Look forward to it, then! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammonite Acoustics
Marco.
Look forward to it, then! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammonite Acoustics
Marco.
My 1210 mk2 is modded but compared to most, it's very much low cost with perhaps a lower or more moderate objective you might say, a technics lite.Quote:
Originally Posted by drrd
The deck with four mods, bearing, psu,platter mods and feet cost about £900 which looking back I'm glad I did it when I did because the same mods are no longer available and the alternatives available are considerably more expensive.
Add the sme 309 for £950 which has now doubled in price and I do feel a little lucky to buy these at the right time, but I agree if I was starting out now it makes absolute sense to just get the G model as a starting point because you can choose a different arm and do minor tweaks, probably all that's needed.
Fair enough :)Quote:
Originally Posted by drrd
The likes of an MN ETP platter (or similar quality aftermarket design) does improve matters considerably, fundamentally addressing the rather poor quality (and highly resonant) stock platter.Quote:
I have had experience with 1210s going back about 27 years so I have some appreciation of what they sound like stock and also with swapped arms, bearing, psu and mats. Havent heard a 1210 with an aftermarket platter though.
The other thing that in my experience massively improves the 1210, is the Paul Hynes regulation modules (regulating key parts of the circuit), used in conjunction with his superb SR7 PSU. When I fitted those modules, it took my T/T to an entirely another level, sonically, thus enabling it to compete with some of the best out there.
That (and the effect of fitting a superior platter) is something you should really hear, Russell, as I'm confident it would make you re-evaluate what the 1210 (in its earlier guise) is truly capable of.
Without doubt, that's good advice, and I'm all for the existence of a successful 'complete package' that simply works well, straight from the box, without the need for any faffing about. I do hear you about the motor system, which intrigues me.Quote:
I've kept the SME V I had on my old 1210 and put it in the 1200G so I'm not against modding :) I just think none of the mods really addressed the issues that Technics themselves have addressed in redesigning the motor system. The 1200G sounds simply more stable and sorted. Only my opinion but I would recommend people hear one before investing heavily in a 1210 these days, especially as 1210s cost so much now.
In that respect, I wonder if all the mods I've carried out to my 1210 (MN bearing, platter and Paul Hynes stuff) could be transferred to the 1200G?
Because if I heard one, and considered that the motor was superior (even if my modded 1210 outperformed it with its 'inferior' one), I'd simply buy a 1200G, and then fit all the existing mods to it, as potentially I could end up having the best of both worlds! :cool:
Marco.
:worthless:
This thread is worthless without a bake-off!
I would be interested to hear the results of a comparison....
Lol - I'm sure one will take place in due course :)
Marco.
What are the 'issues' Technics have addressed with the new 1200G ?
I'm curious as a number of the previous posts have made reference to that and I was always under the impression that the 12XX's main strength / quality was/is its motor system :scratch:
I can understand a change of design approach as is generally the case with 'new models / versions' of most things, towards 'improvement' or refinement of how something works which is different to 'issues' ?.....
Yup, claimed improvements in the new motor aside, there are no 'issues' I can hear with the motor unit in my own 1210. The sound is rock-solid and stable, at all times, with no audible 'cogging effect' (as some have claimed with the 1200/1210), rumble or wow and flutter, in any way whatsoever.
The quality of the motor unit is indeed the main strength of the Technics, so it would interesting to hear what the new motor unit brings to the party, sonically. The other thing with modded Techies, of any description, is the question of synergy [and indeed *genuinely achieving* it]....
With all the various mods available, from mats to bearings and PSUs, etc, from various manufacturers, the best sounding modded Techies will always be those where genuine synergy has been achieved, in terms not only of bringing the effect of all the mods together, symbiotically, as a musical whole, but crucially also those of the partnering tonearm and cartridge.
Essentially therefore, it's very easy to get it wrong, in some cases, despite having spent a fortune on mods, and then blame everything else for that, rather than yourself for simply having chosen the wrong combination of bits...
I've heard many rather disappointing sounding modded 1200s and 1210s, fitted with upgraded bearings, platters and PSUs, simply because the owner has selected the wrong tonearm and/or cartridge, whose sonic signature simply doesn't suit that of the T/T itself, or the mods which have been applied to it [a good example of this is Rega, or Rega-derived arms and magnesium-made SMEs, which IME aren't a good match], so the net effect ends up being somewhat musically disjointed, and sonically substandard.
In that respect, it takes both a good pair of ears and a fundamental understanding of what you're trying to achieve, from modding a 1200/1210, to finally arrive at something that's genuinely capable of delivering musical synergy:cool:
Marco.
