Vantage Audio Technics SL-1210 PCB upgrade & PSU

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Originally Posted by chris@panteg

Well it is subjective Dave , not sure what any technical stats would prove ? Linn have managed well enough without it ?

If Steve is very happy with these upgrades , then so what , are you looking to have a dig , perhaps your in cahoots with the prime minister of tech mr Cawley .

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Not at all, and he'd be the first to admit it ;)

Linn actually had their LP12 measured on many occasions and the wow figures and modest slowing under load were published for all to see. The choice of felt mat was often discussed too, as well as a typical Colloms "hint" that the slightly brash Ittok was a perfect match to the old "Fruitbox" at the time :)

It's just that there are many "me too" Techie upgrades available now, and surely there must be proper valid reasons for why they supposedly outperform the standard article. To DC's credit, he's provided reasoned arguments as to what his mods do, and I suspect the PH supplies really begin to make sense if the bearing and platter are so substantially changed by the drastically increased mass of the spinning platter that a significantly uprated supply is needed.

Now there's another UK suplier of Techie tweaks. Nowt at all wrong with that, but a purely subjective opinion is worthless to all but the person making the judgement IMO. I'm not having a go, but if so&so likes it, then so what? In what way is the deck altered, how does the new external supply compare with "just" taking the existing transformer out of the box and re-casing it? This new supply costs money. Surely (!) you wouldn't lash out hundreds of pounds on just an opinion, would you? Ooooops, I think most of us have done just that and lived to tell the tales :D

I'm really not having a go, but if a product is to stand or fall, "just" a personal opinion ain't enough IMO. OK, "Art of Sound" and all that, but I've done enough tweaks in the past to various audio items which have altered the basic recipe, but not actually taken the design forward, that's all. Forgive my seeming to be negative, I'm not, honest guv :)

I think the principle behind a stronger psu and an external one is simple isnt it?
The transformer is removed from the platter to eliminate vibration and beefier caps are fitted to cope with the high load demands. How that is executed might very from one engineer to another but a good subjective test would be to compare one psu to another and choose which one does the job best. End of story.:ner:

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Originally Posted by colinB

I think the principle behind a stronger psu and an external one is simple isnt it?
The transformer is removed from the platter to eliminate vibration and beefier caps are fitted to cope with the high load demands. How that is executed might very from one engineer to another but a good subjective test would be to compare one psu to another and choose which one does the job best. End of story.:ner:

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If only it was that simple! There have been rumblings about trying and comparing different power supplies for the last year and nothing has been done yet. :doh:

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Originally Posted by DSJR

Not at all, and he'd be the first to admit it ;)

Linn actually had their LP12 measured on many occasions and the wow figures and modest slowing under load were published for all to see. The choice of felt mat was often discussed too, as well as a typical Colloms "hint" that the slightly brash Ittok was a perfect match to the old "Fruitbox" at the time :)

It's just that there are many "me too" Techie upgrades available now, and surely there must be proper valid reasons for why they supposedly outperform the standard article. To DC's credit, he's provided reasoned arguments as to what his mods do, and I suspect the PH supplies really begin to make sense if the bearing and platter are so substantially changed by the drastically increased mass of the spinning platter that a significantly uprated supply is needed.

Now there's another UK suplier of Techie tweaks. Nowt at all wrong with that, but a purely subjective opinion is worthless to all but the person making the judgement IMO. I'm not having a go, but if so&so likes it, then so what? In what way is the deck altered, how does the new external supply compare with "just" taking the existing transformer out of the box and re-casing it? This new supply costs money. Surely (!) you wouldn't lash out hundreds of pounds on just an opinion, would you? Ooooops, I think most of us have done just that and lived to tell the tales :D

I'm really not having a go, but if a product is to stand or fall, "just" a personal opinion ain't enough IMO. OK, "Art of Sound" and all that, but I've done enough tweaks in the past to various audio items which have altered the basic recipe, but not actually taken the design forward, that's all. Forgive my seeming to be negative, I'm not, honest guv :)

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No i quite agree , i shouldn't go by someone's opinion ? Though unfortunately and maybe to my cost i have done in the past ;) But that's my problem :) but i think the key point to make is that Richard is prepared to put his money where his mouth is and if I'm not satisfied , i can return the upgrade !

I will ask him tomorrow if perhaps he could provide some technical explanation or set of results , though i have a feeling he might say that their meaningless , dunno though .

Just put a test disc on, measure the speed and do an FM demodulation so you can see the spread. Then you'll know if the various power supplies 'improve' the 1210 or just alter it. Nothing wrong with 'tuning' your deck if that's what you want, I'm not interested in anyone else's idea of good sound, just my own.

DSJR,

The SR5-21 is not just for use with the high mass platter upgrades. It works very well on the standard platter versions too.

Paul

Thank you Paul and fellas :peace:

Dave,

I was not criticising, just clarifying. There is a lot more to the SL1200 power supply system than just the mass of the platter.

Regards
Paul

It is not just DDs which improve with a better PSU.

A real eye opener to me was years ago when my original Alphason Sonata was up graded by adding the later Hercules PSU (the one all the other manufactures copied!!!:stalks:). The difference was astounding, I just could not believe it.

Mike Knowles knew his stuff, and funnily enough as with his one piece tonearm, others copied immediately after.

I've known Richard VA) for years. He had the PSU upgrades before the Dartmouth operation had even discovered DDs, along with many other upgrades including EMT cartridges etc.

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Originally Posted by sq225917

Just put a test disc on, measure the speed and do an FM demodulation so you can see the spread. Then you'll know if the various power supplies 'improve' the 1210 or just alter it.

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Or alternatively, pour a nice glass of wine, sit back and spin some of your favourite tunes, trust your senses and let your ears tell you whether the new PSU makes a genuine improvement or not (my method) ;)

F*ck the 'test disc'.... I'd demonstrate to anyone, in a relevant comparison, how good the Paul Hynes SR5-21 PSU is that I use with my Techy. The stock PSU is but a toy in comparison. The SR5 annihilates it - and trust me, I *know* from experience what I'm talking about.

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Nothing wrong with 'tuning' your deck if that's what you want, I'm not interested in anyone else's idea of good sound, just my own.

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Same here, but it doesn't hurt to relate your experiences to others in the hope that it may be of use them, such is the purpose of forums like this....

No doubt the Vantage Audio upgrades are excellent - I trust Richard's expertise, even though I've not used one of his products. Sometimes you just have a gut feeling when someone knows what they're doing. I'll go with that before I'll take any notice of what is freakin' 'test disc' tells me.

Marco.