Matched valves? How important?

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Originally Posted by lurcher

Yes, but Mullard were not "over enginearing" the valves, they were trying to do what any production process does, optimise yield, reduce waste and improve consistancy. Making valves for mil use may be different as the increase acceleration and temperature requirtements would clearly help matters, but only at the expense of production cost, so Phillips would have only done what they saw as benificial to their profits in producing standard valves. I don't see that directly improving what we want from them. And it doesn't address the 1930's valve being so good.

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Like I said, I don't think it can be fully explained. At least not yet. We'll just have to hope that the sound quality of modern valves will gradually increase. Perhaps now that all the R&D is being but into that one area we'll eventually get valves that are even better than vintage ones. Like you said, many older valves weren't even developed for audio use. It would also be good if some new valve designs were developed using modern principles. Then a whole new type of valve amp could be designed. We've already proven that modern amp designs can outperform those from the time when valves were supposedly at their best. So maybe a whole new type of valve is the next step. :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy

So maybe a whole new type of valve is the next step. :eyebrows:

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There already is & you're not going to like it :eyebrows:

Mosfet ;)

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Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant

There already is & you're not going to like it :eyebrows:

Mosfet ;)

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Then I shall go forth and purchase some of these new fangled Mosfet valves that you speak of and insert them into my valve bases. I am sure the results will be spectacular. :wowzer:

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Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy

Then I shall go forth and purchase some of these new fangled Mosfet valves that you speak of and insert them into my valve bases. I am sure the results will be spectacular. :wowzer:

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Indeed, but only when you switch it on :lolsign:

In reality a Mosfet operates on a similar principle to valves, it's voltage controlled rather than current controlled as per transistors...

I'll leave you to get back to proper valves, apologies for the interuption Dave ;)

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Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant

Indeed, but only when you switch it on :lolsign:

In reality a Mosfet operates on a similar principle to valves, it's voltage controlled rather than current controlled as per transistors...

I'll leave you to get back to proper valves, apologies for the interuption Dave ;)

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Its voltage controlled I agree but there the difference ends. The important feature is the electrons are not traveling in a vaccum.

This is closer to a new type of valve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spindt_tip

Yes, i'd agree with you there 100% ;) Never come accross those before or even heard of them, well they say you learn something new every day :)

I like the bit about how they could be used as "space-vehicle neutralisers". :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy

I like the bit about how they could be used as "space-vehicle neutralisers". :eyebrows:

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Imagine the space age version of the Shake And Vac advert :-)

Interesting discussion, chaps :)

I think that there's quite a lot of hoodwinking going on in high-end audio, when it comes to the cryogenic treatment of things like valves and cables.

I mean, when it comes to valves, since that's what we're discussing here, how do you know for sure that they've actually been cryo'd? You've only got the word of the company who sold you the product, right?

Well, there is a way round this, and it's something I have direct experience of....

Anthony TD has bought valves in the past from Watford Valves, and tested them before they've been cryo'd (noting certain test parameters on his test equipment) and then sent them back to Watford to be cryo-treated by the supplier they use (I think it's Frozen Solid).

Then when he gets the same valves back, after having been cryo'd, he tests them again to see whether any of those parameters (you can ask him what exactly they were) have changed.

He tells me that every time he does this, there is a marked difference in the 'before & after' results, so therefore a measurable change is happening. Furthermore, when the valves are tested sonically, in equipment, they also sound different to how they did before the cryo treatment, with the cryo'd valves performing much better.

I've experienced these sonic differences myself, when comparing cryo'd and non-cryo'd Svetlana KT88s directly against each other in the Copper amp, in my own system, and the difference isn't subtle!

The cryo'd valves sound smoother and more refined, losing the slightly brightly-lit 'etched' quality one gets with brand new valves. The soundstage is wider and deeper, and tonally, all areas of the frequency range are more extended. Overall, there is simply a significant sonic improvement.

Therefore, in my experience, cryo-treating valves works, and gives some considerable sonic benefits, *BUT* you need to make sure that you know that the valves you're buying have definitely been cryo-treated in the first place, and that it's not just some marketing hype you're paying for.

Marco.

Thanks Marco, that's just the sort of info I was looking for. Very interesting stuff! :cool:

I've decided that I fancy trying some EL84M's next and Watford do some nice looking Sovtek's. So I've emailed them to get a price. :eyebrows:

EDIT: For some cryo treated ones I mean.