It is more expensive to make as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by icehockeyboy
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It is more expensive to make as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by icehockeyboy
This is spot for me.
actually thinking on about it I think the term semi passive could infer to many thats its not as good as it could be ie fully passive would be technically better. How about removing the term semi/fully all together and just leave it as passive
this would have the added benefit of making the text length shorter and not extending outside the width of the main body of the Bushmaster text
Hi Tiago
Please would you go to the Welcome area and introduce yourself before posting any further? This was requested in your activation e-mail. Thank you.
I think it might be best to leave "passive" off the front panel where it might be mis-understood.
The term can be used in the advertising and the manual where it can be explained.
And the less words on the panel, the better.
As mentioned before on a couple of occasions the front fascia is capable of being swapped over. Since it will take some time to get any new text layout from design to production print I shall keep in mind that early buyers of the Bushmaster may wish to try upgrade their fascia with a new look one.
Stanley,
please allow me to ask an important question: Is is possible to slightly change the vertical positions of the various elements on the front face, or are there any technical or production related issues which prevent doing this?
From a pure aesthetical point of view I highly would appreciate if these elements were aligned in a more pleasing way.
Kind regards,
Werner.
The location and positioning of the different parts are dictated by the clearance and height of the mounting position on the PCB. So it is impossible to move the holes of the power switch, source select, headphone socket,and volume control and higher or lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner Berghofer
It is possible to move the LEDs higher, but not lower.
Repositioning of the holes for the power, source, headphone, volume along the horizontal plane is possible, but one reason for their location is tied to safety, emission approval and noise rejection. So you can't have the headphone socket or volume control too close to the power switch. And you can't have the LEDs too close to the volume control for noise rejection reason.
Of course, any frontal layout change would dictate a complete new PCB layout and CE/EMC certification.
Stan,
I see, thanks a lot for your answer. Stay tuned for more within the next 24 hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
Werner.
+1. No more posts elsewhere until you have done that, please!Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
The silver version undoubtedly looks classier:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/799/silver6c.jpg
...and even though the 'coloured-in' on/off knob looks shite, it still looks better than the black one, so just imagine what it'd look like if the job were done properly! ;)
Please do consider this, Stan, as visually, it makes a big difference. You want brushed silver/aluminium on both knobs. Either that, or black on both knobs. It's gotta be one or the other, dude...
Marco.
Agree the power button would look better in silver, and the idea of all blue LEDs really appeals too.
I think the blocky 'Caiman' like font in the last few pics is a big improvement on the rounded sans serif in the original design, but still feel that it isn't quite right as it has a slightly comic-font feel. You can't go past a variation on a straight edged sans serif like Helvetica. Most (not all) logos you see are some variation on this - be it light, bold, italic, condensed - because it just looks serious and classy. 27 out of 34 below on a quick count.
http://www.cvilleav.com/siteimages/avadbrandlogos.jpg
I also think, with respect, that the Beresford logo would benefit from a refresh - even if you are wedded to the font choice Stan I think it will look better without the rounded rectangle - see below...
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmaster_no_semi.jpg
... though there are nicer similar looking fonts. ;)
Otherwise, of all the designs that have been posted, I like the 'less is more' ones best. It's looking a bit busy again I think.
Oh, and the power button would look better with a flat face rather than rounded!
Fascinating to part be of the discussion. Thanks Stan. :)
It probably doesn't need saying but I'll say it anyway :lol: : -
It is said that the camel resulted from a committee trying to design a horse. ;) .
Dave.
The Elephant: a mouse built to government specifications.
I agree about the box round "Beresford", and about the unatractive font.
What similar fonts had you in mind, Jamtoast?
The name of the font and "Beresford" displayed it it would be great.
Based on the true dimensions of the device. The elements on the front panel all remain on their original positions.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_text.gif
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_icons.gif
Excellent Werner.
My impression is that the font size is just that bit too large...
BW
Richard
Very nice, Werner, and now I find myself swinging towards the symbolic version.
Has anyone wondered at how all European cars use symbols virtually throughout the dashboard but American cars mostly use words?
Very nice Werner,
The first one is very clear. I like the layout and fonts a lot, and the way that "24bit/192 kHz DAC" looks like a superscript to "Bushmaster". That works really well.
I'm not sure that the second one with symbols works, but an interesting take on things none-the-less.
Both versions look quite pleasing.
But what about leaving out the 24/192 KHz DAC and put Bushmaster back above the volume control and in a slightly smaller font? I tried putting text above the headphone socket before but it never looked visually "touching" on items of a small width.
Richard,
yes, that may be right. Now I changed it from 12 to 10 point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonky
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_text_10pt.gif
Thanks a lot,
Werner.
