Shuggie's SL-1210 Blog Revived

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Originally Posted by Marco

Whilst I'm in no position to question what you're hearing (and what Gromit is, too - and respect to him for going so far with his 1210) I can't help but suspect that the reason both of you aren't/weren't as 'sold' on the 1210 as many others and myself are is because neither of you used it/are using it with a tonearm that compliments the 1210's sonic signature. Both of you are/were using Rega derivatives, which in my experience are not a good match.

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Perhaps I should make a grotty plywood armboard for the SL-1210, like I have on the Kenwood, instead of using the Origin Live one, in order to fully compare like with like. That aside, I'm not sure that I agree with you about Rega-sourced arms, since I have used the Tecnoarm on a variety of decks and am quite familiar with its traits and performance; and I am certainly not going to be blowing a not inconsiderable wad of cash on a Jelco on the offchance that it can salvage some music from the SL-1210. You are, of course, using a cartridge that requires a very particular tonearm compatibility - my Ortofons are bang on spec for the Tecnoarm (indeed the 2M seems to have been designed with a Rega arm in mind).

I believe that what Gromit and I have found, independently, is that the Technics suffers from an inherent musical greyness, even though it is superficially very impressive in parts.

It would be very interesting to pitch a fettled SL-1210 against a Project Genie!

As I said above, I am not yet finished with the Technics, since I want to try the Paul Hynes PSU on it.

If you change the PSU, and that has to be done properly, you may want to change the motor dynamics too, this will change the character. The old Micro Seiki's had different dynamics as my newly acquired DQX-1000 is showing me!

No particular system is outright best for all people and all music all of the time. To get much closer to the Garrard and Ortofon, a SL-1210 with SA-250ST and AT-OC9ML/II would be a more organic solution.

Dave

Or an SA-750D and a DL-103SA, as you'll hear next week ;)

Marco.

Hi Shuggie,

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Perhaps I should make a grotty plywood armboard for the SL-1210, like I have on the Kenwood, instead of using the Origin Live one, in order to fully compare like with like.

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Why not? New information is always of benefit and of interest to people :)

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That aside, I'm not sure that I agree with you about Rega-sourced arms, since I have used the Tecnoarm on a variety of decks and am quite familiar with its traits and performance; and I am certainly not going to be blowing a not inconsiderable wad of cash on a Jelco on the offchance that it can salvage some music from the SL-1210.

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That's fair enough as it's your money. I'm not slating Rega-type arms on other decks, where they can work very well, but experience has told me that they don't form a good marriage with the 1210 - where Jelcos, SMEs and Roksan Nimas give better results to my ears and seemingly also to those of many others. I also think a Naim Aro would work very well on a 1210, should one consider that it offers value for money compared to a Nima.

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You are, of course, using a cartridge that requires a very particular tonearm compatibility - my Ortofons are bang on spec for the Tecnoarm (indeed the 2M seems to have been designed with a Rega arm in mind).

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Absolutely - no argument there.

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I believe that what Gromit and I have found, independently, is that the Technics suffers from an inherent musical greyness, even though it is superficially very impressive in parts.

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I believe that, too, as both of you have reported it most eloquently. However, in my opinion, the "musical greyness" you refer to is not an inherent trait of the deck itself but rather the sum of its constituent parts as used in your system. I can assure you that this signature is not present with the 1210 in my system. There will of course be numerous explanations for this, but experience strongly suggests that the tonearm I'm using, for example, is significantly responsible for the difference.

As an aside, I have yet to hear one of these revered PL-71s, so I can offer no comment on how it sounds, but at some point I would dearly love to do so in direct comparison to my 1210, either in my own system or in someone else's.

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It would be very interesting to pitch a fettled SL-1210 against a Project Genie!

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LOL. The least said about that the better! ;)

Marco.

No Marco, your solution is not to everyone's taste! It can't be the same as a 250 and OC9. It is different, it should be. Not everyone likes the same as you. My belief is that some would prefer the 250 and OC9, don't pressurise them into something different!! And please don't argue, it is different, not better!

If I'm constantly told that yours is the only system, I shall have to stop giving advice!

Dave

Oi, calm down... ;)

I was only offering alternative examples from your product range, as you seem to promote the 250ST and Audio Technica, mostly. I'm not pressurising anyone!

I believe that the 750 is the better arm, and by a reasonable margin. The cartridge of course is very much down to personal taste :)

Marco.

Yes, but........... The OC9 works better on the 250, trust me. Shuggie wanted a more organic sound and liked the Garrad and Ortofon, and if that's what he likes, then the 250 and OC9 will suite him down to the ground. Less money for me, but a happy bunny. Of course, others will prefer the 103SA and 750, and they do go together well, and I have a trick up my sleeve, no you will have to wait 3 weeks before I tell you.........

I believe in listening to people likes, dislikes and then making a suggestion based on that, not forever plugging my own preferred soultion. There is not a "do all" system that fits everyone.

Dave

I'm not "forever plugging my own solution" - merely expressing an opinion like you. I think you'll find my response to Shuggie was open-minded and considered.

Marco.

Steady on Marco! I find Dave's points to be most helpful. I do use his Time Step PSU, and clearly he does know a thing or two about the Technics. He's quite right - we are all individuals with individual tastes, not to mention how we actually hear and perceive music.

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......... you may want to change the motor dynamics too, this will change the character. The old Micro Seiki's had different dynamics as my newly acquired DQX-1000 is showing me!

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Dave - can you explain a bit further?

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Originally Posted by Marco

LOL. The least said about that the better! ;)

Marco.

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I was being serious about the Genie.

Dave and I had a misunderstanding over the word "organic" - now sorted :)

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...we are all individuals with individual tastes, not to mention how we actually hear and perceive music.

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Indeed so. This was the basis of what I wrote in my last reply to you #14 (and #6).

Marco.