Go on Griffo, I dare you!
...together with the s1 transformer I bet you would wipe the floor with any DV, Koetsu, or whatever!
Printable View
Go on Griffo, I dare you!
...together with the s1 transformer I bet you would wipe the floor with any DV, Koetsu, or whatever!
I'd go for it Griffo. Like you say, the spec is very similar, and if you don't like it I'm sure you'll have no problem selling an A23 to the many DL-103 aficionados on forums, such as Scoobs! ;)
Do you know the best place to order one? If not I can point you in the right direction.
DJ decks? LOL. Come and hear one if you want, and bring your own deck with you for comparison. You might get a shock :eyebrows:
What are you using anyway these days?
Scooby-doo,
What are you doing about the A23 - are you coming for a listen, and has the bread bin got woodworm yet? :lolsign:
Marco.
Scoobs, I was VERY tempted by the DL-S1 (I got the 301ii from Audiocubes) and I do think it may end up on the end of my tonearm at sometime in the future.
Marco, I think I may be tempted by the A23. I reread Art Dudley's comments about it in Stereophile last night, and I'm very tempted.
My setup is pretty similar to what it was, Michell Orbe SE and Technoarm. audio analogue Aria has replaced the Dino+ (much more natural sounding and works a treat with the Denon) and then I've added the DL301ii and the AU300-LC trannie. The Lyra dorian is currently sleeping in it's box. I bought the DL301ii to have a play with a budget cart (cost approx £155 on an import from Audiocubes2) and even though I slightly prefer the Dorian I have to say the Denon really does sing and I can't be bothered to swap them back round, says it all about the DL301ii.
I'll have to get a listen to one of the modded SL1210 decks one of these days. I've heard a 'standard' 1200 and remained unimpressed but then sometimes prejudices are very hard to lose.
woodworm...haha
I will come up before the year is out, hopefully before you get the KAB 1210 review up.
I'm going to compare my cost options - a23 vs mc headamp. If I had the cash I'd take a punt on the denon s1 cart and transformer.
Griffo,
I was also tempted by the DL-S1, as I'm sure it would be a superb sounding cartridge and probably better than pretty much anything else that's available. Apparently, it's meant to have amazing midrange detail and sounds as sweet as nut.
The only thing that put me off was the extremely low output (which I've found can sometimes make MC cartridges sound 'weedy' even with a step-up device) and the low tracking force, which again can have this effect as well as the tendency to skip easily and collect lots of crap on the stylus. I'm just not sure it'll have the sheer 'balls' and bass weight of a 103 Pro, which is important to me. I hate anaemic sounding cartridges or ones which make vinyl sound like CD!
You should try a 103 Pro, incidentally - it's a different animal to and much more refined sounding than the standard 103, due to the superior high frequency extension of 55,000Hz (as opposed to the 45,000Hz of the standard model) and some other tweaks, and a total bargain at less than £300 including import duty and taxes. I simply haven't heard a better cartridge than it when properly optimised - even ones at three or four times the price.
As for 1210s, in standard form they are quite simply pants compared to when extensively modified. Don't even think that a KAB-modified one sounds anything remotely like a standard SL-1210! With a standard one you can hear the benefits of the superb D/D motor unit but the cheap PSU, tonearm wiring, interconnects, and horrible rubber mat kill the sound and most of the benefit the motor unit gives.
It really is completely transformed by the KAB PSU, and the (very good quality stock arm!) being fluid-damped and rewired with Cardas cable, terminated in a high quality junction box, which you can use with your favourite interconnects, and the fitting of a good quality magnesium or metal alloy headshell with high quality headshell leads such as those from Clearaudio or Cardas.
Fit the strobe disabler, replace the rubber mat with an SDS Isoplatmat and Funk Firm Achromat to stop the platter ringing like a bell and to provide the ideal interface for the record, and replace the standard counterweight balance for a soild brass one, such as those made by John (Thrunobulaxx). Then replace the standard support feet for Isonoes. Finally, install your favourite MC cartridge. With that all done you've got a seriously top-notch T/T and one which can compete at the highest level, sonically :smoking:
Seriously, I can't listen to belt-drive decks now, unless they're of the really high-mass category, because my ears instantly pick up on the coloration induced by the inferior speed stability and wow and flutter caused by the belt-drive system and/or (in many cases) low-grade PSU, particularly when listening to solo piano, and suchlike.
