Cassette's Not Dead, Apparently!

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Originally Posted by DSJR

Give me a decent high-speed reel to reel, DAT and, better still, a decent CDR anyday (accepting that even some of those can be unreliable if you're unlucky).

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Ooooh... don't get me started!

Agreed on the reel to reel point Dave, but in my experience both DAT and CDR are awful for longevity. DAT drops out badly over time, even if not played, and CDR has such reliability issues - I've lost umpteen CDR's from disc oxidisation.

I'm with Dolph on this. All my old tapes seem to be immune to the affects of time. I've played a reasonable number of 35 year old cassette's over the years and they've sounded great. I would have no hopes of DAT or CDR surviving that long in playable condition :)

As an aside to this, the latest edition of Hi-Fi World has a feature, by David Price, celebrating the 30th anniversary of the launch of the Sony Walkman. Provides a fairly comprehensive history of these cassette portables and makes it clear what D P's views are on the matter of sonics.:)
"Properly set up, the top Sonys were second to only high end open reel and vinyl sonically, delivering a body blow to any digital sources. Those who dismiss them don't know what they're missing"

Might have to wire the sony sports up to my main system then!

See if it can keep up with my modded 1210:)

Ive got a couple of hours free tomorrow and the mrs is out......

How old are you guys?

The Walkman fluttered terribly when used on batteries and even the 'Pro version so beloved of the "in crowd," had terminal flutter on battery power (sold a few and they were all the same.) The performance was only about baby Nak quality as well - the three head Naks clearly outperforming it. Try recording an oboe at the beginning of a tape on many of these machines and listen to the "tearing" quality the timbre acquires.

I have CDR's going back around 15 years so far and don't have any failures as yet. All my cassettes not recorded on metal tape have Dolby B mistracking errors - Ah:doh: I've just realised that you purists didn't use Dolby, so if the treble gets shaved off it won't be as noticeable :ner:...... But what about the hiss I ask? Well, if you don't think vinyl has a problem, then a noisy cassette won't be too much of a problem I suppose :lolsign::smoking::cool:

TDK metal tape with die cast aluminium housing, Type MA-R

Following the thread on a reported re-interest in cassette recording, does anybody know of a source of the following?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3139/...f96899.jpg?v=0

These are cassettes of TDK MA metal tape housed in a cast-aluminium body. These tapes run more smoothly than versions using the conventional housing, and are thus very good for copying piano, where the slightest trace of wow and flutter can be intrusive. Recordings I have made of piano concertos using this tape are indistinguishable from the source CD.

My Nakamichi cassette recorders are specifically biased for TDK metal tape, so I am looking for a source of these tapes – the MA-R version is the ideal.

I suspect that this might be a fruitless enquiry; I imagine now that TDK stopped making tape, anybody knowing of any sources will be keeping that information to themselves. One can but try and appeal to the tape enthusiasts out there.

Regards
Barry

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Originally Posted by DSJR

Well, if you don't think vinyl has a problem, then a noisy cassette won't be too much of a problem I suppose :lolsign::smoking::cool:

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Here is a fragment from a recording, made in 1964, digitized (without any processing) in 24 bit 88.2 kHz from a cassette tape recorded in 1989 - I've got it from ebay for a fiver. The file is 60 Mb zipped (2 min long).

44.1 kHz 16 bit - "CD quality" is simply not good enough compared with a quality cassette recording. 88.2 kHz or 96 kHz 24 bit is required.

Alex

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Originally Posted by barry.d.hunt

TDK metal tape with die cast aluminium housing, Type MA-R

Following the thread on a reported re-interest in cassette recording, does anybody know of a source of the following?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3139/...f96899.jpg?v=0

These are cassettes of TDK MA metal tape housed in a cast-aluminium body. These tapes run more smoothly than versions using the conventional housing, and are thus very good for copying piano, where the slightest trace of wow and flutter can be intrusive. Recordings I have made of piano concertos using this tape are indistinguishable from the source CD.

My Nakamichi cassette recorders are specifically biased for TDK metal tape, so I am looking for a source of these tapes – the MA-R version is the ideal.

I suspect that this might be a fruitless enquiry; I imagine now that TDK stopped making tape, anybody knowing of any sources will be keeping that information to themselves. One can but try and appeal to the tape enthusiasts out there.

Regards
Barry

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These are the holy grail of tapes and thus are now big money on flea bay. If you find a supply you can let Nick and myself know, and we can share the booty ;) or not as the case may be. Seriously I now regret not buying more of these when I had the chance. A number of years ago a local Top tape dealer (remember those)..decided to retire, he ran a record/cd shop as well I dare say he had loads of these and similar for sale, oh to have a time machine. Only a couple of years ago :(:(:(

TDK and all still making tapes as far as I know(someone correct me if I am wrong) stopped making anything like this quite a few years ago. Blank Cd and Mini Disc was the replacement (now these are vanishing to as quality items. Cheap and cheerful now the norm or so it seems). I was able to buy some packs of TDK SA90 made in Japan a few years ago in a record shop in Dundee, but they didn't have any when I went back last year....only ferric. I bought 4 packs of 5. Hind sight is a wonderful thing.


