My 2019 Update Thread - My final system I think.

I think DACs are like a box of chocolates in that they are all slightly different but each one may just the one you are looking for and we all have different tastes driven by different systems and listening preferences.

I agree with Martin that Digital and DACs in particular are a done deal and manufactures are simply producing new models by either adding more features or simply changing the box! Ok there are technical differences such as FPGA, R2R or the latest and greatest Delta sigma chips but these all play about with slight variations on a theme as it were and of course there is all the other stuff surrounding the "chip" such as power supply and op amps etc which can be manipulated.

Of course manufactures are always trying to come up with new designs in order to get us to part with our money but critical listening invariably results in very little progress.


For me DACs fall mainly into two camps. Warm and full with a big soundstage or forensic and analytical. Some may straddle the two but in the end it all depends on what you value and what you are looking for? Of course folk are always seduced by the latest and greatest and if you spend loads of money on a DAC it must be the best surely?:)

I think DACs get treated like they are pickup cartridges and I'm not sure that's right.

Any system will probably have some other area it can be improved before looking at what the DAC's doing.

Like that million pound system I heard. Full DCS stack which alone must be £100K plus but system unlistenable with ripping distortion on the top end. On an audiophile plinky-plonk jazz recording!

Not the DCS doing that but why have a £100K DAC when there's clearly a bigger issue to solve?

Whasaat?
speak up young man!

:wheniwasaboy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macca

Have to admit when I got the Sony pre-amp I was a bit concerned that its DAC wouldn't be up to it, and as all inputs are digitised there's no way to bypass it.

Concerns went away with the first few bars of music!

Agree that there's always ways of pushing the envelope with the DAC technology. I'm sure that the Topping it replaced would trash it in the measurements. But I think we passed the limits of our hearing a long time back. And my hearing's not getting better with time (or any other bit of me for that matter...)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Whasaat?
speak up young man!

:wheniwasaboy:

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These bloody youngsters, always mumbling!

Its

https://i.imgur.com/IzjDVNt.jpeg

Reckon 10,000+ hrs on my preamp tubes is plenty :eek:
Left channels been getting wee bit hissy and overall volumes dropped a bit, so needed sorted.
Pre-amps lost a bit of its magic last few months

Posties been...

https://i.imgur.com/bqhVdMF.jpeg

Some special glass bottles?:)

Yeah James,
and long overdue!

Apos Ray Select 12AU7 tubes, matched pair.
New production.

https://i.imgur.com/sQkK24s.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/Rhfy1q7.jpeg

My Preamp uses valves in its input stage.
Having been stung going down the NOS rabbit hole when I ran a 300B power amp, strictly new Manufacture tubes for me.

Previous preamp tubes were Genalex Gold Lions, apparently up there with best of new production tubes?
A lot of the PS Audio amps use valves, so theres always Tube Rolling threads over on PS Audio forums.

The Apos Ray valve was getting a lot of press there, and elsewhere.
So took a punt on them.

Not the cheapest but a big step up from the Gold Lions apparently.
Shall see, plumbed them in today, getting some hours on them playing away in the background.

Amp seems to have a lot more grip straight out the box, big part of that will them just being fresh tubes, but watching with interest as more hours go on them.
Absolutely silent, which is great the hissy channel was annoying the hell out of me.


Out with the Old, in with the New. :thumbsup:

https://i.imgur.com/J2s4fkQ.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/lXIc2vr.jpeg

MUCH better
https://i.imgur.com/ljW4PqY.jpeg

That's neat that it tells you how many hours they've clocked up.

Nice tubes Gary. I actually use a combination of NOS and new manufactured tubes in my preamp. NOS in the Phono stage and new in the regulation stage. My NOS are definitely NOS and matched and come from a very good source and I could not be without them as they sound superb. However they did not have the same benefits in the regulation stage so went for new modern tubes with a good strong ouput.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macca

That's neat that it tells you how many hours they've clocked up.

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Yeah,
When you put amp in standby it switches off the tubes to preserve them, and stops the clock.