Basically, an SL-1210 modified as described provides a neutral platform from which to hear the characteristics of your chosen cartridge and your favourite albums in all their glory. If the cartridge has a 'warm' sonic signature, that's what you'll hear, and conversely the same if the cartridge is forward sounding or whatever. Once the weaknesses of the standard deck are eradicated the deck itself has no sonic signature of its own and acts as an open window on to the recording. There is simply little sense of a stylus tracking a plastic groove or the 'bloom', 'thickness', or curtailing of dynamics that is often associated with vinyl when compared to CD - in fact the very opposite!
Hey, I'm almost launching into a review here! :lolsign:
;)
Marco.
Marco,
Nice write up matey :), when's that review due then ;)
It's funny but when I had a DL304 many moons ago, track at about 1.2g and very low output, I did think it was a bit weedy to the point of being a little boring, especially with harder rock stuff. Moving to a Goldring Elite was much more of a fuller picture and the bass drove the music on far better than the DL304.
If I stated on a hifi forum that the Elite was a better cart than the DL304 then most would think I was a bit mad but for my music tastes it was better for a lot of the reasons you mention above.
The DL301ii has a better output at 0.4mv but still tracks very lightly at 1.4g. For me the bass performance is far better then the DL304, the midband is lovely, full of detail and tonal colour, although maybe a little inaccurate but I can live with that, and the treble very sweet but never hints at any brightness - it's an excellent cart.
I've had a DL103 for a very short period and didn't get on with it, although I did look at the PRO version, I think the better compatibility with Rega based arms is what helped me choose the DL301ii and so far no regrets.
I was hoping to have a listen to Ray70's KAB 1210 when he had a bake off earlier in the year but sdaly it hadn't been shipped when we went round there, something which was a little bit disappointing. Maybe I'll get a chance in the future to get a listen, they are certainly gaining popularity amongst forum members.
I still prefer a bouncey, belt driven deck though. I found the Orbe with the DC psu and never connected circuitry resolved many of the problems I had with my Lingoed LP12, especially with the massy platter of the Orbe.
I've got a Lenco 75 at home, bought of ebay and I had the intention of replinthing it, getting a better arm on it, replacing the idler wheel for a new one and giving that a try. that was 18 months ago and it's still on the floor in the spare room :lol:
Scoobs,
Well let's say that I promise to have the review up before Mike finishes building his phono stage! ;)Quote:
woodworm...haha
I will come up before the year is out, hopefully before you get the KAB 1210 review up.
When you say "mc headamp" do you mean active MC phono stage or an actual head amp? The latter are very thin on the ground, and of the ones available, none suit the 103. I'm a little confused because I thought you were going for a valve MM stage, and if that's the case you really need a properly matched MC step-up transformer for the 103 such as the A23 or AU-S1.Quote:
I'm going to compare my cost options - a23 vs mc headamp. If I had the cash I'd take a punt on the denon s1 cart and transformer.
You're welcome to come up any time; I just thought it would be a good idea to hear the A23, with the same deck and cartridge as yours, before you took the plunge with head amps, etc :)
Marco.
Yes I mean MC headamp, the chap building my pre-amp also makes headamps and would employ the same materials as the pre, which makes it an attractive proposition, I cant remember how much he charges for one, so it's likely to come down to cost.
Ah, I see... What you really need to do is compare his MC head amp against the A23 in your system.
I can let you borrow my A23 and send it down to you if you want to do the comparison. I can always go MM for a bit with another cartridge.
Let me know if you're interested. I just want to make sure you make the right decision, and I can't advise properly because the other chap's head amp is an unknown quantity :)
Marco.
Blimey, that's a generous offer Marco, and too good to turn down. He's waiting for V-caps to arrive from the states, so I guess it's looking like the back end of next week, before I get the pre. Maybe he can loan me a headamp, as I've been very patient with him over the last 10 weeks. Can I let you know when I'm in a position to borrow your a23? Many thanks Marco.