Regards D S D L

Quote:

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Here is a fragment from a recording, made in 1964, digitized (without any processing) in 24 bit 88.2 kHz from a cassette tape recorded in 1989 - I've got it from ebay for a fiver. The file is 60 Mb zipped (2 min long).

44.1 kHz 16 bit - "CD quality" is simply not good enough compared with a quality cassette recording. 88.2 kHz or 96 kHz 24 bit is required.

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Hi Alex,

Apart from your link not working for me (so, sorry, can't listen to the fragment), I'm with you 100% and am in no doubt whatsoever that cassette done well completely outperforms CD done well, much as does vinyl with the latter. Basically, analogue (tape or vinyl) done well is invariably superior to most of what digital has to offer. After all, that's why master tape exists...

Quite simply, analogue is the format which offers the more faithful carrier of music for human ears (not measurement apparatus). I'd rather suffer a few clicks and pops and a little tape hiss than listen to 'crystal clear' music which has been mangled in its transfer to CD.

Dave,

You need to get those 'ol cloth lugs of yours syringed some day soon! :ner: :eyebrows:

Nice tapes, btw. I use those sometimes with my CR-7.

Marco.

P.S Oh, and I'm 43.

I don't think many, if anybody, will disagree with me in the statement that "no matter how we combine gear for listening, it will end up as a compromise".

As is it with the choise between CD or Cassette / digital or analog.
Both choises are compromising.

In general:
The Achilles' heel og analog is noise and hiss.
The Achilles' heel of digital is lack of microdynamic, details and definition of room in the material.

With hiss on tapes you can try to eliminate it as much as possible with a good tape and good machine and craftmanship in the recording procedure.

If you choose to use double ended noise reduction such as Dolby B, C, S, dbx I, II or High Com etc., you will get the same Achilles' heel as in digital encoding; lack of details and microdetails.

These problems will also show up if saturating tape close to the limit.

One trick of great recordings is to saturate close to 0 to +3dB in the peaks measured after eq. on all tapes after as many skilled allignments as possible.
This is a far lower recording saturation than most people will use and recommend.
Some people are surprised of the low level but at the same time surprised about richness, details, dynamics and other positive qualities in my recordings.

If best there will have been done Eq and Rec Level (for each speed if more than one), for each channel and for PB and Recording seperately and Bias (for each speed if more than one) and for each channel and adjustment of azimuth on recording head as well.

Even in the recording procedure there are lots of compromises but it is possible to end up with a sound on a cassette deck on a good tape unbeatable by any CD player in existense present or historical.

HX-pro, Dyneq, Actilinear recording, DNL, dbx 929 and similar single ended NR systems, headroom expanders and other patented technologies are welcomining the greatnes of sound.

Thing is that so very few people ever had the chance to listen to a good cassette machine and even fewer had the chance to listen to a recording made by someone who knew what he was dealing with on this same great cassette machine.

Only a handful or two of brands and specific models of cassette machines qualify for being great.
The rest was merely mediocre or entry level machines.
In the latter case, I'm not surprised that people prefer CD.

"dolph"

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Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L

These are the holy grail of tapes and thus are now big money on flea bay. If you find a supply you can let Nick and myself know, and we can share the booty ;) or not as the case may be. Seriously I now regret not buying more of these when I had the chance. A number of years ago a local Top tape dealer (remember those)..decided to retire, he ran a record/cd shop as well I dare say he had loads of these and similar for sale, oh to have a time machine. Only a couple of years ago :(:(:(

TDK and all still making tapes as far as I know(someone correct me if I am wrong) stopped making anything like this quite a few years ago. Blank Cd and Mini Disc was the replacement (now these are vanishing to as quality items. Cheap and cheerful now the norm or so it seems). I was able to buy some packs of TDK SA90 made in Japan a few years ago in a record shop in Dundee, but they didn't have any when I went back last year....only ferric. I bought 4 packs of 5. Hind sight is a wonderful thing.


Regards D S D L

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I think the TDK MA-R cassettes cost about £4 each, when I bought a few of them back in the early eighties. Later, I passed up on the opportunity to buy a 10- or a 12- pack of these tapes for about £50; money was short for me in those days!:doh:

For a long time now I have been happy to use TDK FE as a replacement for TDK AR. This is a ferric tape and is/was very cheap: a pack of 5 C90s costing less than £4. I bought loads to to make recordings/compilations for the car, as well as making (illegal) copies of stuff I had borrowed from friends or from the library. I'm starting to run out now and am not sure if it is still available. HMV and Maplins used to sell it. If I can't get any more I'll have to reuse some of the 200 cassettes that I have - there must be some old recordings that I won't be playing any more.

Ah yes - if only we had a time machine, not only would we all be buying up Thorens, Garrard, Decca, Leak and Radford gear; but I for one would go back to 1920's Chicago, armed with a Nagra and some good microphones to make some decent recordings of King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band. There's probably some cosmic principle which would prevent such a thing happening, but it doesn't seem to stop the Doctor.

Oh well, if I can't get any more casssette tape, then it's down to the Nagra. I have about a dozen metal-spooled Ferrograph 'Pyral' tapes to use - I'm sure Nick would approve.

Regards
Barry