Also,
when you power the amp up from standby, the timer takes 30 secs or so to get the tubes up to temp.
Pretty cool.

Had to reset clock to zero when I put the new ones in. (almost forgot!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Nice tubes Gary. I actually use a combination of NOS and new manufactured tubes in my preamp. NOS in the Phono stage and new in the regulation stage. My NOS are definitely NOS and matched and come from a very good source and I could not be without them as they sound superb. However they did not have the same benefits in the regulation stage so went for new modern tubes with a good strong ouput.

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Getting a good source is half the battle I think,
especially with NOS valves slowly running out, and a lot of fakes out there (dont ask me how I know!)

When I had the big 300B I ran NOS signal tubes, and new production 300Bs of various types.
Its an expensive game if you want to sit at that table, happy not to worry about that now.

Thing with Apos,
Kinda like Duelund addressing and recreating a "classic" design, they talk about how the NOS market is slowly winding down, and you can never guarantee the quality (word of mouth and trust counts big time as you say)

Shooting for best of NOS quality, but with modern availability and dependability.
Thats what they say anyway...

Boys at Head-Fi like 'em?
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/apo....26778/reviews

Just struck me there…

This is my first “Posties Been” post without Grant commenting…

Feeling sad about that.
Miss the old bugger. :)

Best mate’s in palliative care at home, (His not mine) Guys mid 50’s, I'm keeping in touch/visiting every day.
so thinking about this kinda stuff I guess.

In other News...

At 50+ hrs on the valves Im starting to hear what all the fuss is about.
My 3rd valve type in this Preamp, never knew it could sound this good, glad I got there in the end.

In any valve Amp I've had, heard the difference good valves make.
These things are terrific.
ALL the valve superlatives.

Just buying a set of these valves for the preamp every year, stick a fork in it, done.
No faffing about with Nos valves, these are better.

These Valves (and preamp) were a very good call

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Best mate’s in palliative care at home, (His not mine) Guys mid 50’s, I'm keeping in touch/visiting every day.
so thinking about this kinda stuff I guess.

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Oh man that's tough, my thoughts are with you.

Please send best wishes to him/family.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Just struck me there…

This is my first “Posties Been” post without Grant commenting…

Feeling sad about that.
Miss the old bugger. :)

Best mate’s in palliative care at home, (His not mine) Guys mid 50’s, I'm keeping in touch/visiting every day.
so thinking about this kinda stuff I guess.

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Like you Gary, miss my daily interactions with Grant, a good guy, you only had to mention something that you are maybe interested in and a link would appear.

Grant was a true gentleman. Visited him at his home on a number of occasions and had a coffee and a listen to his system. Covid put a stop to that unfortunately. I saw him once or twice after things got better. Sorely missed :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firebottle

Oh man that's tough, my thoughts are with you.

Please send best wishes to him/family.

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Thanks so much Alan, appreciated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firebottle

Oh man that's tough, my thoughts are with you.

Please send best wishes to him/family.

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+1, sorry to hear mate.

Cheers Ali

Life's a bugger sometimes.
Can't take anything for granted, as easy as that is to do.

The Trick I guess, is not to miss the good stuff at the time.
It may never come again.

Yes exactly mate. Make the most of the time we have.

Aside all the important stuff previously touched on...

New Apos Ray 12AU7 valves are on Point.
Fuck Me... wow.

250 hours till they stopped getting better.
Best signal valves I've had, and in several Amps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Aside all the important stuff previously touched on...

New Apos Ray 12AU7 valves are on Point.
Fuck Me... wow.

250 hours till they stopped getting better.
Best signal valves I've had, and in several Amps

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Gary.....you got me tempted.....I might well be ordering some of these soon!? Damn.

https://apos.audio/products/ray-vacu...8dcb9ac6&_ss=r

Got a bit of a thing about tubes and they intrigue me especially as you have had such great results.

All that talk about Valves Gary sort of chimes with my latest Youtube outing.........


https://youtu.be/yWARaU_L5No

Cheers James
And apologies!