Stanley,
I tried this already, but I didn’t like it. The word “Bushmaster” would be very close to the upper edge, in my opinion really too close. “White space” is an important part of type and graphic design.Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
The volume knob actually is quite big when compared to the overall height of the Bushmaster. 30 mm diameter seems to be pretty standard for volume knobs, but most gear I checked is certainly higher than 45 mm.
Kind regards,
Werner.
Looks better with the smaller font Werner :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner Berghofer
The only thing bugging me now is that while the Beresford logo & Bushmaster are on the same level, the info about the DAC just doesn't look right being at a higher level.
Everything else is nice & even :D
Just look at the Shiit units and how elegant they look, to me at any rate. Keep it plain and simple with small fonts I reckon. "We" know what this unit is, and so shall the buyers I think.
mmm... I agree. I wonder if the DAC info would now look better under the volume knob (which to my mind still looks a little too large).Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant
(Edit) The more I look at it the more I think that the 'Bushmaster' font is too large and 'thick' (if you know what I mean). "Less is More" etc
Again, thanks to all, especially Stan for allowing us all to comment on the design.
I think we're just about there...
BW
Richard
Mark,
the upper edge of these three elements is exactly at the same level, but I noticed this too. You see, the line “24 bit/192 kHz DAC” actually cannot be moved down. The only solution might be to use a smaller font size for this element and to balance the vertical position to be visually aligned with the upper edge of “Beresford” and “Bushmaster”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant
My idea was to use “24 bit/192 kHz DAC” as some kind of superscript to “Bushmaster”.
Many thanks for your comment, highly appreciated.
Werner.
David,
very, very true :-) That’s one of the reasons I like their gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/headfun.jpg
One big advantage is that Schiit places the power switches on the back of the cases. Stanley mentioned an EU recommendation that the power switch needs to be placed in an easily accessible position. I confess that the Schiit power switches are little bit more troublesome to operate.
The diameter of the Valhalla’s volume knob (an ALPS potentiometer) is exactly the same as the Bushmaster’s, but the Valhalla case is 10 mm higher.
Werner.
Keep in mind guys that the fascia is only about 45mm high, which is less than 2 inches. There is a limit to how small a font can be before it becomes next to impossible to print onto a brushed metal surface.
Stanley,
that's true, and I always kept this in mind as I created these layout variants. Thank you for pointing this out.Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
Werner.
starting to like this versionQuote:
Originally Posted by Werner Berghofer
Stan not sure about stock for two versions of panels, try to keep 50 different.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Great job Werner.
I suspect the mainly stumbling block (with respect to Stan as I understand his desire to retain it) is the Beresford logo within the round cornered rectangle.
I can totally see that Werner has lined up those three elements with top alignment but as the logo is within the aforementioned rectangle it just doesn't look aligned. So, yes it's a tricky decision. I'm sure Stan has got some great ideas from these mockups designs.
Thank you for your feedback, guys. I considered some of the valued suggestions you made.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear...text_black.gif
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear...cons_black.gif
These of course are only iterations, since I didn’t try to emulate the brushed metal surface in the vector based software I used for creating these layouts.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear...ext_silver.gif
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear...ons_silver.gif
Personally I think the “iconized” black version works best.
Werner.
Werner,
Great job! I think these are all very nice, although the coax and optical icons may be too obscure for some.
How about
1 COAX 2 and 1 OPT 2
Instead of the above and below the line
Martin,
right, and I also noticed that many American street and traffic signs are much more "wordy" then what can be seen here in Europe. One of my all-time favourites is "Peds xing" for "pedestrians crossing".Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Werner.
I try to avoid abbrevations and acronyms whenever possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by sq225917
Werner.
Alastair,
Schiit Audio uses them on their pretty well selling Bifrost DAC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alp
Werner.
Totally agree. Very simple and elegant, and what do you know - a very light square sans serif! I know I keep going on about Helvetica variants but it's no coincidence that you see them EVERYWHERE.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
I really like the icons Werner - very clean and stylish. The functions on the device are so simple that even if the meanings aren't initially apparent to some I don't think it is a major issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner Berghofer
Still not convinced on the fonts however!
Graham
I prefer the pre-Werner versions.
The triangle, however, to the right of the volume control solves a few layout problems, if there is room for it in real life.
The "Bushmaster" font is a disaster in any size. Slanted Courier is a throwback to the age of the dot matrix printer. It was far better in Helve.
The 24/192 should be under "Beresford" - and we don't need "bit" and "kHz".
The lines linking the source buttons to group them by type are unnecessary clutter.
The symbols I quite like, but does Stan think them explicit enough?
I would prefer to see the Beresford Logo lose its ring, and maybe soften its font.
