around dealers, believe me :)Quote:
Originally Posted by purite audio
A very varied bunch and Richer are by no means disgraced.
ESL57 aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but where they excel they are unbeatable IMO.
Where do they excel would you say?
Mid band transparency, palpable in-room presence on vocals and delicacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by purite audio
Problems are bass dynamics, an annoying panel resonance down at 90hz and off axis performance.
They work best used as giant headphones, or very large near-field monitors.
And the treble softness doesn't help either, but the midrange, vocals and imagery are simply stunning.
I'm rather impressed by alot of vintage stuff and have far too much of it
i've owned lots of valve amps (and still do) including many of the classics
the best 'bought' amp i've owned was a radford sta15 mk3.. very nice sound into lowthers or yam ns1000's..
but loads more amps have come close, a rebuit pye mosart, quad 2's to name a few, i have a pair of 57's which have a really good midrange but nothing at the extremes.. and a rare pair of quad corner ribbons, that show the electrostatics where not really an improvement on corner ribbons, but a move to 'in house' production (as they used goodmans drivers).. but the 57's where half the price ...
i have an 80's deck which was expensive in its day, but was bought for the price of a good budget one.. and puts many other decks to shame..
i have also heard new £5k valve amps that i would not give house room to.. as they have sounded coloured and loose....no flabby
with all gear it about understanding what does what..
old valves are better than new ones.. same with many transformers.. but in my experence that cannot be said about old caps and resistors..
so a rebuit vintage amp will sound far more modern afer a total strip out
i've done it..
i like the comments above about moden teckno music sounding better through solid state..
...sound reproduction is more 'real' through valves..
by that.. i mean closer to whats on the disk..
I play losts of modern music at 100+dbs with a couple of watts a side..
deep very tight bass.. i would do .. with 2 x12" bass drivers a channel..
no bi-amping.. no real crossovers.. all on a single 2 or 3 watt triode valve...
it is about getting a good combination of equipment that works together
its knowing what does what..
and most of what I read in the mags about valves.. is not my experence..
...nothing touches them..
some of the old gear is very good... and there was alot of crap..
just like you can buy today... nothings changed..
steve
Why buy vintage?
I think this relates just like any other second hand purchase, value for money IF you know what you are buying.
Personally I started out with second hand shops before there was eBay, I used to buy and resell or trade in for new equipment all the time, Edinburgh had a whole pile of second hand shops that sold anything and everything, and a lot of those goods were high quality audio components.
This was late 80's early 90's, I found out quite quickly that at that time HiFi year books and almanacs were very usefull, and ended up with some very nice stuff over the years, and I also ended up regreting selling a lot once I saw eBay prices.
Would half of that stuff be as good now, I don't think so, electronics and speakers suffer with age like anything else, and now too much stuff is sold on the basis of internet hype, and bought either by old ones with sentimental ideas, and no memory of how it souned new, or by youngsters who buy the internet hype.
A classic example is my speakers, Kef R107, which sadly WILL not sound at their best with anything less than a high quality solid state power amp, serviced drivers, and a serviced Kube, yet we constantly hear of these old speakers on eBay doing things such a speaker would become incapable of without a full service history. Spendor BC1's again, I find old ones easily beaten by later Rogers Studio 1's, not to mention the amount of basterdised LS3/5a speakers out there with the wrong spec drivers refitted to damaged LS3/5a by people keen to take advatage of eBay prices and the online reviews this small speaker designed for voice reproduction in a van got.
I used to buy these and Linn Kans for around £25 to £45 a pair in the second hand shops! Now look at ebay prices?
Old electronics and speakers suffer with age, pratically anything without a service history wil not be up to spec or sound as intended.
The best thing about buying second hand and vintage though, is that many do still purchase such because they want to, not because of dealer and magazine opinion.
Personally I think all second hand is better than new stuff, manufacturers are just taking the piss with no real advances in musical performance, its all getting poorer in build and value for money has went down the pan.
Rob, there are good reasons why the ESL can sound a bit soft and rolled up top, at least with some amps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Filterlab
The ESL57 drops to around 1 ohm at HF. Driven with a stable solid state amp with low output impedance this isn't a problem. The issue arises when you try to drive them with a tube amp where the output impedance is usually higher. In this situation the power transfer function worsens with rising frequency, hence the often heard roll-off.
The ESL57 I have here actually sound wonderful up top driven by a SS amp.
I have always felt that even the bigger Quads ultimately sound better with ( very good )SS amps.
I sometimes feel the obsession with valve power amps arises from the need to make dynamic tweeters sound less horrible.
That was why I designed these GM70 monoblocks, to drive some large electrostatics. The problem I find with SS driving statics is unless the amp has a very refined top end the panels will reveal the hardness in the top.Quote:
The ESL57 drops to around 1 ohm at HF. Driven with a stable solid state amp with low output impedance this isn't a problem. The issue arises when you try to drive them with a tube amp where the output impedance is usually higher. In this situation the power transfer function worsens with rising frequency, hence the often heard roll-off.
Nelson Pass F4's do a very good job of driving statics as well.
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/images/gm70/gm70_front.jpg
Nick that amp looks fantastic, what are the dimensions and weight , and who are 'toppsounds'? Keith.