They really are that good.
Didn't know my Preamp could sound so good.
Worth every penny

Getting the kettle on, then sitting down to your latest Vid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Cheers James
And apologies!

They really are that good.
Didn't know my Preamp could sound so good.
Worth every penny

Getting the kettle on, then sitting down to your latest Vid.

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Hope it doesn't send you to sleep!:lol:

Ahh! Jim, you made another one. Now for a fresh cuppa!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

All that talk about Valves Gary sort of chimes with my latest Youtube outing.........


https://youtu.be/yWARaU_L5No

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I read somewhere (or maybe you told me) that Croft said he distilled down everything he'd learned over the years into the 7 series.

I love how stripped down those amps are.

Lots of attention to the important bits, anything you don't need in there, get rid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macca

I read somewhere (or maybe you told me) that Croft said he distilled down everything he'd learned over the years into the 7 series.

I love how stripped down those amps are.

Lots of attention to the important bits, anything you don't need in there, get rid.

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Yes like an output transformer. I believe the real reason he went OTL was that really high quality transformers that were quiet and did not “add” anything to the sound were very expensive and he wanted to keep the cost down. Glenn’s ethos was to always provide excellent performance that was affordable.

Supposedly the definition of an engineer is someone who can make for fifty pounds something that any fool can make for five hundred pounds.

I think that's what the Series 7 are - proper engineer's amps. Well built but not over-built, well designed but not over designed.

I had a 7 power amp with a Micro Basic for a while but confess they were just a bit too hair shirt for me. But then my favourite kit has always been 1980s high end Japanese. I like the overkill :) so world's apart in philosophy really.

I sold them same day they went for sale and that was while they were still in production.

Wouldn't surprise me if they get to 'collector item' status in the not so distant future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Hope it doesn't send you to sleep!:lol:

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Enjoyed that video James,
informative and entertaining as always.

Saying that,your voice does have an AMSR quality to it :)
Theres voiceover work in your future I think!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Enjoyed that video James,
informative and entertaining as always.

Saying that,your voice does have an AMSR quality to it :)
Theres voiceover work in your future I think!

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Good for bedtime viewing! :)

:lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Gary.....you got me tempted.....I might well be ordering some of these soon!? Damn.

https://apos.audio/products/ray-vacu...8dcb9ac6&_ss=r

Got a bit of a thing about tubes and they intrigue me especially as you have had such great results.

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James,
if you DO get the Apos Ray's I'd be very interested in your burn in experience?

The manual says let them get 6 hours under their belt, I heard changes even at 250 Hrs.
Sitting at 337 hours now and these things are STILL opening up.
(Nothing else has changed in my system)

Sat down to listen this morning and the sound just caught my attention as being better.
Best my Pre's ever sounded.

This is my 3rd valve type, all new production.
Was stung on NOS valves when I had the 300B power amp, never again.

Had the stock JJ's that came with it, then Genealex Gold Lions and now the Apos Rays.
Apos is quite a bit more expensive but much better sounding and worth every penny.

Just sounds like a better preamp now, component level I'd say.
Just goes to show everything matters, and everything has a BOM cost.
Thats why I enjoy modding my gear and getting more out of it.

Endgame 12AU7s, and none of the risk you take with uber expensive NOS valves.
Will do wonders for your Croft I reckon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

James,
if you DO get the Apos Ray's I'd be very interested in your burn in experience?

The manual says let them get 6 hours under their belt, I heard changes even at 250 Hrs.
Sitting at 337 hours now and these things are STILL opening up.
(Nothing else has changed in my system)

Sat down to listen this morning and the sound just caught my attention as being better.
Best my Pre's ever sounded.

This is my 3rd valve type, all new production.
Was stung on NOS valves when I had the 300B power amp, never again.

Had the stock JJ's that came with it, then Genealex Gold Lions and now the Apos Rays.
Apos is quite a bit more expensive but much better sounding and worth every penny.