I like this Werner with one caveat, I think the Bushmaster and 24bit/192khz grouping looks very awkward. The 24bit/192khz text can only work on the top edge of the fascia if it is under the Beresford logo with Bushmaster above the volume control or vice versa. One other possibility might be to place the 24bit/192khz under the volume control with Bushmaster above. With 24bit/192khz under the volume control it would sit well with the final few characters sat under the flat base of the volume wedge icon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner Berghofer
The Beresford logo should absolutely remain as it is.
Brian,
The typeface I used for "Bushmaster" is called Rockwell, and the variant is not slanted, but italic. Rockwell is a classic, proportional slab-serif font, while Courier is monospaced, and slanted is not italic. You have an excellent eye for typography.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Like any logo also the “Beresford” logo needs space to breathe. This name placed in the rounded corner rectangle must not be located too close to any other typographic element. And the brand name “Beresford” has nothing to do with a certain sampling frequency or bit resolution, which would be implied if it was placed like this. “24 bit/192 kHz” is not an additional remark appended or close to the word “Beresford”, but an appendix or superscript to “Bushmaster”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Actually I would prefer to own a 24 bit/192 kHz DAC instead of a 24/192, but to each his own. A few days ago on head-fi.org a new member asked what “16/44 audio” was. It's cool to be a knowing insider, but this does not work when omitting important parts of what this cool dude is talking about.
The lower edges of these lines introduce a very welcome horizontal axis to vertically align the word “auto” on. I also feel they pretty help to balance the unevenly placed “power” and “source” knobs on the left side and help to reduce the visual agitation. Besides this, I think they group the associated LEDs and the connection icons in a visual as well as conceptual way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Werner.
Dave,
there are only 7.5 millimeters available above and below the volume control. This in my opinion is not enough to place the model description “Bushmaster” in a pleasing and satisfying way.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
But this would introduce yet another horizontal axis, which would be vertically aligned to no other element. And it might suggest the idea that the volume control could be used to change the bit resolution or the sampling frequency. I would not place anything below the volume control except the volume icon, since the room there is very limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
It might work if the part “24 bit/192 kHz DAC” was placed aligned left below the “Bushmaster” word. Personally I think this technical specification does not need to be present at all on the front plate, but this is something Stan has to decide.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear...ns_black_1.gif
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear...ns_black_2.gif
Werner.
Ok, I have been a busy bunny this morning. Here are my re-interpretations of Werner's designs. I felt there were some positional and font changes that needed to be applied.
As much as I tried to stay with the original font for 'Bushmaster' Stan it just didn't look right next to your logo, so I have chosen AR Essence (22pt) instead. I like the swoopiness of some of the characters in this font which hint at the flow of a snake as it moves across the ground. I did try applying this font in its italicised form but it was just too much sat next to the italicised text in your logo.
The font I used for the descriptor text is Copper Plate Light (8pt italic). Unfortunately I could not employ Lower Case due to the limitations of Windows Paint which is all I have available to me.
First off is a simple adaptation of Werners original design with the new Bushmaster font to the right of Stan's logo...
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/...ext_10pt-1.jpg
Next up is my redesign including the Bushmaster logo from above and the full descriptor text including the English spelling of 'Analogue'...
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/..._10ptmk2-2.jpg
Now we have the same as above but with the US spelling of 'Analog'. Here the descriptor text shares the font colour of Stan's logo...
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/...sterFullUS.jpg
And finally we have the same layout but with a shortened version of the descriptor text...
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/...erShortDAC.jpg
The Beresford logo now lines up with the left edge of the power button keeping things neat. I have also stretched the descriptor text a touch in the final rendition to line up with the right hand edge of the 2nd COAX LED which neatens things still further. I feel the designs above demonstrate purpose and enhance Stan's aspirations for the product.
Dave,
Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
- That “Bushmaster” font is a risky choice, and placing it so near to the “Beresford” logo is not less risky.
- Why white text? I used 40 percent black for my lettering and the icons.
- The size of the “Copperplate” font is too small, the characters are too tightly spaced and barely readable. A font size of 8 point would be very difficult to print in silk screen on a brushed metal surface.
- There has to be a certain space between “24” and “bit”, as well as between “192” and “kHz”. Omitting space here is a semantic and typographic error. Although nowadays this is seen very often, in professional typography there is no space before and after the slash “/”.
- “Unfortunately I could not employ Lower Case due to the limitations of Windows Paint which is all I have available to me” — This is not a limitation of the software, but of the font. The “Copperplate” typeface is a small caps fonts by design.
Werner.
I for one much prefer Stan's original offering and really can't believe that this has run so far - Stan you appear to have the patience of a saint!
Sound quality for me every time.
Thank you Werner. I was being ironical is some places and accurate in others; and I was firing from the hip as you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner Berghofer
The font you use for "Bushmaster" is indeed slanted or oblique and not italic: the precise shape of the letter 'a' is the give-away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_type
:)
Totally agree , looks fine in original format , sound quality first for me too.
Brian.