Gatorized Caiman, my first impressions

Steven,

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Originally Posted by Fi-Wi

Maybe someone technically informed here can tell me how this can be.

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well, this is not exactly an engineer’s statement, but it’s common wisdom in inaugurated circles that the AKG K701 are pigs to drive. Obviously the same cannot be claimed for your Superlux HD668-B.

Werner.

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Originally Posted by Aturion

When listening to some classic music I may have to "push" the knob almost all the way to the right to have enough power

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Been there, done this – no good :-)

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/dac_amp_cans.jpg

I’m curious how long it will take for you until you eventually end purchasing a dedicated stand-alone headphone amplifier.

Werner.

Thanks Werner

I'm considering a dedicated headphone amplifier if it's really a step up in quality over the caiman alone, I have some questions if you don't mind :)

-According to the pic, your schiit valhalla amplifier is plugged to the fixed line output of the caiman, can loudspeakers be plugged at the same time on the pre-amp output ?
-And also is your caiman "gatorized", and how better your dedicated amp sound referring to the caiman

I don't mind buying a dedicated amp but I would hate having to go back and forth before finding the good setup ;)

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Aturion

When listening to some classic music I may have to "push" the knob almost all the way to the right to have enough power

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Classical is a definite no-no with the Caiman as a headamp I'm afraid, you need a dedicated amp as Werner says. It just doesn't have enough grunt for Classical music, but it sure does sound sweet when feeding a headamp :)

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Originally Posted by Aturion

According to the pic, your schiit valhalla amplifier is plugged to the fixed line output of the caiman, can loudspeakers be plugged at the same time on the pre-amp output ?

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Yes, I think so, but I’ve never done it myself. I guess you plan to connect active (powered) loudspeakers to the Caiman’s variable line-out, correct? I’m sure that Stanley Beresford is watching this thread, and he should be able to reliably answer your question.

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Originally Posted by Aturion

And also is your caiman "gatorized", and how better your dedicated amp sound referring to the caiman

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Again: yes, my Caiman is “gatorized”. The second part of your question is a little bit hard to answer, since it’s difficult to describe sound with words, even more when attempting doing this in a language which is not my native language. Anyway, I’ll give it a try:

It’s not necessarily a benefit in pure loudness if you listen to a stand-alone headphone amplifier, but in volume, power and muscle. Sudden dynamic changes are handled by a dedicated amplifier with much more laid-back sovereignty. I notice a certain gloss, warmth and detail structure in my amplifier’s sound if I compare it to the Caiman’s headamp, but this is probably caused by the valves (tubes) used in my specific model of headamp.

I love to listen to piano trios composed by Franz Schubert, but only when played through my headamp I notice that the resonance bodies of violin, cello and grand piano are made of wood and I have the impression of being able to hear/feel each single hair of a violin bow striking the strings. Of course it’s the same music when played through the Caiman’s headamp, but the listening experience and the emotional touch are quite different.

If your budget allows this I highly recommend that you purchase a dedicated headphone amplifier. I promise you: Only then will you be able to realize that your Caiman DAC is an excellent piece of gear.

Just a warning: Although it’s claimed on the Schiit website that the Valhalla is a good match for the AKG K701 headphones, the Schiit Lyr works in much better synergy with the AKG K70x models. I’m not a technician, but I’ve read very often that OTL (output transformerless) valve (tube) amps like the Valhalla work much better with high impedance headphones. When comparing the sound of the AKG K701 (62 Ω) to the Beyerdynamic DT 990 (600 Ω) I have to confirm that this is true.

An excellent forum for headphones, DACs and computer audio is Head-Fi. There are a lot of threads covering the combination of AKG K70x headphones and various amplifiers. The theme of AKG K701 headphones and a Caiman DAC as headamp has also been discussed a few days ago in another thread in our local Art of Sound forum → here.

Werner.

Werner

I'm interested in your comments re heqdphones and head amps. I have a Caiman and find it satisfactory, but you are suggesting that there are even better things out there. I also ask myself "are they affordable?"

Is it worth (you, as the expert) starting another thread on headphone systems?

Best, Dave

As I mentioned in previous threads, the headphone section of the Caiman was not designed for high-end usage from the outset. It got upgraded with various tweaks in order to push it to handle high-end cans.

Dave,

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Originally Posted by dave2010

I have a Caiman and find it satisfactory

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well, that’s the best you can say about your equipment! Stay happy and enjoy each possible moment listening to the music you love.

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Originally Posted by dave2010

but you are suggesting that there are even better things out there

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I’m sure there will always be even better things out there, but if you are happy with what you have in the moment I really see no need for change.

In my case a little more than two years ago I happened to buy a pair of AKG K701 headphones which – as I later found out – are well-known for being quite picky in their requirements on the amplifier used to drive them. So I started my recherche and learned some interesting new things – which in the end let me switch to another headphone model, but that’s a different story :-) I’m sure there are a lot of other excellent headphone models which work quite well and satisfactory from the Caiman’s headphone plug, but in my humble personal opinion this was not true for the AKG K701.

As a side note: The idea that there might be even better things out there has accompanied me during my whole life – not only in affairs regarding the best possible and affordable reproduction of recorded music and sound. Maybe there a some astrological or psychological reasons for this, I have no idea. And of course each human being is different and has different priorities in life.

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Originally Posted by dave2010

I also ask myself "are they affordable?"

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That’s a very important question which nobody else than you shall be able to answer. It’s a matter of your budget and the importance of headphone listening for you. If you lean more towards listening to loudspeakers I would not add a dedicated headphone amplifier, but spend my money for purchasing LPs, CDs or visiting concerts instead (as I did yesterday hearing works of Ravel, Hindemith and Beethoven from an orchestra conducted by Dennis Russell Davies).

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Originally Posted by dave2010

Is it worth (you, as the expert) starting another thread on headphone systems?

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Under no cirumstances I’m an expert in this area, just a curious layperson with a lifelong passion for music. English is not my native language, and I have no technical background enabling me to really understand the underlying electrical and physical bases and principles. The Head-Fi forum I already mentioned is a rich source for information, sharing and exchanging of experiences and ideas.

Werner.

I made my mind, I'll pick up standalone head amp to go with my caiman - K 701, will leave some feedback when I get one

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Originally Posted by Aturion

I'll pick up standalone head amp to go with my caiman - K 701, will leave some feedback when I get one

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Great decision, congratulations! Please do return to this thread and share your impressions and experiences when using the K701 with a standalone amp.

Werner.