Just sounds like a better preamp now, component level I'd say.
Just goes to show everything matters, and everything has a BOM cost.
Thats why I enjoy modding my gear and getting more out of it.

Endgame 12AU7s, and none of the risk you take with uber expensive NOS valves.
Will do wonders for your Croft I reckon.

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I will certainly be ordering a pair of the Select 12ax7. in the new year. I am quite excited about these as they do seem to get some good reviews around the net and I haven't tried anything different for a long while. If you managed to stay awake to the end of my video :)you may have noticed I was intending to do a separate valve rolling session with the Croft and the Apos Rays will certainly be in that mix amongst others. I have a few boxes of assorted stuff here and there with some classics and the Ray Selects will be an interesting addition I am sure.

Now where's my camera!?:lol::doh:

Another tweak today,
Improving Speaker Isolation.

I’d already had a pass at improving the way my speakers interact with the floor, they are big bass heavy floorstanders so was worth taking a look at.

https://i.imgur.com/YxNnK6f.jpg

Rather than sticking the spikes directly into the floor, I’d sat them on a set of Herbies Audio spike decoupling gliders

https://herbiesaudiolab.com/cdn/shop...g?v=1569270214
Which reduced bass boom a bit, and tightened up the focus.
Cool.

I was going to get Isoacoustics Gaia screw in feet at one point, but several folks who’s audio opinions I trust used these over the Gaia’s, and preferred them.
Much cheaper too.

Isoacoustics had a dedicated set of “carpet disks” for their isolation feet, to improve performance on thick pile carpet, given the Herbies work on the same principle I thought I’d give them a go under the Herbie pucks.

https://i.imgur.com/OCKQvcW.jpeg
Sure enough, a nice improvement again, biggest thing was the top end opened up a bit, timbre seemed better especially with ‘real’ instruments.

So that’s where I was.

I take the view that speakers and Dac are the two biggest areas for bang for buck improvement, the Dacs already done so had a look at improving the speakers again.

In the pic above, you can see the stock aluminium screw in spike feet and silver end caps?
The design idea being the metal spikes screw into the black speaker base, the metal top cap screws into the threaded bar of the spike to close off the foot.

Lot of metal on metal contact there, and despite how much I tightened them they were never truly “tight’ - a source of vibration, as insignificant as it might seem?
That it could be improved! :)

With speakers removing unwanted vibrations is the ideal, so set about working on that.
The stock aluminium feet could be swapped out, and any metal on metal contact eliminated.

Im a big fan of RDC Cones and use them elsewhere in my system, their vibration damping really works.
May be better out there, Stillpoints and the like, but not at those prices.

There is a version of the RDC cone with an attached threaded bar for screwing in to replace component feet… or in my case Speaker feet.

Also,
The screw in metal speaker foot Top Cap is more of a cosmetic thing, and is a metal on metal contact I don’t want.
So decided to toss ‘em.

Have been on a bit of a mission to dampen vibrations throughout my system, lining casework with Silentcoat damping compound and the like, and that’s what I used here.
Stock speaker spike replaced with RDC isolation cone, top cap removed and the void filled with Silentcoat damping compound.
Doing this wraps the Spike’s threaded bar in damping compound, further damping it and (hopefully) eliminating any vibration.

The Outcome?

A good one.
Soundstage improvement, there’s a depth and width that wasn’t there before.
Can really turn the volume up and there’s NO bass boom, at all.
It goes down LOW and is very tight, no concerns at all.
Rock solid musical image, wide and deep. Instrument separation and placement noticably better than before.

But overall with all the tweaks to the speakers,
including biwiring with the thickest Duelund 10 gauge tinned copper in oiled cotton cable, 2 separate +/- runs (4 in all) to each speaker:

All the Hifi stuff is great, sure.
but the net effect is the speakers just disappear when the music on.
No boom or vibration to get in the way of the music.

Its always worth spending time on small details and tweaks like these, everything matters.


https://i.imgur.com/seRPqYP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PkbA3Eo.jpg

You've stuck with those Wharfies for a long time now?

