Surely there is room for both camps. If the Pi is dramatically improvable them why not; people spend thousands upgrading relatively cheap TT's to get the best out of them
Surely there is room for both camps. If the Pi is dramatically improvable them why not; people spend thousands upgrading relatively cheap TT's to get the best out of them
Precisely, which is why I mentioned the Techy: a T/T that can be bought second-hand for a few hundred quid, but with judicious modifying, turned into a veritable giant-killer.
I see the exact same thing with the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC, which is why that in time it will turn into another AoS 'SPPV favourite', for folks with discerning ears, keen to get the biggest bang for their buck [count me in] :)
Plenty of people are also happy using stock Techies, and no doubt also stock RPis, but the sonic potential is there in both items to be exploited by those with the vision and wherewithal to do so (or not, as the case may be). Happy days, I say! :cool:
Marco.
+1 ~£500 is hardly SPPV Marco and how much will the second phase of the RPi PSU cost. This is nothing like modifying the Techie, there's no mechanical element to it and it's a huge stretch of the imagination to think ultra low noise PSUs will make anywhere as much difference as tweaking the anti-alias filters and slopes or even using a better implemented DAC than the PCM5122 in the first place..Quote:
Originally Posted by Canetoad
We'll just have to agree to disagree then, Neal.Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
For me, it's this simple...
Linn Akurate DS (which I've heard on numerous occasions) = £4.5k. RPi/IQ-Audio DAC + Paul Hynes SR3DR PSU (which I use, and pisses all over the former) = £700
Saving = £3800.
Therefore, RPi/IQ-Audio DAC + SR3DR PSU = high-end music streaming 'on the cheap' [certainly compared with the above], so what's not to like?? :)
The comparison with the Techy is quite simply in terms of it, when judiciously modified, outperforming acknowledged 'high-end' T/Ts, at many times the price. In that respect, the RPi (as outlined above) does *precisely* the same thing to acknowledged 'high-end' music streamers. Simples! :cool:
Which bit of that are you not getting?
Marco.
Oh, and to answer that, a damn sight less than the £3800 change I've got left over, from not having bought a Linn Akurate DS (or similar example of computer audio 'badge-fi')!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
Marco.
I could ask you the same question. Just because the Linn is 4.5K doesn't make this PSU SPPV, I think your idea of SPPV is very different to the rest of us. An LDA PSU at less cost is as equally proficient at supplying a clean regulated 5v and Stan has been including ultra low noise supplies and filtering inside his DACs for a while now...now that is SPPV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Perhaps a little perspective is required on the perceived value of the Rpi, Pi-dac and SR3DR power supply.
The RPi was designed for educational purposes, at least initially, and the concept taken on board by the major electronics distributors, allowing a massive market potential from the start. Because of this, development costs and business overhead costs can be spread over many tens of thousands of sales. Economy of scale, allowing manufacture in the far east, plus the originator’s charitable stance, have provided a stripped down basic computer motherboard at a very low cost indeed.
A nice side effect of the minimalist design of this motherboard is that it has the ability to process audio data streams in a benign way that allows very good audio performance. Products with this price/ability equation are in fact quite rare.
Similarly, the Pi-dac has been designed with a quality Burr Brown DAC chip for relatively low cost and the whole package creates an audio streamer of high performance level as standard.
The standard power supply for the Rpi is a switching power supply because this allows the required performance level for general computing operations. Low cost switching power supplies are generally less than ideal for audio processing systems as, in my experience, they can be quite noisy, have a relatively high, non-linear output impedance with frequency and have poor transient response and settling time when dealing with high frequency data processing systems, all of which are parameters that affect sound quality adversely. That said the standard power supply does give reasonable audio performance especially when the cost is considered and this may be entirely satisfactory for many.
However there are those of us who want better performance than is available with the stock kit and a power supply upgrade in an obvious choice to begin an upgrade path, as it can give a considerable reward when done well.
There are many options of power supply upgrade from very basic to seriously engineered offerings by a number of designers. A basic linear regulated power supply using an LM317 type regulator should offer some improvement over the stock switching power supply, but an LM317 is an industrial component and it has it’s limitations when used for audio equipment. In my experience, no matter what you do to an LM317 it will not elevate the performance into the highest level for audio equipment. This is a shame as it is a cheap component and it allows the production of a relatively low cost power supply.
To get performance into the high-end a much more advanced design is necessary. Taking performance to the highest level in any field requires time and costs money for development and this cost has to be spread over the number of sales. The material cost of the resultant design will also be significantly higher. Add the business operating costs to the equation and the cost of provision is now at a level where only keen enthusiasts will consider a purchase. Economy of scale is severely restricted under these circumstances as the product is hand built one at a time. People also need wages and some profit is also necessary to ensure further development. This is nothing new and it has been discussed before on the forum.
In essence, it is your choice whether you are prepared to accept a basic performance level in your system, or whether you want to pursue a higher level of performance, albeit at higher cost. I am not forcing anyone, in any way, which product to buy, just providing an option I would be happy with in my own system, at a cost that is viable for a small business, manufacturing in the UK, to provide. My standards are very high, so you will not find me offering a poor value.
Regards
Paul
Neal,
As you have not had the experience of using the SR3DR and comparing it to an LDA power supply, I would suggest you are not qualified to make a judgement on the relative performance of the two power supplies.
Regards
Paul
You can suggest all you want Paul but I can make a judgment on what I feel is true SPPV. I take it you've compared the SR3DR to the LDA supply, would you care to provide details on the relative performance of the two supplies?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hynes
Neal,
Without real time experience of the SR3DR you can only make an un-informed guess as to whether it offers value for money.
You can, of course, make a valid judgement on what you would be prepared to spend your money on and that is fine.
I have no idea how the SR3DR performs against any of the LDA power supplies and, consequently, I would not presume to pass judgement on whether the LDA power supplies are value for money, or whether they are better or worse than the SR3DR.
Regards
Paul