Agree on all counts Marco. Hence like yourself I've upgraded my Techie with an understanding of what I'm actually doing and what I'm aiming to achieve rather than just 'upgrade' per seQuote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I've never in all the years I've been into hifi read about cogging 'issues relating to the 12XX, no owner sayin ' Oh the cogging problem i'm experiencing with my SL12XX !' :) as I say, never seen or heard of that.
We know it's been spouted in the past by some of the agenda driven belt drive brigade / manufacturers towards dd's in general without any real facts.
The 12XX figures for distortion / wow and flutter etc are well documented as excellent.
This wiki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technics_SL-1200 bares very positive insight about the 12XX's motor - see comments under 'Design Strengths' towards bottom page.
Another thing I found really interesting is comments under 'Rebirth' SL1200G.
*Note that it says .... complete with a microprocessor and rotary positing sensors to eliminate cogging,
Now, before the belt drive contingent jump up and and down with excitement, conveniently ignoring the well known high praise figures and positives of the 12XX's motor system.....
It's clear to me that Technics Panasonic designed the 12XX in a way that deals with any potential for cogging within the design hence it was never an issue.
All the above comment regarding the new 1200G shows us is that the new design eliminates any potential, not that there's an issue as such ;)
Good points made and I personally feel that what I have achieved with my 1210 has been worthwhile, I have to admit there was a point where I felt it wasn't performing right? But that was down to poor set up on my part.
How good is my deck I can't really say but I'm happy with what I'm hearing and being totally honest with myself then yeah I'm in a good place with it at the moment.
But regarding the new G and GR models, all the reviews I've seen and read state a fundamental improvement on any previous model as stock standard as it should be given the price difference, you would expect it to be! But the bottom line is if that is the case then it's a question of whether the mods fitted to the older deck at around the same price difference bring it up to or better or falling short of the new G model? That's what we need to know.
Only a bake off can determine that, it must be worth doing surely.
I bought my Technics SL1210Mk2 brand new many years ago when they could be purchased for around $450. It’s been a fantastic turntable and I bought it on the advice that it can be upgraded as funds allow. So I’ve done exactly that with it. My first mod was putting heat shrink on the tonearm which yielded very noticeable sonic improvements. Next I bought the Resomat acrylic platter which also was a significant upgrade. Then came the IanMac bearing and KAB thrust plate wax which elevated the sound further. And most recently I’ve gotten the KAB damper added to my turntable which also was a significant improvement. I love the looks of my turntable but also like how classic turntables have wooden plinths so I got a wood enclosure for my Technics and that really added to the aesthetic. All in, I’ve got around $850 in my turntable. I’m very satisfied with the sound and have felt that I would need to spend multiples of this amount to get an improvement.
How much of an improvement is something that has been a curiosity for me. And therefore, I’ve always wondered how my setup would compare to a high end turntable. It just so happens that a friend of mine owns a gorgeous belt drive Micro Seiki BL-91 turntable in immaculate condition. We also happen to have the same phono stage in the iFi iPhono. He has a DL103 and I have an aluminum bodied DL103R so not an exact match but relatively close. I requested that I be able to do a comparison using his setup. So first, I listened to a couple very familiar and high quality recordings on my turntable using my headphone amp (Little Dot MK3 with Amperex bugle boy tubes) and Sennheiser HD580 headphones:
Duke Ellington: Blues in Orbit
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition - Telarc
Then I went over to my friend’s house with the above two albums and my headphone amp and headphones. We hooked up the same setup on his turntable and listened. At first I was relieved that his high end turntable didn’t blow mine out of the water. However, as I listened more closely, I had to admit the soundstage was wider and a little more holographic and transparent. Also, the sound seemed to have an ease to it and float on a cloud with the Micro. While my Technics produces a sound more grounded. Both turntables easily reproduce details in the sonics.
I will say that Technics fans seem to blow things out of proportion about belt drives having pitch variations. My friend’s Micro does not have any electronic speed control and yet it was rock solid like my Technics. If there were any pitch variations, then they were so minute that they weren’t noticeable.
So, it was the first time I’ve ever been able to compare my Technics to a classic top end turntable. The Micro certainly blows my humble Technics out of the water when it comes to aesthetics! And I have to admit that the Micro was a little better/different in the sound department. But that is to be expected considering it has an SME arm that cost more than my entire turntable when it was new and unmodified! At the same time, the Technics holding its own against such a top range classic turntable is a testament to it’s quality and upgradeability for very reasonable costs. Knowing this, I feel satisfied in my Technics and that the money spent on the mods I’ve done so far were very worthwhile.