Crackin' speakers Martin.

The AMT tweeter on them is something else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Crackin' speakers Martin.

The AMT tweeter on them is something else.

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Yes I like AMT tweeters too. The Elysian 4 was one of the speakers I was considering before I went with what I did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macca

Yes I like AMT tweeters too. The Elysian 4 was one of the speakers I was considering before I went with what I did.

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The Elysian's are big boys!
Too big for my room I suspect, but they do look great.

Been following your Mash Up, the Faitals sound like they are hitting the spot.
:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

The Elysian's are big boys!
Too big for my room I suspect, but they do look great.

Been following your Mash Up, the Faitals sound like they are hitting the spot.
:thumbsup:

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Yes they are lovely - a sound you can bask in.

Your room does look quite large in the pics but I suppose they can be deceiving.

Its a fair old size my room,
but its more square shaped than yours?

The Elysians need a lot more space between them and the back wall, compared to my Evo's.
Think Conference room sized listening room ideally.

So a compromise was needed.
They WOULD work, but wouldnt be getting the full performance out them which, at the price, would be a bad idea.

Happy with my Evo's
especially wioth a few tweaks here and there. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazjam

Its a fair old size my room,
but its more square shaped than yours?

The Elysians need a lot more space between them and the back wall, compared to my Evo's.
Think Conference room sized listening room ideally.

So a compromise was needed.
They WOULD work, but wouldnt be getting the full performance out them which, at the price, would be a bad idea.

Happy with my Evo's
especially wioth a few tweaks here and there. :)

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Yes the longest dimension is 29 feet so that's helpful as the main node is down in the 20s so doesn't get excited.

I'd like a conference room size :) - or maybe I'd settle for 50% bigger than what I have - but you just don't get houses with rooms that size round here. And if you did I probably couldn't afford one anyway.

Plus for any other use except hi-fi that's too big, not very cosy if you're just sat watching telly on a winter night.

Big thread over on Head-Fi about my CD Transport the Shanling ET3

A guy there was talking about sound changes as his ET3 broke in over time, saying it compares well to his Vinyl Setup?
Cool I thought..
I knew the Shanling didnt have that typical "digital" sound to it, it’s very open and transparent and does the timbre and realism thing very well.

https://i.imgur.com/IndipXX.jpeg

and then I googled his record player...

https://images.hifiplus.com/wp-conte...3/DSCF1823.jpg

$28.5K Turntable
$19K Tonearm
$9K Cart

Bloody Nora! :eek:

Certainly "good enough" for me, especially with latest Firmware update.
The guy commenting on the Shanling being able to differentiate between source material on such a revealing system speaks to its transparency, even in an uber high end setup.

Happy with that.
Will upgrade the i2s cable I use to connect it to my Dac with at some point, be good to max out what the Shanling can do knowing it can shine in a bonkers high end system.

Cool.

INCOMING...
Bit more of a 'serious' one this time.

A last hoorah for the digital setup.

Few weeks away, putting things in place and doing my research.
Keeping speakers and Vinyl setup as is, looking at maxing out my Digital.

Been enjoying file based music from the Shanling transports USB drive so much recently, decided to up my digital game, stick a fork in it and call it done.

More news as it breaks....
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...g?format=1500w

Bought a set of these for under my MDF turntable isolation platform, will replace the stock screw in cones.
40mm DIA , 25mm tall, brushed chrome finish. Two part design, ball bearings with rubber damping.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/146226865...r=445106103306

£22 for 4, available in silver, gold and black

https://i.imgur.com/NCjhx7Q.jpeg

Design principles of these looks sound, and (most importantly :)) will look great against the piano black TT platform and plinth of the turntable

https://i.imgur.com/0peT7QW.jpg

Look good mate, good price too.

Aye,
maybe don’t have to pay silly money for something that works good!

Yup!

Incoming....

Posties been :thumbsup:

https://i.imgur.com/Ogr5eP0.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/XHXSKTC.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/bDQoxIx.jpeg

https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...23#post1389823